Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 209986 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

“Proud Member”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

The Basket of Deplorables

#114978 Jun 21, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
What would you accept as tangible evidence, proving God existed?
<quoted text>
Relevance?
<quoted text>
And you have done differently?
Have you ever recalled anything that you did not want to recall as evidence?
What would you accept as tangible evidence, proving God existed?

Everything that could be tested has been tested many times.
It all falls short of evidence of there being one. But to further compound the weight against
the premise you can't even show any supernatural powers exist and then we have blatant obvious errors in the bible. But among the things that can and have been tested that fail.

Divinity
Prayer
Faith healing
Miracles
Supernatural power
Spirits
Demons
Possession

G/L finding something that will ring true, I know that you as his agent will have a hard time getting it to make any personal appearances, or even reveal it's power.
Try parting the sea in front of an audience , that would work.
deutscher Stolz

Lohne, Germany

#114979 Jun 21, 2014
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Other than pointing out that you just claimed that most of your fellow countymen are NOT very smart (smartest living in small cites, confined in one corner of your country), I am 3 generations removed from Emden, Germany ("Emden is a town and seaport in Lower Saxony in the northwest of Germany, on the river Ems. " -- wiki).
Thank you.
No I didn't claim it. The dumb Germans are still smart compared to non Germans and it is a fact that the dumbest Germans are living in Berlin. That doesn't mean that they are dumb compared to non Germans just compared to the other Germans in rural areas.
I am not one of the smartest Germans. I am an average smart German but I would be a genius in America.

Since: Jun 14

Location hidden

#114980 Jun 21, 2014
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
And you have not done so.
<quoted text>
I have never presented a definition of "potential" for the sake of discussion?

Ok. Choose any definition you wish and use it.
polymath257 wrote:
So you actually have no definition. Instead, you simply pick and choose whatever you like?
<quoted text>
Does it matter?

It is the the point where there is an agreement upon a particular meaning that allows discussion.

So far you have not demonstrated a will to agree with what was presented nor have you suggested anything to agree upon.
polymath257 wrote:
I prefer to actually have definitions that work.
Describe the definition that "works".

I am the only one here who uses vague terminology, remember?
polymath257 wrote:
You are starting with the assumption that something exists and choosing the properties of it as you go along. Sorry, but rational discussion doesn't work like that.
Seriously?

There is NO NEED to "choose the properties as you go along"; THE PROPERTIES APPEAR AUTOMATICALLY AS NATURAL IMPLICATIONS AFTER YOU ASSUME THE POSITIVE (THAT SOMETHING IS).

LOGIC WORKS LIKE THAT.

Have you ever done graphing and linear programming in high school math?

When you are going to test a function "f(x)"; is it not possible to observe the behavior of the function AFTER ASSUMING the domain (a range for values of x)?

How is what I'm doing much different from that?
deutscher Stolz

Lohne, Germany

#114981 Jun 21, 2014
SevenTee wrote:
<quoted text>
It is not a waste of time my German friend. In fact Biblical study has challenged the most brilliant minds that every lived throughout history.
It is human nature to search for absolute truth and absolute truths are found in the Bible. You need to be more open minded and do some serious study before you make emotional statements.
You should face the reality. The bible is a book of fairy tales.
Your body will be eaten by maggots when you are dead and your awareness will be gone.
Accept it.

A scientist would never talk about ''absolute truth" and science is much closer to the reality than any silly religion belief.

“Proud Member”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

The Basket of Deplorables

#114983 Jun 21, 2014
deutscher Stolz wrote:
<quoted text>
No I didn't claim it. The dumb Germans are still smart compared to non Germans and it is a fact that the dumbest Germans are living in Berlin. That doesn't mean that they are dumb compared to non Germans just compared to the other Germans in rural areas.
I am not one of the smartest Germans. I am an average smart German but I would be a genius in America.
Actually you will prolly be dead in America, with your attitude you will be shot or stabbed within a week Adolph.

Since: Jun 14

Location hidden

#114986 Jun 21, 2014
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
No, you fail to make distinctions that are relevant to the discussion.
You make distinctions that are irrelevant to the discussion.
polymath257 wrote:
Not all capacities are the same.
No but "capacity" is the same thing everywhere no matter how you describe it:

"capacity
k&#601;&#712;pas&# 618;ti/
noun
noun: capacity; plural noun: capacities

1.
the maximum AMOUNT that something can contain

2.
the AMOUNT that something can produce."
[https://www.google.com.jm/sea rch?q=capacity&ie=utf-8 &oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozi lla:en-US:official&client= firefox-beta&channel=sb &gws_rd=cr&ei=prilU-_u PPHlsASO1IDIDg]

CAPACITY DESCRIBES AN AMOUNT, IN WHICH EVER CONTEXT YOU PUT IT.
polymath257 wrote:

The item produced (an idea versus an individual) makes a difference in the argument.
However, it is the standard by which the production is defined or described that is being discussed.

