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Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 199398 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

“Up with which, I will not put”

Since: Jul 08

Sao Paulo

#114383 Jun 16, 2014
TurkanaBoy wrote:
<quoted text>
The bible says: all the mountains were covered with the flood water plus 15 cubits surplus.
All the mountains include Mount Everest.
To cover mount Everest needs 2.5 times the total amount of water on the planet, on the surface as well as the known pockets of water in the outer mantle.
WHERE did all that water go?
And you need to be schooled in logic as well:
How flat the earth may be, you cannot flood the earth using the water that already exists. If there is dry land anywhere, then that means you need to have ADDITIONAL water coming from somewhere else. The entire reason that there is dry land is precisely because there isn't enough water to cover it up.
Well, isn't THAT of a big surprise, isn't it.
I have some more amazing things:
The amazing thing about "sea level" is that it is the lowest you can go and still be on the "surface". Water necessarily rushes downhill to the lowest level it can get, that is: sea level. Thus, dry land is necessarily above and beyond what the water can cover.
WOW!
Welcome in the NEXT century.
Which in your case is the 5th BC.
It is astonishing how we still have to learn THIS VERY ELEMENTARY reasoning and logic to ADULTS.
This brings up another point which I've already asked our resident creationists, and have not yet gotten an answer.

15 cubits is around 7 meters. How did Noah know the highest peak was covered with +7 meters of water? If the entire planet was covered with water, there would be no visible reference to which he could calculate a depth. If the water rose so high, so fast (Covering the planet in 40 days, give or take), the sea would be such a raging mass that simply surviving would be the priority at hand, not navigating to find what Noah thought to be where the highest peak would be, and trying to measure the depth at that point.

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HAGER
#114384 Jun 16, 2014
deutscher Stolz wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you dumb?
It isn't just a hypothesis. Ever heard of sound waves? The dispersion of sound waves depends on the medium of the waves. You can measure the dispersion of these waves and derive the structure of the earth from this. Of course it's complicated to do this in reality and you need some high tech equipment.
For example scientists investigated the dispersion of the waves of earthquakes.
These are basics. It is unbelievable how stupid Americans can be.
The core is said to possibly be liquid and the hypothesis is what the liquid is.

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“Seventh son”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Will Prevail

#114385 Jun 16, 2014
HAGER wrote:
<quoted text>Most salt comes from beneath the crust.
Ok wtf let you out the damn cage?
HAGER
#114386 Jun 16, 2014
JM_Brazil wrote:
<quoted text>
This brings up another point which I've already asked our resident creationists, and have not yet gotten an answer.
15 cubits is around 7 meters. How did Noah know the highest peak was covered with +7 meters of water? If the entire planet was covered with water, there would be no visible reference to which he could calculate a depth. If the water rose so high, so fast (Covering the planet in 40 days, give or take), the sea would be such a raging mass that simply surviving would be the priority at hand, not navigating to find what Noah thought to be where the highest peak would be, and trying to measure the depth at that point.
Unless Noah was a highly advanced giant of a human who had super capabilities and the covering for the ARK (which was just a container) was an advanced space ship or something of the sort. Since the Creator showed him how to build this, you would think advanced math may have been used as well.

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Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#114387 Jun 16, 2014
JM_Brazil wrote:
<quoted text>
This brings up another point which I've already asked our resident creationists, and have not yet gotten an answer.
15 cubits is around 7 meters. How did Noah know the highest peak was covered with +7 meters of water? If the entire planet was covered with water, there would be no visible reference to which he could calculate a depth. If the water rose so high, so fast (Covering the planet in 40 days, give or take), the sea would be such a raging mass that simply surviving would be the priority at hand, not navigating to find what Noah thought to be where the highest peak would be, and trying to measure the depth at that point.
this was the word of god. the same god that lied about the global flood. the same god the bible proves is false. just like every other god humans have tried to create for their cults.
HAGER
#114388 Jun 16, 2014
The ocean water may have came up from a vast supply between the upper and lower mantle and the salt was brought up with it.

