Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 223296 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

“It is what it is”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

Location hidden

#114455 Jun 17, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
I don’t know if this is of interest but consider blue eyes.
They did not exist in the human population 10,000 years ago then a mutation, not in the OCA2 gene that effects eye colour but the gene next to it caused the limitation of the OCA2’s P protein production which results in lower melanin production and lighter hair and blue eyes
This mutation stemmed from a single common ancestor born in Turkey.
Sort of in line with what I meant. People in the population with different mutations having different effects still evolved with the population and stayed with-in the species..

“Be strong ...”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

...I whispered to my coffee

#114456 Jun 17, 2014
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Sort of in line with what I meant. People in the population with different mutations having different effects still evolved with the population and stayed with-in the species..
And German Sheppard dogs with one blue eye and one brown are still dogs.

See the skull in my avatar, it is about 30 thousand years old, it is human ( cro magnon ) it is on average about 13% larger than modern humans, the bone structure is thicker and the brain case is 10% larger. For humans to evolve from Cro-Magnon to modern human has taken thousands of years with thousand of minute adaptations and yet without that explanation you would not have realised that it was not a modern human skull.

Evolution is (in humans anyway) a long term process.
deutscher Stolz

Osnabrück, Germany

#114457 Jun 17, 2014
Discord wrote:
I will leave it to you to dwell on the irony of a German being taken in by propaganda.
This isn't propaganda. It is the truth that Americans are dumb. I already met some Americans and they were dumb as hell.
Only Brits are more stupid.

Some of the nations from most to least intelligent:

Germany/ Austria
German Switzerland
Japan
Korea

...

France
some Arabic countries
Turkey

...

Usa
Britain

Since: Jun 14

Location hidden

#114458 Jun 17, 2014
Answering a question with a question, eh?

Why didnt you answer the question with a simple "yes" or "no"?

*flashes cold and deathly smile*
TurkanaBoy wrote:
<quoted text>
Does water burn?
Does water have the capacity to hold/carry heat?

I will ask again:

Does the universe have the capacity for intelligence?

I suspect that you will ask me what the terms "capacity", "intelligence", and "universe" mean.

In that case, feel free to apply any definition you see fit to each term; as long as you give me a direct answer...

... preferably a simple yes/no

Since: Jun 14

Location hidden

#114459 Jun 17, 2014
TurkanaBoy wrote:
<quoted text>
1) gametes (sperm or ovum) > when produced: mutations in their DNA
2) sperm meets ovum, conception > DNA of both recombined, along with all caught mutations
3) from the very moment of fertilization, natural selection kicks in: when the combined mutations in the recombinated DNA is already fatal for the basic metabolism of the fertilized ovum, the egg will die at instance
4) if certain mutations are deleterious in later stages of gestation of the embryo (due to being on genes that express in that later stage), the embryo will die at that very moment
A compromised DNA has found to be a major factor in still birth. Of all conceptions in humans, we know only 15% leads to life birth of a viable newborn (although there are other causes of stillbirth as well, e.g. infections, malnutrition etc.).
5) if a viable life birth has occurred, natural selection just continues. In 'natural state', without all the technology, medicine etc. 25-50% of all newborn will die before 12 years of age. That is - naturally spoken - NORMAL. In other species this may pile up to 90% or even 99%.
So natural selection is a tendency for the inadequate to perish?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#114460 Jun 17, 2014
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
You still think it is a myth that the chameleon changes colors to blend in to avoid predators?
Again not saying that is the only reason, but it is one of the reasons.
There was only one study that implied that. For the most part that does not seem to be the case. One peer reviewed paper is a start, It is not a positive win. I will admit that it is a possibility.
I Talk to Dumb People

Los Angeles, CA

#114461 Jun 17, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
Answering a question with a question, eh?
Why didnt you answer the question with a simple "yes" or "no"?
*flashes cold and deathly smile*
<quoted text>
Does water have the capacity to hold/carry heat?
I will ask again:
Does the universe have the capacity for intelligence?
I suspect that you will ask me what the terms "capacity", "intelligence", and "universe" mean.
In that case, feel free to apply any definition you see fit to each term; as long as you give me a direct answer...
... preferably a simple yes/no
Hello, how are you doing today?

To address your dumb questions; the answers are yes and yes.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#114462 Jun 17, 2014
deutscher Stolz wrote:
<quoted text>
This isn't propaganda. It is the truth that Americans are dumb. I already met some Americans and they were dumb as hell.
Only Brits are more stupid.
Some of the nations from most to least intelligent:
Germany/ Austria
No, it is not the 'truth'.

It is merely you biased opinion based upon limited contact with other cultures.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#114463 Jun 17, 2014
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
One would think that every mutation has an effect on the individual, even if small. If in the population none of the them, no 2 will have the exact mutations then it stands to reason that some with different mutations still will evolve to the same outcome/effect of the population. Is there a dominant mutation that supersedes all the others? Again as I say "don't know if all that makes since, so I am asking." .
There can be mutations at the DNA level that produce the same effect at the level of proteins. There are other mutations that have no measurable effect on anything.