I am suggesting that at the point where 2 or more things demonstrate an equal behavior; they can be described using equal terms.

Since: Nov 07

St. James, NY

#114987 Jun 21, 2014
SevenTee wrote:
<quoted text>
Take a look at the posters on this thread.
They are Pagans, Heathens and Anti-Christian bigots.
Therein lies the proof
So you're sampling is the maybe 6-10 regular posters in this thread, not all of whom have stated their personal religious beliefs (note, someone challenging a literal interpretation of the Bible is not necessarily Anti-Christian, or even a non-Christian).

Earlier in this thread I posted the Clergy Letter, which is a letter signed by over 12,000 Christian clergy who support Evolution and say there is no conflict between Evolution and Christianity. Are they also Pagans, Heathens and Anti-Christian bigots? Scientists the world over comprise a wide range of all political, social, philosophical and religious beliefs. Other than supporting science and accepting Evolution there is no overriding philosophy that covers all of them.

And even your sampling is off because I know that doesn't account for everyone that posts here supporting Evolution. Some simply don't participate in the religious discussions. And I, personally, have come down defending religion from particularly ardent critics (like that twit, Skeptic, man what a tool). Yes, there are posters here who take a greater zeal in criticizing religion then I am comfortable with, but perhaps if Evolution critics didn't constantly USE their religion as part of their critique, it wouldn't be in play so often. Hell, look at the German kid who was saying stuff like all religious people are stupid and only Atheists are decent, etc. Both sides jumped on him for that. If we were, as you claim, all Anti-Christian bigots, we should have been loving him.

Since: Jun 14

Location hidden

#114988 Jun 21, 2014
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
I have absolutely no idea because I have never seen a testable definition of God that wasn't essentially identifying God with the universe. Attempting to show the existence of something that isn't well defined is a waste of time and energy.
So, if *you* have a testable definition, please give it It is *your* burden because I am not attempting to show the existence of the creature in your mythology.
Observe these questions closely and attempt to answer as honestly as you can:

1. If you were looking for signs that a particular component in an electronic device controls all other components in that device and their functions; what evidence would you look for?

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Lakeland, FL

#114989 Jun 21, 2014
deutscher Stolz wrote:
<quoted text>
'Putz' is a German word but it doesn't make sense in this context. According to my dictionary 'Putz' means 'plastering' in English and the English 'putz' means 'Dödel' in German.
Yiddish. Also see "Schmuck" Both are fitting.
deutscher Stolz wrote:
Why have you been in Germany?
Helping to defend your country and mine, jackass.
deutscher Stolz wrote:
Hopefully you didn't infect my people with American sillyness.
As many as I could.
deutscher Stolz wrote:
It doesn't seem that you know Germans very well.
Far, far better than you know Americans, Bubi.
deutscher Stolz wrote:
It also depends on the region. The smartest Germans are living in the small cities in the West of Northern Germany. Namely in Lower Saxony and North Rhine-Westphalia
The dumbest Germans are living in the big cities (Berlin, Munich, Hamburg, Cologne,...).
Whatever you say. Funny how you characterize people by region. Ever notice the Albert Einstein was born in southern Germany with the stupid Germans?

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Lakeland, FL

#114990 Jun 21, 2014
deutscher Stolz wrote:
<quoted text>
No I didn't claim it. The dumb Germans are still smart compared to non Germans and it is a fact that the dumbest Germans are living in Berlin. That doesn't mean that they are dumb compared to non Germans just compared to the other Germans in rural areas.
I am not one of the smartest Germans. I am an average smart German but I would be a genius in America.
Nah. You'd just be a loud mouthed, arrogant punk.
TurkanaBoy

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#114991 Jun 21, 2014
SevenTee wrote:
<quoted text>
Proof of what? The fact is most evolutionists evangelize their belief system. The fact is most evolutionist reject creation and Judeo Christian values.
Look in the mirror you reject Christianity and religious life.
Proof that "evolutionsts" are atheists.
Are you already forgotten VERY YOUR OWN post?
NO WONDER you produce that much crap.

TELL US, what AGAIN about the "electron energy levels of light"?

STILL awaiting the answer.

Since: Nov 07

St. James, NY

#114992 Jun 21, 2014
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course you never said never, I said "never" because you never point out when I question/give my opinion to an creationists like you do when I do it a evolutionists. Now I see that as you are on a side. Which I have no problem with. I just don't have a side I stand behind or for.
"You pick more at the Evolution side" does acknowledge that you do pick on the Creation side sometimes, otherwise I would have said you only pick on the Evolution side. I never cited examples of you picking on Creationists, that is true, but you originally specifically said that I didn't acknowledge that you did.