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HAGER
#114389 Jun 16, 2014
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>from the mantel? really? who told you this? why did you believe them?
I have been keeping up with the latest findings which suggest there is great amounts of water below to upper mantle. Real scientific research is bringing this to light.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#114390 Jun 16, 2014
HAGER wrote:
<quoted text>The core is said to possibly be liquid and the hypothesis is what the liquid is.
"Liquid" as in molten iron, yes.

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Level 5

Since: Mar 13

He Is A Sock Know It All

#114391 Jun 16, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
We also now know that cross species mutations can be effected through the microbial world with LGT or HGT .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizontal_gene_...
So evolution finds a way, even without the conventional methods.
We have known most of that for 50 or so years. Bacterial conjugation is like sexual reproduction, transduction is like being infected by a virus carrying genetic material, gene transfer agent requires a certain receptor and transformation is like absorbing what comes off/out of the other organism.

“Dinosaurs survived the flood!”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Jesus probably rode dinosaurs!

#114392 Jun 16, 2014
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
There are plenty of dry land areas with elevations below sea level.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_places_o...
Stick to no flood for your argument about sea level holds no water. No pun intended.
What he is saying is that the oceans cover as much land as they can and there isn't enough water to cover the remaining land so it is dry land. It logically follows that if there is not enough water to cover the earth now, then how could there have been 4500 ybp. At least I think I interpreted that correctly or close.

It is a good argument. It would take about 4.5 billion cubic kilometers of water to cover the earth above Mt. Everest. The volume of available water on earth is estimated at 1.4 billion cubic kilometers. So the questions that remain unanswered are where did all this water come from and where did it go.

All the creationist answers to these questions that I have seen so far are conjecture not based on evidence and often offered as fact in the face of evidence to the contrary.

There simply isn't enough water to cover the globe and all the answers by creationists just open new doors to new questions that are either left unanswered or addressed with more conjecture.

“Dinosaurs survived the flood!”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Jesus probably rode dinosaurs!

#114393 Jun 16, 2014
HAGER wrote:
The ocean water may have came up from a vast supply between the upper and lower mantle and the salt was brought up with it.
Conjecture that you can't support with evidence. Show us the evidence.

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

He Is A Sock Know It All

#114394 Jun 16, 2014
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>What he is saying is that the oceans cover as much land as they can and there isn't enough water to cover the remaining land so it is dry land. It logically follows that if there is not enough water to cover the earth now, then how could there have been 4500 ybp. At least I think I interpreted that correctly or close.
It is a good argument. It would take about 4.5 billion cubic kilometers of water to cover the earth above Mt. Everest. The volume of available water on earth is estimated at 1.4 billion cubic kilometers. So the questions that remain unanswered are where did all this water come from and where did it go.
All the creationist answers to these questions that I have seen so far are conjecture not based on evidence and often offered as fact in the face of evidence to the contrary.
There simply isn't enough water to cover the globe and all the answers by creationists just open new doors to new questions that are either left unanswered or addressed with more conjecture.
I read a story(I will try to find the link) that states that reservoirs hidden beneath the Earth's crust holds as much water as all of the oceans. I read a story the other day about another huge ocean of water found beneath earths crusts. Posted it to kab in that thread.

“Dinosaurs survived the flood!”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Jesus probably rode dinosaurs!

#114395 Jun 16, 2014
HAGER wrote:
<quoted text>I have been keeping up with the latest findings which suggest there is great amounts of water below to upper mantle. Real scientific research is bringing this to light.
Yes, I have seen some of these reports. It is an old search, but it is a bit early for you to jump on the bandwagon. Even if does provide the additional 3 billion cubic kilometers of water, it doesn't address the amount of other solid evidence against the flood. At best you would score 1 out of 30, so don't get your hopes up just yet. More evidence will help sort this out, but it isn't a nail in the coffin for science.

Don't forget, the evidence that shows that areas of the Atacama desert have not seen water for 100,000's of thousands of years. Or the ice caps that still exist when they would have been destroyed by a global flood. Or the heat put out by all that rain in 40 days that would have boiled the earth and Noah and company. Or the fact that in all the fossil evidence that you claim is the result of the flood there are no people until the very top where evolution indicates they should be. Or...and so on.

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“Dinosaurs survived the flood!”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Jesus probably rode dinosaurs!

