Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 199542 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#114444 Jun 17, 2014
Discord wrote:
I will leave it to you to dwell on the irony of a German being taken in by propaganda.
Indeed.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#114445 Jun 17, 2014
deutscher Stolz wrote:
<quoted text>
German creationists are the exception.
American creationists are the rule.
Never met a German creationist. Even though I am surrounded by Germans my whole life.
That is not honest of you.

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#114446 Jun 17, 2014
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Exactly. That was what i was trying to explain to the Dude. Look it up!
They are really not seperate, they are part of the other.
Can you not read? What is exact is that I wrote “Creation and evolution are two separate concepts.”

So where do you understand “two separate concepts” is meaning the same as “they are part of the other”?

Also you claimed “reproduction is a process of creation”. Note the word order.

So in fact not exactly but 100% opposite.

“Ask Randy From Ballwin”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

He Is A Sock Know It All

#114447 Jun 17, 2014
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
I see that I was correct in my previous post.
Those articles do not say that a world wide flood is possible.
You did not understand what you read. Or else you read articles that were simplified too much.
I think the one with a reading problem is you. As I said and will say again(pay attention this time) "but to be sure there is no misunderstanding here, none of that means a world wide flood is/was possible. All I am saying is there is more water under us than we ever thought

“Ask Randy From Ballwin”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

He Is A Sock Know It All

#114448 Jun 17, 2014
TurkanaBoy wrote:
<quoted text>
I quote the second article: "The water molecules are actually stuck in the mineral structure of the rock," Wysession explained. "As you heat this up, it eventually dehydrates. It's like taking clay and firing it to get all the water out."
What would happen, do you think, if some unknown heating event of parts of the mantle as big as a complete continent, is dehydrating the pertained rocks to release their water in a tempo of a few days as required by the Genesis account of the flood?
How much water? Genesis says the world was covered with water, covering all the mountains, even exceeding by 15 cubits. Simple calculation learns that this needs 3 times the total amount of current surface water on the planet EXTRA.
All that water has to originate from the mantle.
Now, the question again: what do you think will happen when 3 times the total amount of current water will be released in the form of steam of several hundreds degree Celsius?
Well, trust me, calculations have shown that this will basically cause the atmosphere to heat up to a degree that dealing with the water by building the arc is the LEAST of Noah's problems. He basically will cook and choke to death.
I have a nice riddle for you.
Now let's imagine:
1. creationists solved all these problems: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark... ,
2. the stratified fossil record isn't there,
3. the geological column isn't there,
4. Noah and his family and all the animals on the arc did survive the cooking and choking event and Noah released all the animals from the arc in the aftermath of the flood.
Here's the riddle:
- of each "kind" there were two specimen, a female and a male
- there were herbivores and carnivores
- there was no plant life because all plant life is killed of when inundated in kilometres of salt water for months
- hence all herbivores starve to death
- as far they manage to live, they will be eaten by one of the carnivores
- every time a random carnivore eats one herbivore (or another carnivore), it eats either the one male specimen or the female of that species. From that moment that species got extinct.
Get the problem?
Already excited in anticipation of your answer.
Yours sincerely, wasting away......
as I said"but to be sure there is no misunderstanding here, none of that means a world wide flood is/was possible. All I am saying is there is more water under us than we ever thought.

I can see you have not be here for a bit. So to make a long story short - as I said before the ark would have to be much bigger than claimed to be to carry food for all the animals. They would had to have farms on board to raise food for(meat and plant) for the animals.

As far as what if f one ate another male or female, Genesis 7:2 - Take with you seven pairs of all clean animals, the male and his mate, and a pair of the animals that are not clean, the male and his mate,-I guess only the unclean would have suffered the extinction.

But then again back to what I said about the ark in the above statement.

“Ask Randy From Ballwin”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

He Is A Sock Know It All

#114449 Jun 17, 2014
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would you say that?
One would think that every mutation has an effect on the individual, even if small. If in the population none of the them, no 2 will have the exact mutations then it stands to reason that some with different mutations still will evolve to the same outcome/effect of the population. Is there a dominant mutation that supersedes all the others? Again as I say "don't know if all that makes since, so I am asking." .

