Evolution vs. Creation

Full story: Best of New Orleans

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.
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“I'm Your Huckleberry ”

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#114256
Jun 15, 2014
 
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't recall the question, but my position is that there is no dichotomy here. Gravity is a force (in the quantum sense) and is also a matter of curvature of space-time. Even under GR, there are gravitational waves, which propagate at the speed of light and are, essentially, curvature of space-time that is periodic in time. Under quantum mechanics, any wave-like phenomenon also has a particle aspect. The particle for gravity would be the graviton (undetected and probably not possible at the current time due to energy issues). The exchange of that particle is, in turn, the quantum aspect of the force.
<quoted text>
Yes, but the question was originally whether Newton's law of gravity is correct or not. It isn't. Newton was wrong in detail. It may well be (very likely) that Einstein was also. Both are probably just approximations, but Newton is a poorer approximation.
Hey Poly according to general theory of relativity gravity is always attractive force. If gravity is always an attractive force why the universe not only expanding but also the expansion rate of the universe is actually increasing. Is it due to not enough mass/gravity in the universe to stop the expansion or that the forces pushing the universe apart, resulting from the Big Bang, are greater than the gravitational attraction? Or is it neither and something completely different?

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#114257
Jun 15, 2014
 
Aura Mytha wrote:
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You would need to grasp the implications of chemical evolution and molecular biology to see this.
I never meant that. There was an error in that post.

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#114258
Jun 15, 2014
 
replaytime wrote:
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There no explanation on where reproduction came from. At best all that can be said is it came with first life, existed within the first life when it became to life.. It cannot be a product of mutations and evolution because something has to reproduce, either asexually or sexually to have those mutations happen and pass them on.
And again, without that sexual reproduction, there is no asexual reproduction.

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#114259
Jun 15, 2014
 
deutscher Stolz wrote:
<quoted text>
It is not trivial math.
Business men are criminals. They earn too much for their trivial work. Your work is just consuming time but doesn't need a high IQ. The only real work is done by scientists. Only scientists know how the world really works.
Lol, yeah, I remember when I was 18 and naïve...

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#114260
Jun 15, 2014
 
deutscher Stolz wrote:
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You said it. The NAZIS. The NAZIS are not the GERMANS.
Do you deny that the vast majority of Nazis during WWII were German citizens?

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#114261
Jun 15, 2014
 
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> And again, without that sexual reproduction, there is no asexual reproduction.
I disagree here. Asexually only requires one organism where as sexually requires a male and female organism. But the ability to reproduce could not have came from a mutation through evolution for said mutation would have had to been passed on after reproduction. So again at best what can be said is that reproduction abilities already existed in the first life (It already possessed reproduction abilities when it came to life).

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#114262
Jun 15, 2014
 

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The Dude wrote:
Now, if you want to claim there's an intelligence behind these mechanisms, then by all means go ahead.

And then demonstrate such by providing the mechanisms AND evidence for them.
THE NATURE OF REALITY:

1. "... reality includes everything that is and has been, whether or not it is observable or comprehensible. A still more broad definition includes everything that has existed, exists, or will exist." [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Reality]

THE LIMITS OF SCIENTIFIC METHOD:

2. "The scientific method is limited to what can be observed with the five senses. "[http://www.apologeticsp ress.org/apcontent.aspx?catego ry=9&article=315]

Therefore even if I could not "demonstrate such by providing the mechanisms AND evidence for them"; that would not alter the fact of their existence.

From here on I will begin to ascertain whether it is that you are incapable of understanding, or you cover your eyes and claim that nothing exists since you cannot see:

***Since some real phenomena are not observable or comprehensible; you cannot conclude on the absence or non-existence of a thing based on the fact that you cannot observe, measure or demonstrate it.

Furthermore, whereas the things in reality (which includes the detectable and undetectable) are continually interacting; it will always be questionable whether the causes one identifies are sufficient to bring about an effect by themselves, without the influence of undetected factors.

THE RELIABILITY OF DEDUCTIVE REASONING AND OBSERVATION ITSELF:

"Deductive reasoning, also deductive logic or logical deduction or, informally, "top-down" logic, is the process of REASONING FROM one or more general statements (PREMISES) TO REACH A LOGICALLY CERTAIN CONCLUSION..." [Wikipedia.com]

"Sometimes the NATURE of an investigation makes a controlled experiment impossible. For example, the earth's core is surrounded by thousands of meters of rock. Under such circumstances, A HYPOTHESIS MAY BE TESTED BY MAKING DETAILED OBSERVATION." [P638, Appendix, Holt Science and Technology, North Carolina, Grade 7]

***Therefore the failure or inability to create or suggest a controlled experiment to validate a claim or test a hypothesis, NEVER immediately means that the subject the hypothesis attempts to describe is non-existent or incapable of being proven or validated.