You seem to think that there can only be *one* optimal adaptation for any given situation. if that were so, we would expect natural selection to drive towards that solution. But it is simply not the same that only one solution exists. There can be many locally optimal situations, with any one of them a possible outcome for the selection process. Again, which one actually happens depends on the random occurrence of specific mutations.

No, no mutation is dominant in the sense you are asking. More mutations are completely independent of other mutations. Some few do interact.
TurkanaBoy

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#114464 Jun 17, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>Answering a question with a question, eh?
Why didnt you answer the question with a simple "yes" or "no"?
*flashes cold and deathly smile*
Does water have the capacity to hold/carry heat?
Yes.
Does water burn?
No.
Do you understand metaphors?
Apparently not.
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
I will ask again:
Does the universe have the capacity for intelligence?
I suspect that you will ask me what the terms "capacity", "intelligence", and "universe" mean.
In that case, feel free to apply any definition you see fit to each term; as long as you give me a direct answer...
... preferably a simple yes/no
Asking whether the universe has the capacity for intelligence is like asking whether water burns or incinerates. Senseless question. A senseless question provokes irony.

Please state the question in an unambiguous way.
TurkanaBoy

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#114465 Jun 17, 2014
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope. Have a poll to back this up?
I think dS is right: http://ncse.com/news/2011/04/polling-creation... .

Since: Jun 14

Location hidden

#114467 Jun 17, 2014
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
What about physics?
"Thought experiments have been used in a variety of fields, including philosophy, law, PHYSICS, and mathematics." [wikipedia.com]

*raises one eyebrow and exhales cigarette smoke slowly*
THE LONE WORKER

Tucker, GA

#114468 Jun 17, 2014
TurkanaBoy wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes.
Does water burn?
No.
Do you understand metaphors?
Apparently not.
<quoted text>
Asking whether the universe has the capacity for intelligence is like asking whether water burns or incinerates. Senseless question. A senseless question provokes irony.
Please state the question in an unambiguous way.
I read about an experiment where a pressure tank with a pop-off valve was filled with water and a piece of aluminum foil and some lye was added. A reaction caused the pop-off valve to open and the pure hydrogen which escaped could be burned. If you can separate the hydrogen and oxygen, then YES water burns.

Since: Jun 14

Location hidden

#114469 Jun 17, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
What facts am I not acknowledging?
If you refer to the fact of God's existence then unfortunately you have yet to demonstrate that this being even exists yet, much less that you know it better than anyone else on Earth. Or even just here.
Before you get to "If you refer to the fact of God's existence then unfortunately you have yet to demonstrate that": deal with:

1. Is looking for evidence that someone said something, the same as looking for evidence that a vehicle has passed a particular spot?

2. Do words have the same effects as tire tracks?

3. Do words leave impressions on the ground like tire tracks?

4. Do we not know that when looking for evidence of things, it is the nature of the thing that determines how that thing will/can be investigated?

I ahve structured them such that a simple yes/no will be sufficient.

Since: Jun 14

Location hidden

#114470 Jun 17, 2014
JM_Brazil wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't know, do you have the capacity?
Suppose I do.

What would that imply, as it relates to the question?

Since: Jun 14

Location hidden

#114471 Jun 17, 2014
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Was that supposed to be an answer?
Skip the word salad and answer the question. How does natural selection demonstrate intent?
Just checking to make sure you know what intelligence means.

So far, I am not seeing any sign that you do.
deutscher Stolz

Osnabrück, Germany

#114472 Jun 17, 2014
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
No, it is not the 'truth'.
It is merely you biased opinion based upon limited contact with other cultures.
Then tell me. Why am I just average intelligent (the Turks not included) inside of Germany but superior outside of Germany?

Ich have already been in France, Spain, the Uk, Austria, Switzerland, Czech republic, the Netherlands, Denmark, Poland, Marocco, the united arabic emirates, Saudi Arabia (my uncle is working there as a political economist) and Italy.
The only intelligent people I have met were in Austria and the German part of Switzerland.
Besides Austria is nothing but Germany. I consider Austria as the 17th 'Bundesland'.

Since: Jun 14

Location hidden

#114473 Jun 17, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
It has the capacity to contain intelligent biological organisms inside it. That's the only known way intelligence exists.
At the moment.
Okay.

So are we and our intelligence separate from the universe?

Is our intelligence the product of natural forces in nature, or outside/beyond of nature?
THE LONE WORKER

Tucker, GA

#114474 Jun 17, 2014
Back many years ago some people made their own soap which was made from lard and lye. Many people got their lye from the bottom of wooden rain barrels, which were filled with stove or fire place ashes. I don't know if a person could use lye and aluminum to make enough hydrogen to power a hydrogen fuel celled engine, but maybe so.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#114475 Jun 17, 2014
TurkanaBoy wrote:
<quoted text>
I think dS is right: http://ncse.com/news/2011/04/polling-creation... .
I disagree. There are a percentage of Germans who are creationists - about 12% or 1 in 8.

The majority of Americans are not creationists. About 40% are but that is not a majority or the "rule" as bubi claimed.

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