“Ask Randy From Ballwin”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

He Is A Sock Know It All

#114450 Jun 17, 2014
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
No, that is NOT what I am saying. If a different collection of mutations happens, then the species would evolve in a different direction. It would still become more adapted to the environment, but in a different way.
Lets take race. It is easy to see that we humans are all the same species. I kind of look at race as an example of having different mutations but yet still evolving with the population even though slightly different.(skin color, bone structure(nose shape etc), the eye opening shape, height, ability, etc.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#114451 Jun 17, 2014
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
I think the one with a reading problem is you. As I said and will say again(pay attention this time) "but to be sure there is no misunderstanding here, none of that means a world wide flood is/was possible. All I am saying is there is more water under us than we ever thought
You also claimed that a worldwide flood was possible. That was not implied by that article at all. Put it this way, if the bank that you use has assets of a billion dollars it does not mean that it would be possible for you to withdraw a billion dollars tomorrow. At the worst the water in the mantle acts as a reservoir. If you wanted to get enough water out of the mantle to flood the Earth the water would be the least of our problems.

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#114452 Jun 17, 2014
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
One would think that every mutation has an effect on the individual, even if small. If in the population none of the them, no 2 will have the exact mutations then it stands to reason that some with different mutations still will evolve to the same outcome/effect of the population. Is there a dominant mutation that supersedes all the others? Again as I say "don't know if all that makes since, so I am asking." .
I don’t know if this is of interest but consider blue eyes.

They did not exist in the human population 10,000 years ago then a mutation, not in the OCA2 gene that effects eye colour but the gene next to it caused the limitation of the OCA2’s P protein production which results in lower melanin production and lighter hair and blue eyes

This mutation stemmed from a single common ancestor born in Turkey.

“Ask Randy From Ballwin”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

He Is A Sock Know It All

#114453 Jun 17, 2014
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
You also claimed that a worldwide flood was possible. That was not implied by that article at all. Put it this way, if the bank that you use has assets of a billion dollars it does not mean that it would be possible for you to withdraw a billion dollars tomorrow. At the worst the water in the mantle acts as a reservoir. If you wanted to get enough water out of the mantle to flood the Earth the water would be the least of our problems.
You still think it is a myth that the chameleon changes colors to blend in to avoid predators?
Again not saying that is the only reason, but it is one of the reasons.

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#114454 Jun 17, 2014
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
I think the one with a reading problem is you. As I said and will say again(pay attention this time) "but to be sure there is no misunderstanding here, none of that means a world wide flood is/was possible. All I am saying is there is more water under us than we ever thought
Estimated to be around three times more than we thought, still not enough by a factor of thousands to cover the earth as describe in the babble

“Ask Randy From Ballwin”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

He Is A Sock Know It All

#114455 Jun 17, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
I don’t know if this is of interest but consider blue eyes.
They did not exist in the human population 10,000 years ago then a mutation, not in the OCA2 gene that effects eye colour but the gene next to it caused the limitation of the OCA2’s P protein production which results in lower melanin production and lighter hair and blue eyes
This mutation stemmed from a single common ancestor born in Turkey.
Sort of in line with what I meant. People in the population with different mutations having different effects still evolved with the population and stayed with-in the species..

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#114456 Jun 17, 2014
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Sort of in line with what I meant. People in the population with different mutations having different effects still evolved with the population and stayed with-in the species..
And German Sheppard dogs with one blue eye and one brown are still dogs.

See the skull in my avatar, it is about 30 thousand years old, it is human ( cro magnon ) it is on average about 13% larger than modern humans, the bone structure is thicker and the brain case is 10% larger. For humans to evolve from Cro-Magnon to modern human has taken thousands of years with thousand of minute adaptations and yet without that explanation you would not have realised that it was not a modern human skull.

Evolution is (in humans anyway) a long term process.
deutscher Stolz

Osnabrück, Germany

#114457 Jun 17, 2014
Discord wrote:
I will leave it to you to dwell on the irony of a German being taken in by propaganda.
This isn't propaganda. It is the truth that Americans are dumb. I already met some Americans and they were dumb as hell.
Only Brits are more stupid.