#114396 Jun 16, 2014
JM_Brazil wrote:
<quoted text>
This brings up another point which I've already asked our resident creationists, and have not yet gotten an answer.
15 cubits is around 7 meters. How did Noah know the highest peak was covered with +7 meters of water? If the entire planet was covered with water, there would be no visible reference to which he could calculate a depth. If the water rose so high, so fast (Covering the planet in 40 days, give or take), the sea would be such a raging mass that simply surviving would be the priority at hand, not navigating to find what Noah thought to be where the highest peak would be, and trying to measure the depth at that point.
I still think that is one great question. I wish I had thought of it. Who measured the flood depth and how did they know where to find the highest mountain or navigate to it for that matter? It leads to other questions. For instance, if they could navigate, why land on the side of a mountain? It doesn't look like an easy trip off of the Mountains of Ararat.

Bass Tracker with a fish finder. That must be it.

If I could, I would by you a drink for coming up with this one. Well done. Hope you don't mind, I use this now, with the proper credit of course.

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Level 5

Since: Mar 13

He Is A Sock Know It All

#114397 Jun 16, 2014
After conducting research for decades, scientists have discovered that a vast water reservoir might be trapped hundreds of miles beneath the Earth's crust. The amount might be enough to fill the Earth's oceans three times over.
http://www.gizmodo.in/indiamodo/Vast-Reservoi...

Scientists scanning the deep interior of Earth have found evidence of a vast water reservoir beneath eastern Asia that is at least the volume of the Arctic Ocean.
http://www.livescience.com/1312-huge-ocean-di...

There are more links on others but to be sure there is no misunderstanding here, none of that means a world wide flood is/was possible. All I am saying is there is more water under us than we ever thought.

“Dinosaurs survived the flood!”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Jesus probably rode dinosaurs!

#114398 Jun 16, 2014
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
I read a story(I will try to find the link) that states that reservoirs hidden beneath the Earth's crust holds as much water as all of the oceans. I read a story the other day about another huge ocean of water found beneath earths crusts. Posted it to kab in that thread.
If the evidence turns out to support this, then that would account for the volume needed to cover Mt Everest. But it still remains that it would need to move up 400 miles in 40 days and that leaves the rain in question. Though I can see an counterpoint being that this is the water that returned to the depths of the earth after the flood. Nevertheless, it would be only 1 in 30 or maybe many more legitimate objections. Not a very good score. At the worst it weakens one objection markedly, but that objection isn't a game changer. Counter to this would be that the existence of a reservoir of that size does not show a flood or any indication of a flood and does not address the issues concerning the release of all the energy from the flood.

Since: Jun 14

Location hidden

#114399 Jun 17, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
No.
In that sense Repro was a darn sight closer than you.
Does natural selection happen before or after mutation?

Since: Jun 14

Location hidden

#114400 Jun 17, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
No it doesn't. A giant asteroid wiping out the dinosaurs doesn't demonstrate someone intended the dinos to die a horrible death.
Unless you're saying someone deliberately threw that big rock their way.
And I'd ask for evidence at that point of course...
Does the universe have the capacity for intelligence?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

#114401 Jun 17, 2014
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
I read a story(I will try to find the link) that states that reservoirs hidden beneath the Earth's crust holds as much water as all of the oceans. I read a story the other day about another huge ocean of water found beneath earths crusts. Posted it to kab in that thread.
Perhaps you read it, I can guarantee that you did not understand it.

What sort of reservoirs do you think they were talking about?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

#114402 Jun 17, 2014
replaytime wrote:
After conducting research for decades, scientists have discovered that a vast water reservoir might be trapped hundreds of miles beneath the Earth's crust. The amount might be enough to fill the Earth's oceans three times over.
http://www.gizmodo.in/indiamodo/Vast-Reservoi...
Scientists scanning the deep interior of Earth have found evidence of a vast water reservoir beneath eastern Asia that is at least the volume of the Arctic Ocean.
http://www.livescience.com/1312-huge-ocean-di...
There are more links on others but to be sure there is no misunderstanding here, none of that means a world wide flood is/was possible. All I am saying is there is more water under us than we ever thought.
I see that I was correct in my previous post.

Those articles do not say that a world wide flood is possible.

You did not understand what you read. Or else you read articles that were simplified too much.

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