Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 219597 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#114877 Jun 20, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
Test this empirically:
IF:
a=a;
b=b;
a=b;
THEN:
b=a
Not empirically testable. But it is an assumption (or easily proven) in some abstract systems that are used as a language to investigate empirical reality.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#114878 Jun 20, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
If X generates Y and Y is intelligent;
What is MORE RATIONAL TO ASSUME:...
a) X is intelligent
b) X is not intelligent
<quoted text>
Dodge-ball at its finest!
No, it is a simple statement that both are possibilities. Given the evidence we have for the production of intelligent species, it is clear that b is the more likely when discussing the case where Y is an intelligent species. Given the evidence that intelligent individuals are more likely to be born (produced) from intelligent individuals, a) is more likely when discussing heredity.

In general, no conclusion can be made.
HOW CAN THE IMPLICATION GO THE WRONG WAY?
If X generates Y and Y has Z;
Is it rational or irrational to conclude that X contains Z?
Since we know of many cases where this fails, it is irrational to conclude that.
YOU CANNOT PROCEED TO DESCRIBE REALITY ACCURATELY IF YOUR THOUGHT
Since there is no natural intelligence source in the universe which created intelligence; WHERE DID INTELLIGENCE COME FROM?!
Intelligence is the ability to come up with ideas that correspond with testable observations. This ability arose from the differential survival of species that are able to accurately store and interpret sensory information about their surroundings. If you want more detail, look into biology.
HOW DO YOU JUSTIFY THE CONCLUSION THAT THAT WHICH UTTERLY LACKS INTELLIGENT CAN CREATE THE ACTUALLY INTELLIGENT?
Explain why your explanation of evidence is valid.
Intelligence is not a single entity: it is a collection of abilities that arise in different amounts in different individuals and in different species. The ability to respond to an environment is present in even bacteria, which are certainly not intelligent. They cannot form ideas and do not model the environment internally. Reptiles are more able to respond to their environment, but are not typically seen as being intelligent. They seem not to form ideas, but instead react reflexively in most cases. Most mammals are much more able to model with word effectively and even plan ahead to some extent, although the degree of instinct can be unclear in many cases. Humans can model the outside world and even model the internal state of other humans. They are able to form abstract thoughts which are generalizations of specific thoughts about the outside world. That is the basis of their intelligence. And yes, they arose from species that were not intelligent.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#114879 Jun 20, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
Explained?
Explained how?
By the principle of equality, whatever arises follws directly from what was at first.
No, that is not the principle of equality. The principle of equality is simply that a=a. You can also add the other aspects of being an equivalence relation (a=b implies that b=a) and (a=b and b=c implies a=c).

But equality does not relate to causality (following from). Equality is an abstract principle and causality is a concept based upon observation which may or may not hold.
As such, in order to know what will follow when assuming anything about the world, one must include at least one FACT OR ASSUMPTION about the world.
Which is why observation is required.
The value of my conclusions are determined by the equality/consistency between the premises and the conclusion.
Which is not enough. They also need to be consistent with observation.
The moment my method of arguing is wrong, all of science becomes invalid; because I base my arguments on the principle that makes science valid.
Only in your delusions. Your arguments are, at best, incoherent claims with no actual demonstrations, and are often based on Aristotelian philosophy (which has been discarded). You have repeatedly shown a complete lack of understanding for the basis of actual science and instead think your delusions are the origin of science. They are not.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#114880 Jun 20, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
Is intelligence water?
Is intelligence electrons?
No to both. But your claimed general statement is invalidated by these examples. if you want to make a different general claim, please do so.
What is the difference between produce in the first case and produce in the other?
What is the difference between producing an idea and producing a baby? Really?
Would both products not possess intelligence, regardless of the context of "production"?
The products do, but the producers need not. keep straight which direction your claims are following.
Stick to dodge-ball.
You seem to be the one dodging. I point out where your claims are ambiguous and you fail to resolve the ambiguity. I show where your general claims fail and you don't resolve that failure. I show where your logic makes greater leaps than allowed for by rationality and you fail to fill in those gaps.
But assembles it by what standard or principle?
Is whatever assembles automatically intelligent, regardless of its nature?
No. And I have presented examples to the contrary.
Intelligence can be reduced to a single general component; EQUITY.
Garbage.
*puts cigarette between lips and turns to a group of people who practice occult arts and waves, shouting:*
OK FOLKS BREAK OUT THE CRYSTAL BALLS, CANDLES, INCENSES, INCANTATION SCRIPTS AND THE WHOLE WORKS.
WE ARE OFFICIALLY IN BUSINESS!!!!
*turns to poly and asks*
Wanna-cracker?
Have you ever studied quantum mechanics? Do you realize that it is NOT a theory that has causality as an assumption? Do you realize that it is still a scientific theory? Do you realize that your assumptions about what is required for science are actually not required and have actually been shown to be wrong?
Quantum mechanics is not magical, but it is also not causal. We can and do obtain statistical predictions from it and those are enough to make it a science (and a very, very successful one at that).