Some of the nations from most to least intelligent:

Germany/ Austria
German Switzerland
Japan
Korea

...

France
some Arabic countries
Turkey

...

Usa
Britain

Since: Jun 14

Location hidden

#114458 Jun 17, 2014
Answering a question with a question, eh?

Why didnt you answer the question with a simple "yes" or "no"?

*flashes cold and deathly smile*
TurkanaBoy wrote:
<quoted text>
Does water burn?
Does water have the capacity to hold/carry heat?

I will ask again:

Does the universe have the capacity for intelligence?

I suspect that you will ask me what the terms "capacity", "intelligence", and "universe" mean.

In that case, feel free to apply any definition you see fit to each term; as long as you give me a direct answer...

... preferably a simple yes/no

Since: Jun 14

Location hidden

#114459 Jun 17, 2014
TurkanaBoy wrote:
<quoted text>
1) gametes (sperm or ovum) > when produced: mutations in their DNA
2) sperm meets ovum, conception > DNA of both recombined, along with all caught mutations
3) from the very moment of fertilization, natural selection kicks in: when the combined mutations in the recombinated DNA is already fatal for the basic metabolism of the fertilized ovum, the egg will die at instance
4) if certain mutations are deleterious in later stages of gestation of the embryo (due to being on genes that express in that later stage), the embryo will die at that very moment
A compromised DNA has found to be a major factor in still birth. Of all conceptions in humans, we know only 15% leads to life birth of a viable newborn (although there are other causes of stillbirth as well, e.g. infections, malnutrition etc.).
5) if a viable life birth has occurred, natural selection just continues. In 'natural state', without all the technology, medicine etc. 25-50% of all newborn will die before 12 years of age. That is - naturally spoken - NORMAL. In other species this may pile up to 90% or even 99%.
So natural selection is a tendency for the inadequate to perish?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#114460 Jun 17, 2014
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
You still think it is a myth that the chameleon changes colors to blend in to avoid predators?
Again not saying that is the only reason, but it is one of the reasons.
There was only one study that implied that. For the most part that does not seem to be the case. One peer reviewed paper is a start, It is not a positive win. I will admit that it is a possibility.
I Talk to Dumb People

Los Angeles, CA

#114461 Jun 17, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
Answering a question with a question, eh?
Why didnt you answer the question with a simple "yes" or "no"?
*flashes cold and deathly smile*
<quoted text>
Does water have the capacity to hold/carry heat?
I will ask again:
Does the universe have the capacity for intelligence?
I suspect that you will ask me what the terms "capacity", "intelligence", and "universe" mean.
In that case, feel free to apply any definition you see fit to each term; as long as you give me a direct answer...
... preferably a simple yes/no
Hello, how are you doing today?

To address your dumb questions; the answers are yes and yes.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#114462 Jun 17, 2014
deutscher Stolz wrote:
<quoted text>
This isn't propaganda. It is the truth that Americans are dumb. I already met some Americans and they were dumb as hell.
Only Brits are more stupid.
Some of the nations from most to least intelligent:
Germany/ Austria
No, it is not the 'truth'.

It is merely you biased opinion based upon limited contact with other cultures.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#114463 Jun 17, 2014
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
One would think that every mutation has an effect on the individual, even if small. If in the population none of the them, no 2 will have the exact mutations then it stands to reason that some with different mutations still will evolve to the same outcome/effect of the population. Is there a dominant mutation that supersedes all the others? Again as I say "don't know if all that makes since, so I am asking." .
There can be mutations at the DNA level that produce the same effect at the level of proteins. There are other mutations that have no measurable effect on anything.

You seem to think that there can only be *one* optimal adaptation for any given situation. if that were so, we would expect natural selection to drive towards that solution. But it is simply not the same that only one solution exists. There can be many locally optimal situations, with any one of them a possible outcome for the selection process. Again, which one actually happens depends on the random occurrence of specific mutations.

No, no mutation is dominant in the sense you are asking. More mutations are completely independent of other mutations. Some few do interact.

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