THE VALUE OF DEDUCTIVE REASONING IN SCIENCE:

"Deductive reasoning is a basic form of valid reasoning. Deductive reasoning, or deduction, starts out with a general statement, or hypothesis, and examines the possibilities to reach a specific, logical conclusion. The scientific method uses deduction to test hypotheses and theories." [http://www.livescience.com/21 569-deduction-vs-induction.htm l]

**********
IS VALID KNOWLEDGE OF SCIENTIFIC NATURE POSSIBLE WITHOUT EXPERIMENTATION AND/OR OBSERVATION:

"...A thought experiment might also be used to test the hypothesis as well." [Wikipedia.com]

EVIDENCE OF THE VALUE OF DEDUCTION OR THOUGHT ITSELF IN SCIENCE:

"There are many different kinds of thought experiments. All thought experiments, however, employ a methodology that is a priori, rather than a posteriori, in that they do not proceed by observation or physical experiment... Thought experiments have been used in a variety of fields, including philosophy, law, physics, and mathematics.[Wikipedia.com]
deutscher Stolz

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#114264
Jun 15, 2014
 
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> As long as the name, " God ", is obtainable to date, it means that, he is real. Without your parents or creators, you are nothing.
hahahaha
Do you know the "Gebrüder Grimm"? Maybe you would be more successful as a story-teller like "Gebrüder Grimm".
deutscher Stolz

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#114265
Jun 15, 2014
 
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you deny that the vast majority of Nazis during WWII were German citizens?
The vast majority of Nazis were Germans but the vast majority of Germans were not Nazis.

Besides the Nazis were traitors. Every real German patriot hates Nazis because they were the worst for our country.

It seems that you (I mean the plural form of 'you'. One of the worst thing in English is that you don't differ between 'you singular' and 'you plural')
don't get why I hate America so much.
Maybe I should tell you something about the secret American plans during the cold war. Would they execute these plans Germany would be a nuclear dessert today just for holding the Russians back. For example the Americans planned to blow up some of the German nuclear power plants. Then the wind should blow the nuclear waste to the Russian soldiers. Million innocent German civilians would die as well.
My father saw these awful plans as he was in the 'Bundeswehr'(it was in the late 70th). Actually he wasn't allowed to see them. It was mere chance.

The very fact that these plans existed tells what kind of people you are.
There are many other crimes. For example Guantanamo. An innocent German was prisoned and tortured there for years.
deutscher Stolz

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#114266
Jun 15, 2014
 
JM_Brazil wrote:
<quoted text>
Lol, yeah, I remember when I was 18 and naïve...
It seems that I know more about your job than you.

The most criminal people on earth are hedge fond manager.
I hate our economy system. It doesn't work. First one shouldn't allow the money market business. It is totally dumb.

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#114267
Jun 15, 2014
 

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replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey Poly according to general theory of relativity gravity is always attractive force. If gravity is always an attractive force why the universe not only expanding but also the expansion rate of the universe is actually increasing. Is it due to not enough mass/gravity in the universe to stop the expansion or that the forces pushing the universe apart, resulting from the Big Bang, are greater than the gravitational attraction? Or is it neither and something completely different?
Well, if the density of matter/energy were higher, the expansion could be reversed. So there is a sense in which you could say that there isn't enough to stop the expansion.

More to the point, though, is that when Einstein's equations are applied to a situation where space itself (a vacuum) has an energy density, it turns out that the expansion rate will increase. Essentially, such a situation provides a pressure that tends to accelerate the expansion. This is called either dark energy or the cosmological constant depending on your interpretation of the equations and whether you think there is something going on at the particle level or not.

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#114268
Jun 15, 2014
 
deutscher Stolz wrote:
<quoted text>
The vast majority of Nazis were Germans but the vast majority of Germans were not Nazis.
OK, let's apply that same logic to your example below;
deutscher Stolz wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe I should tell you something about the secret American plans during the cold war. Would they execute these plans Germany would be a nuclear dessert today just for holding the Russians back. For example the Americans planned to blow up some of the German nuclear power plants. Then the wind should blow the nuclear waste to the Russian soldiers. Million innocent German civilians would die as well...
The vast majority of US military officials are American, but the vast majority of Americans are not US Military officials.

Weeding through the conspiracies and the rhetoric, there may be some outlandish evil plans that some Gvt. organization concocted and perhaps presented as an idea, but did these happen? No, because fortunately those in power are not fools and understand the consequences. I could easily suggest sending over squirrels with contaminated nuts to Germany to "rid the world of evil", but would it happen? Of course not. There are checks and balances. You've really got to get your head out of the textbooks and get out in the real world.

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#114269
Jun 15, 2014
 
deutscher Stolz wrote:
<quoted text>
The vast majority of Nazis were Germans but the vast majority of Germans were not Nazis.
Besides the Nazis were traitors. Every real German patriot hates Nazis because they were the worst for our country.
It seems that you (I mean the plural form of 'you'. One of the worst thing in English is that you don't differ between 'you singular' and 'you plural')
don't get why I hate America so much.
Maybe I should tell you something about the secret American plans during the cold war. Would they execute these plans Germany would be a nuclear dessert today just for holding the Russians back. For example the Americans planned to blow up some of the German nuclear power plants. Then the wind should blow the nuclear waste to the Russian soldiers. Million innocent German civilians would die as well.
My father saw these awful plans as he was in the 'Bundeswehr'(it was in the late 70th). Actually he wasn't allowed to see them. It was mere chance.
The very fact that these plans existed tells what kind of people you are.
There are many other crimes. For example Guantanamo. An innocent German was prisoned and tortured there for years.
I realize that during WW2 that only about 10% of Germans were members of the Nazi party. BUT virtually EVERY Nazi was a German citizen.

