Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#115257 Jun 23, 2014
deutscher Stolz wrote:
<quoted text>
Shakesspear was an idiot like Goethe.
Shakespeare was far from being an idiot, he was an artist in words.
The Ark

Beverly, MA

#115258 Jun 23, 2014
Were there Chihuahuas on Noah's Ark?
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#115259 Jun 23, 2014
Brian wrote:
Evolution of man from ape-like creatures is impossible
Wrong.
Brian wrote:
60 million base-pair differences in DNA between man and apes
Chimps.
Brian wrote:
Base-pairs said by evolution theory to change through random mutation – like a spelling mistake.
Not like a spelling mistake. DNA does NOT work like a written language, it is chemically based.
Brian wrote:
These are caused by radiation, chemical attack or copying errors during mitosis or meiosis. Favorable “spelling mistakes” said to be preserved in the species because they make the individual fitter and more likely to survive to breed and pass the favourable change on to the next generation. Individuals with unfavorable spelling mistakes in their DNA more likely to die before breeding.
Evolution diversion of man and apes said to have started 6million years ago.
Approx between 6-8 million.
Brian wrote:
If we assume 10 years per generation, there have been 0.6 million generations to select 60 million base-pair improvements.
Actually a generation is more like 20 - 25 years.
Brian wrote:
That’s 100 improvements per generation.
Actually we have around 125 - 175 mutations per generation. Based on these numbers we can calculate that this puts us nicely within the 6-8 MYA range.

Plus "improvements" is a subjective term. It's more accurate to simply refer to them as changes.
Brian wrote:
Each individual has only one death to die and so can only select for one improvement per generation. This means we would need at least 100x more generations than the evolutionists say we had.
Um, no, this is not correct. The 125-175 mutations you were born with are NOT limited to just 1 to be passed on to your offspring. ANY or ALL can be passed. Death has nothing to do with it, unless you die before you reproduce. In which case NONE are passed for obvious reasons.
Brian wrote:
Also for every favourable mutation there must be at least 100 unfavourable ones.
False. It's random. Most mutations are neutral.
Brian wrote:
When is the last time a random spelling mistake improved the text?
DNA is not a book.
Brian wrote:
For an unfavourable change to die out the individual must die. Apes don’t have enough babies for 100 to die for every one that lives. So the species would quickly die out.
They don't need 99 siblings. Just one needs to survive. As noted your numbers are WAY off.
Brian wrote:
If the unfavourable mutations don’t die out then the genome will slowly deteriorate not evolve. That is we would get devolution.
Devolution is a myth. The genome just changes. If it's for the better the organism will survive. If not, the organism will die. If it survives it passes on its genes. If it dies it can't, so those populations will perish leaving only the ones that survived.
Brian wrote:
Also a single small change in the genome - one base pair in a billion would be such a small change that it would be unlikely to be the reason an individual lived rather than died.
It doesn't matter, hundreds per generation accumulate. This means change.
Brian wrote:
Random chance would be a much bigger factor affecting whether they ran into a predator.
That's not chance. That's natural selection. That's NOT random.
Brian wrote:
So evolution of man from ape like creatures would not have enough time, enough progeny, enough of a driving force and if it did would actually go backwards.
False:

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/T9Q...

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#115260 Jun 23, 2014
Cali-girl20 wrote:
<quoted text>
They only say the time frame must be off. Gods one day could be 200,000 years.
We may have been made in his loving light image at the beginning and evolved into the despicable things that we are now.:)
Scientifically, events as depicted in genesis could not occur, even allowing for time machines.

Genesis is a bronze age story based on bronze age understanding, measurement and observation (science) and our understanding of the universe has moved on a bit since the days the earth was made out of nothing (read the book).

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#115261 Jun 23, 2014
The Ark wrote:
Were there on Noah's Ark?
Where were the blue whales?
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#115262 Jun 23, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
Well guess what?
Those interpretations are inaccurate, in some cases.
For example in Exodus when it was written that the Israelites crossed the "RED sea"; the correct translation is "REED sea" (as in a sea full of reads).
We cant trust you westerners to translate anything, because equity is not among your priorities.
<quoted text>
Actually, yes, it is better than that of other people's.
It is at least better than yours.
<quoted text>
Be careful not to hurt yourself.
It is a dangerous thing when YOU attempt to identify implications, remember?
Your conclusions are absurd to say the least.
So far you've got nothing but your massive fundamentalist ego to back yourself up. Considering that is utterly bereft of substance going by your entire posting history, this is why I doubt the veracity of your claims.
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
And I keep asking:
What would prove to you with 99.9% certainty that you have found "the wizard"?
Do you go out looking for evidence of evolution without having an idea of what to look for?
And we keep telling you, it's not our job to do your homework.