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#114881 Jun 20, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
Yet you attack my arguments, from premises to conclusions; WITHOUT being able to prove specifically that they are wrong.
I have pointed out specific many times. You have ignored them.
All you have been able to say is: "this/that is vague, blah blah blah, Poly-wanna-cracker".
And that is where you dodge. yes, the concepts are too vague. Please give a more detailed definition.
deutscher Stolz

Osnabrück, Germany

#114882 Jun 20, 2014
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
How mu time have to spent in America, Bubi?
Is 'Bubi' an English word as well?

I haven't spent any time in America yet but I have already met Americans and I see them in the internet. Besides some of my friends have already been in America and they are telling me how dumb Americans are. They didn't tell the Americans what they really think about them. My aunt is working in Saudi-Arabia as an economist. There she has to work together with other foreigners. She says that it is the most difficult to deal with the Americans because they are paranoid and egocentric

I have often been in other countries as I have already said. Until now Germany has been the best country I have seen.
This year I am going to go to America for one year. Then I will Show the Americans how dumb they are compared to a German. Of course I don't tell it to them but I will get the best marks with no efforts. Then they will see it.

Germany for the world.
And we will win the world cup
btw you are so bad at soccer that you have a German trainer now. With the German trainer you have the chance to accomplish something at least.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#114883 Jun 20, 2014
deutscher Stolz wrote:
<quoted text>Is 'Bubi' an English word as well?

I haven't spent any time in America yet but I have already met Americans and I see them in the internet. Besides some of my friends have already been in America and they are telling me how dumb Americans are. They didn't tell the Americans what they really think about them. My aunt is working in Saudi-Arabia as an economist. There she has to work together with other foreigners. She says that it is the most difficult to deal with the Americans because they are paranoid and egocentric

I have often been in other countries as I have already said. Until now Germany has been the best country I have seen.
This year I am going to go to America for one year. Then I will Show the Americans how dumb they are compared to a German. Of course I don't tell it to them but I will get the best marks with no efforts. Then they will see it.

Germany for the world.
And we will win the world cup
btw you are so bad at soccer that you have a German trainer now. With the German trainer you have the chance to accomplish something at least.
You should begin training your anal sphincter for your pass through customs.

I recommend starting with something small. Perhaps a beer bottle (large end first) will help prepare you for your 'welcome'.

“Ask Randy From Ballwin”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

He Is A Sock Know It All

#114884 Jun 20, 2014
deutscher Stolz wrote:
<quoted text>
Is 'Bubi' an English word as well?
I haven't spent any time in America yet but I have already met Americans and I see them in the internet. Besides some of my friends have already been in America and they are telling me how dumb Americans are. They didn't tell the Americans what they really think about them. My aunt is working in Saudi-Arabia as an economist. There she has to work together with other foreigners. She says that it is the most difficult to deal with the Americans because they are paranoid and egocentric
I have often been in other countries as I have already said. Until now Germany has been the best country I have seen.
This year I am going to go to America for one year. Then I will Show the Americans how dumb they are compared to a German. Of course I don't tell it to them but I will get the best marks with no efforts. Then they will see it.
Germany for the world.
And we will win the world cup
btw you are so bad at soccer that you have a German trainer now. With the German trainer you have the chance to accomplish something at least.
Lets clear something up. Are you saying "all" Americans are stupid/dumb or just Americans in general.
deutscher Stolz