You do this so you can absolve personal responsibility for the actions of Germans during WWII.

I understand. BUT THEN...

THEN you go on a rant about "secret American plans" to blow up German nuclear plants, etc as a reason why "hate Americans". Even though far FEWER number of Americans had any input as to those "secret plans" in the first place, and the fact that THIS PLAN WAS NEVER PUT INTO ACTION....as opposed to the "Final Solution".

Same with Guantanamo.

Who was this German citizen? Name? Reason for his being brought to Guantanamo?

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#114270
Jun 15, 2014
 
deutscher Stolz wrote:
<quoted text>
It seems that I know more about your job than you.
Ok. But I don't think you do.
deutscher Stolz wrote:
<quoted text>
The most criminal people on earth are hedge fond manager.
I hate our economy system. It doesn't work. First one shouldn't allow the money market business. It is totally dumb.
I have nothing to do with the financial sector. I'm purely technology. Ironically, German technology.
Again, get your head out of the textbook, and (as my father would say) get out there and blow the stink off ya.

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#114271
Jun 15, 2014
 
deutscher Stolz wrote:
<quoted text>
The vast majority of Nazis were Germans but the vast majority of Germans were not Nazis.
That makes complete sense .ie: say there where 500,000 Nazis and 80% of them were German but the German population was 2,500,000. I see your point but everyone ties Nazis to Germans.

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#114272
Jun 15, 2014
 
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, if the density of matter/energy were higher, the expansion could be reversed. So there is a sense in which you could say that there isn't enough to stop the expansion.
More to the point, though, is that when Einstein's equations are applied to a situation where space itself (a vacuum) has an energy density, it turns out that the expansion rate will increase. Essentially, such a situation provides a pressure that tends to accelerate the expansion. This is called either dark energy or the cosmological constant depending on your interpretation of the equations and whether you think there is something going on at the particle level or not.
Thanks Poly. I follow most of what you say and I agree it is good for now with what we know but I still think we have a long ways to go and many things will change as we go, including our thoughts on gravity
.

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#114273
Jun 15, 2014
 

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OK another question: to my knowledge every person born has 150 or more mutations. Now mutations happen to everyone and that is a fact. Should it not be said the "random effects” of mutations (everyone experiences mutations) are what are responsible for the new traits instead of just saying "random mutations" are what is responsible? We really don’t even know what mutations causes what trait/effect or how it even really works. In my opinion! After all it is the random effect of the mutation not the mutation itself. <<<(if that makes sense to anyone)

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#114274
Jun 15, 2014
 
Let mead to my past post a little.

The mutations that are helpful (less hair, more hair, walking, standing, flying, going from land to water and going to water to land) all for survival benefits that were environmentally caused,, one could say that they almost had to be planned.

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#114275
Jun 15, 2014
 
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
That makes complete sense .ie: say there where 500,000 Nazis and 80% of them were German but the German population was 2,500,000. I see your point but everyone ties Nazis to Germans.
Does it matter?

Since they didnt straight resist the Nazis and remove them from the country in a demonstration of intolerance; they all might as well have been Nazis.

Those who are not against X are arguable with X.

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#114276
Jun 15, 2014
 
deutscher Stolz wrote:
<quoted text>
The vast majority of Nazis were Germans but the vast majority of Germans were not Nazis.
Besides the Nazis were traitors. Every real German patriot hates Nazis because they were the worst for our country.
It seems that you (I mean the plural form of 'you'. One of the worst thing in English is that you don't differ between 'you singular' and 'you plural')
don't get why I hate America so much.
Maybe I should tell you something about the secret American plans during the cold war. Would they execute these plans Germany would be a nuclear dessert today just for holding the Russians back. For example the Americans planned to blow up some of the German nuclear power plants. Then the wind should blow the nuclear waste to the Russian soldiers. Million innocent German civilians would die as well.
My father saw these awful plans as he was in the 'Bundeswehr'(it was in the late 70th). Actually he wasn't allowed to see them. It was mere chance.
The very fact that these plans existed tells what kind of people you are.
There are many other crimes. For example Guantanamo. An innocent German was prisoned and tortured there for years.
You are wrong, your countrymen and women were not traitors.
They were simply led to disaster by probably the worst leader in modern history.
They some of them were bad people, but the fault is in the few and not the many.
I know some who were participants , but many were victims as much as Jews were.
The guilty are those who held SS , Gestapo titles and were actively in command.
We do not lay blame on people who only followed orders in fear of their lives.

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