Since: Nov 07

St. James, NY

#114993 Jun 21, 2014
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
And by saying that you are judging. Judging is a sin. So in as far as God is concerned that makes you no better than the people you speak badly of. So I fail to see your point.
There, I am pointing it out, happy now?

Since: Nov 07

St. James, NY

#114994 Jun 21, 2014
SevenTee wrote:
<quoted text>
The poster asks for proof that evolution is a belief system. The proof is in the examination of who the evolutionists are.......they are a group that believes in atheism, paganism and heathenism.
Now what is your point?
That you are wrong. Lots of Christians support Evolution, therefore the group supporting Evolution are not all atheists, pagans and heathens.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#114995 Jun 21, 2014
deutscher Stolz wrote:
<quoted text>No I didn't claim it. The dumb Germans are still smart compared to non Germans and it is a fact that the dumbest Germans are living in Berlin. That doesn't mean that they are dumb compared to non Germans just compared to the other Germans in rural areas.
I am not one of the smartest Germans. I am an average smart German but I would be a genius in America.
All evidence to the contrary.

Since: Jun 14

Location hidden

#114996 Jun 21, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God cunningly wrote:
:
What would you accept as evidence proving God existed?
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
... OK, how about a collection of synchronized pulsars, thousands of light years apart, that spell out the Hebrew YHWH as viewed from earth? Any other signature would be equally effective.
Muhu hahahahahahahahhahahahahahaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa a!
polymath257 wrote:
Or how about a string of codons in human DNA that can be interpreted as a coding of the first book of Genesis?
*hog rolls around on the floor, dying with laughter*
polymath257 wrote:
Or, if you don't like the specificity of the earth or humans in the above, how about a pattern in the cosmic background radiation that pictures the periodic table of elements?
<quoted text>
*suddenly stop laughing and looks at poly with one brow raised, quzzingly*
polymath257 wrote:
And this is exactly why we require testing. if I disagree with you, we mutually agree on a *test* that will distinguish our two positions. if you think an electron should react in one way, and I think an electron should react in another, we agree on an experiment and see how an electron actually acts. it may well be we are both wrong.
So in the cases above that you have suggested; which one of those things would be proof that God existed?

If for example you saw "synchronized pulsars, thousands of light years apart, that spell out the Hebrew YHWH as viewed from earth": would you accept that as proof of God?

I WOULDN'T.

Since: Nov 07

St. James, NY

#114997 Jun 21, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
Did I ever specifically state or suggest in any way that I myself was "not cool" with evolution?
Here is what I have a problem with:
When I ask:
If X contains all potentials, will Y be in within the potentials of X?
I receive a YES, Y will be in the potentials of X.
HOWEVER, when I make a simple substitution of a variable:
Substituting "X" with "the Almighty" (whether there is such a thing or not) and "Y" with "creation of the universe":
If the Almighty contains all potentials, will the creation of the universe be within the potentials of the Almighty?
I receive the answer: "The question is too vague" or "the terms are too vague".
Is "X" any less vague than "Almighty"?
From where I stand, there are people here who reject the idea of God, not because it is false etc; but because they simply dont feel like it.
They are only trying to use science to justify their bias.
Right, I forgot, you accept Evolution but are using this forum as a platform to debate the existence of God. My bad.

My answer would be this: they don't have to justify their belief in the non-existence of God, just as you don't have to justify your belief in His existence. If they say they arrived at their conclusion through study of science, I would accept that. And I would also accept someone who says they arrived at their belief in God through study of science. If either side said that the existence or non-existence of God can be proved with science then I would say they are full of crap. And that, right there, is the extent I am willing to discuss the existence of God because this is not the correct forum for it.

Since: Nov 07

St. James, NY

#114998 Jun 21, 2014
SevenTee wrote:
<quoted text>
Proof of what? The fact is most evolutionists evangelize their belief system. The fact is most evolutionist reject creation and Judeo Christian values.
Look in the mirror you reject Christianity and religious life.
I actually missed something in my earlier rebuttal. You were talking about the beliefs and opinions of the few people posting here on an internet forum, but my question was really what philosophical or ideological viewpoints are promoted by the Theory of Evolution itself?

Since: Nov 07

St. James, NY

#114999 Jun 21, 2014
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Nah. You'd just be a loud mouthed, arrogant punk.
Excuse me, please do not lump all of us loud mouthed arrogant punks in with that guy.

Since: Jun 14

Location hidden

#115000 Jun 21, 2014
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>*sigh*
Tha's called an axiom, defined as a statement that's so obvious that it neither requires, nor is capable of, proof.
"Things equal to the same thing are equal to each other".
PolyMAth seems to suggest that it requires proof.

Tell that to him.

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