Osnabrück, Germany

#114885 Jun 20, 2014
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Lets clear something up. Are you saying "all" Americans are stupid/dumb or just Americans in general.
Americans in general are dumb. There are some exceptions.
deutscher Stolz

Osnabrück, Germany

#114886 Jun 20, 2014
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
You should begin training your anal sphincter for your pass through customs.
I recommend starting with something small. Perhaps a beer bottle (large end first) will help prepare you for your 'welcome'.
It is typical American to be mortally offended if someone is criticizing America.
TurkanaBoy

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#114887 Jun 20, 2014
Brian wrote:
Evolution of man from ape-like creatures is impossible
• 60 million base-pair differences in DNA between man and apes
As a matter of fact, it's about 90 millions. WOW, amazing isn't it?

Actually, when mutations occur, it might be small scale mutations, like point mutations, where just one base-pair nucleotide is changed. These also include insertions and deletions (together: idels). Indels can affect one nucleotide but mostly the involve more. As a matter of fact, mutations that hit one 1 to 3 base-pairs are called "very short indels".

Than we have large-scale mutations. These include deletions of chromosomal parts, complete gene duplications, translocations and inversions of chromosome parts and even loss of complete alleles.

The demarcation between small and large is 70 base-pairs.
To account for this, we don't take base-pair differences to calculate differences between species' genomes but single nucleotide differences. The single nucleotide differences between humans and chimps are 30 million ones.

As evolution assumes that speciation occurs by genetic diversion of two subpopulations of once one single species, and while we know that humans and chimpanzees are found to approximately have the same mutation rates, the total of 30 million should be dived by 2. That means a cumulated mutation size of 15 million in either of both subpopulations.

Let's count, shall we? The mutation rate in humans is about 150. For sake of argument, assume 100. In 100,000 newborns (very low, nowadays human populations produce 370,000 newborns A DAY), the mutations accumulate to 100,000 X 100 = 10,000,000 in the SPECIES' genome. Humans and chimps diverted 5 million years ago. That will be roughly 300,000 generations. 300,000 X 10,000,000 = 3,000 BILLION mutations. As the human genome counts 3.1 billion base-pairs, the total mutation rate last 5 million years has the potential to COMPLETELY change the WHOLE human genome 3,000 TIMES.

In reality this doesn't happen due to natural selection which - by differential survival and reproduction chances - only permits advantageous mutation to pass to the next generation and weeds out deleterious ones. Natural selection only retained a very meagre 15 million ones.

NEXT time you rant around here on this kind of subjects, you FIRST read a bit about it, OK?
DON'T READ this kind of stuff on creationist's website, you will be grossly misinformed.
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#114888 Jun 20, 2014
Everybody now... "Deutschland, Deutschland UBER ALLES...." etc.

Level 8

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#114889 Jun 20, 2014
deutscher Stolz wrote:
<quoted text>
Americans in general are dumb. There are some exceptions.
So, what part of murdering 11 million people was smart? Or starting two World Wars, and losing them both...Nice try dummkopf. Every country has stupid people, nice to meet you! I do enjoy the Heineken.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#114890 Jun 20, 2014
deutscher Stolz wrote:
<quoted text>It is typical American to be mortally offended if someone is criticizing America.
Yet you are offended when being associated with Nazis. You see nothing hypocritical there?

Level 8

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#114891 Jun 20, 2014
Snakes.
BECAUSE they move without limbs, snakes need robust skin that can withstand constant friction. Some species climb up rough tree trunks, while others burrow into abrasive sand. What makes the skin of a snake so durable?

Consider: The skin of snakes can differ in thickness and structure from one species to another. However, the skin of all snakes has one thing in common: It is firm on the outside and becomes progressively softer toward the inside. Why is this advantageous?“Material that has a transition from a stiff outside to a flexible inside can distribute an impacting force over a larger area,” says researcher Marie-Christin Klein. The unique structure of snake skin allows sufficient traction between body and ground for the snake to be able to move, and at the same time, it evenly distributes pressure from sharp-edged stones so that there is less damage to the skin. Durability is vital, since snakes usually shed their skin only every two to three months.