That is why that we can provide the evidence for evolution, but you keep playing your coy word games to avoid showing this "god" of yours even exists.

This is why you're not taken seriously.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#115263 Jun 23, 2014
The Ark wrote:
Were there Chihuahuas on Noah's Ark?

Who did you think was driving?

“Up with which, I will not put”

Since: Jul 08

Sao Paulo

#115264 Jun 23, 2014
cancer suxs wrote:
So if some god created all things then who or what created god.
God's father, duh...

“Up with which, I will not put”

Since: Jul 08

Sao Paulo

#115265 Jun 23, 2014
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
No problem. Just curious. My daughter used to work as a company consultant for SAP.
Price Waterhouse?

“I have upset the hand of god”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Threats pending

#115266 Jun 23, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
Fact is fact!
My personal attitude and mannerism does not alter fact; so if fact is your real interest, my attitude and manners would be of no consequence being trivial in nature.
Your remark alone is sufficient to indicate your stupidity.
You have yet to show that you have facts. Your simpering rants do not constitute facts that support your position. They just mark you for what you are. A FFC full of himself here to show everyone they are wrong because you say so. Your attitude is precisely why you can't see what you are shoveling and think that it is pure gold. But what comes out a horses ass is always the same no matter what the horse might think.

I admit arguing with you could be used as evidence of my possible stupidity. But look at it this way, you are getting the attention you cry and whine for so why are you complaining.

“I have upset the hand of god”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Threats pending

#115267 Jun 23, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Who did you think was driving?
Proto-Christians?

“Up with which, I will not put”

Since: Jul 08

Sao Paulo

#115268 Jun 23, 2014
deutscher Stolz wrote:
<quoted text>
All people living during WW2 are either dead or very old.
My father fought against Germany in their homeland and in France. And I had never heard him utter a single negative word against Germany.

“I have upset the hand of god”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Threats pending

#115269 Jun 23, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
Hold up!
You are not asserting anything about the bible, therefore the mention of the object is superfluous.
And you accuse me of going off the track?!!
<quoted text>
I might as well be using puppets to teach you.
Besides, models are effective in science.
<quoted text>
Quite the imagination you have.
*blows cigarette smoke in Dan's face*
I am not going off track and you don't have my ability to force me off track. It was a hypothetical question and you know it. What if someone claimed God told them that. Jeez even you can't be so stupid to try such an obvious and ham handed attack. I guess I was wrong.

You are using a puppet to teach me. You just aren't a very good teacher.

I believe you meant *blows smoke up Dan's ass*

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#115270 Jun 23, 2014
JM_Brazil wrote:
<quoted text>
Price Waterhouse?
She worked for SAP itself. She used to oversee installations of their manufacturing software.

“Up with which, I will not put”

Since: Jul 08

Sao Paulo

#115271 Jun 23, 2014
Cali-girl20 wrote:
Both are correct. God made man from the earth. Evolution says we come from the earth. Science has never disproven anything in the bible.
You don't need Science to disprove the Bible, just a little common sense. And 5 minutes.
wondering

Sunset, TX

#115272 Jun 23, 2014
proportionally more deleterious genetic variation in european than in african populations.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v451/n71...

a cornell-led study, reported in the feb. 21 issue of the journal nature, compared more than 10,000 sequenced genes from 15 african-americans and 20 european-americans. the results suggest that european populations have proportionately more harmful variations, though it is unclear what effects these variations actually may have on the overall health of europeans

http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/2008/02/m...

thoughts on this anyone?

“Up with which, I will not put”

Since: Jul 08

Sao Paulo

#115273 Jun 23, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Where were the blue whales?
If there were, the topic "wtf are WE doing here?" most likely touched upon...

“Up with which, I will not put”

Since: Jul 08

Sao Paulo

#115274 Jun 23, 2014
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
She worked for SAP itself. She used to oversee installations of their manufacturing software.
Oh, she was one of thoooose....
WONDER

Bowling Green, KY

#115275 Jun 23, 2014
Benny wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL. Charles Darwin was a racist. There's no prove that all life arose from one common ancestor. I am not surprised that the evolutionist theories are collapsing. Atheist science defend Darwinism like a religion. What a big fraud! One Hoax after another. They are so quick to announce their fake evolution discoveries, but they are not so quick to expose their mistakes and disproven conjectures.
Could the fact that Darwin was in love with his first cousin have anything to do with his rejection of God?

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#115276 Jun 23, 2014
JM_Brazil wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, she was one of thoooose....
Yep. Though "was" is the operative word.

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