Materials with the properties of snake skin may be useful in the field of medicine—for example, in manufacturing slip-resistant and extra-durable artificial implants. Also, drive and conveyor machinery that mimics the construction of snake skin may require fewer pollutive lubricants.

What do you think? Did snake skin come about by evolution? Or was it designed?
deutscher Stolz

Osnabrück, Germany

#114892 Jun 20, 2014
Gillette wrote:
Everybody now... "Deutschland, Deutschland UBER ALLES...." etc.
I am sure that you don't know the meaning of "Deutschland, Deutschland über alles"
I give you a hint. It has nothing to do with Germany ruling over the world.
You can translate it with "Germany, Germany above all" but that doesn't give you the real meaning.
It is the same with the myth about Kennedy as he said "Ich bin ein Berliner". The first time I heard that he actually said "I am a jelly doughnut" was in an English newspaper.
English people proposed that he should say "Ich bin Berliner" but this means that he is a Berliner citizen what is wrong. "Ich bin ein Berliner" means that he is feeling with the Berliner citizens. I have to admit that his translator was good value.
Of course there is the pastry what we called "Berliner" but no German would confusing it.

“ad victoriam”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#114893 Jun 20, 2014
deutscher Stolz wrote:
<quoted text>
It is typical American to be mortally offended if someone is criticizing America.
Mortally offended? Hardly... Insults are something everyone must get used to in topix.
I see you as a child lashing out in the only ways it can.
Amusing yes but if you feel you are in any way a threat , I assure you it is a small one.
You should realize 95% of the world is filled with superstitious or uneducated people, and America hasn't cornered the market on dumb asses. Germany has a proportional share of the world idiots and assholes. But my arrogant friend you must remember , America has many firsts and is still "the" super power. Despite your envy and protests, those poor old dumb country boy red necks will be the ones that get you.

deutscher Stolz

Osnabrück, Germany

#114894 Jun 20, 2014
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Yet you are offended when being associated with Nazis. You see nothing hypocritical there?
No.
Germans have nothing to do with Nazis.
deutscher Stolz

Osnabrück, Germany

#114895 Jun 20, 2014
Naughtyrobot wrote:
<quoted text>So, what part of murdering 11 million people was smart? Or starting two World Wars, and losing them both...Nice try dummkopf. Every country has stupid people, nice to meet you! I do enjoy the Heineken.
Then tell me. How did we start WW1?
You can't answer this question because we didn't start WW1.

If you accept this then we can talk about the beginning of WW2 because it is a little bit more complicated.

btw I can understand if people are thinking that we started WW2 because it is not obvious but why the hell are people thinking that we started WW1 as well? It is obvious that we didn't start this war.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#114896 Jun 20, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Yup a big ‘G’ and a little ‘g’ oh yes and an ‘s’
There have been more than 3400+ gods worshipped in recorded history, 2700+ of them have been creator gods just like EL (your god). Even you own god book admits to some of these gods (I would not mind taking bets that you deny them though)
Your are welcome to your dream that your big g god is somehow more valid than all the other big g gods that people have dreamed about over the millennia but that makes absolutely no difference to the fact that you god is just a dream like all the others.
Wrong. The universe is not a dream, it is reality. Who then made it? The big question.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Weird Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
*add A word / drop a word* (Nov '12) 10 min SweLL GirL 16,255
Change 1 letter game! (Nov '11) 15 min SweLL GirL 10,049
When you look out your window, what do you see? (Aug '08) 58 min Lifelover 1,845
News Legless man keys car in Walmart handicapped space (Aug '09) 1 hr chris 150
News Thousands of demonstrators protest Trump in Atl... 1 hr swampmudd 1,315
Who Are You Missing Today? (Feb '12) 1 hr Lifelover 378
What turns you on ? (Aug '11) 2 hr Lifelover 2,309
Back In The Day ... for the third time! 2 hr wichita-rick 246
El's Kitchen (Feb '09) 2 hr Enzo49 71,156
A to Z songs by title or group! 2 hr Lifelover 980
What song are you listening to right now? (Apr '08) 2 hr wichita-rick 211,402
More from around the web