Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 216695 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

The Dude

Wallasey, UK

#113344 May 31, 2014
JM_Brazil wrote:
<quoted text>
Seriously 70, and in all honesty, I do respect you for your passion and true belief in God. You are defending what you believe and that's commendable.
Lying for Jesus and threatening people with hell any who dare to have a different opinion? Personally I don't find that commendable at all.(shrug)

He knows he lies, he knows he's wrong, and he knows he will ignore any and all inconvenient posts and move the goal to attack us with something else, pretending the rest of the thread never happened. All he knows is that there's a line in the Bible saying that the fact that people disagree "proves" the Bible is true. So he only comes here for his daily martyr session.

That's fundamentalism as they come. No different to those nuts in the Middle East who go around killing their own people for praying with a parrot on their right shoulder instead of on their left. And that's what the fundies in the US want. It's just that pesky Constitution keeps getting in the way. Once they replace that with the Bible they can go back to killing blacks and atheists and gays and any (they deem to be) non-Christians and the world will be full of happy joy joy once again and Jesus will come back.
TurkanaBoy

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#113345 May 31, 2014
Sorry, something went wrong with my posts being uploaded.

“Up with which, I will not put”

Since: Jul 08

Sao Paulo

#113346 May 31, 2014
TurkanaBoy wrote:
Sorry, something went wrong with my posts being uploaded.
No problem, all three were spot-on!

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#113347 May 31, 2014
SevenTee wrote:
<quoted text>
Chrome
You mock God every day on TOPIX. I hope you know that God will not be mocked. I read your posts and they are borderline mentally deranged. Are you on medication? You can keep posting and every once in a while I will give you a response. Hope this helps.
Don't worry, your mental instability has rubbed off on Chromium. If you are looking to score some drugs, you might try your psychiatrist. I am sure he misses you.

I occasionally respond to you when I am bored. I don't give a shit if it helps or not.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#113348 Jun 1, 2014
SevenTee wrote:
<quoted text>
The fact is that the Second Law applies to all systems, open or closed, and to all actions and chemical reactions, from molecules to galaxies. The words "except for..." are not in this universal law.
Entropy in the universe as a whole increases.

But the entropy in that hot coffee sitting on your desk, as it cools down, is FALLING, spontaneously and naturally. Hot coffee has higher entropy than coffee that has cooled down.

However, when the heat from that coffee escapes, it raises the entropy in the surrounding air. And the rise in the surrounding air is MORE than the fall in the coffee.

Living systems too can spontaneously reduce their own entropy while passing it to their surrounds. So YOUR understanding of the second law does not apply. If YOUR understanding were true, hot coffee could never cool, glaciers could never form, and babies could never grow up.

This should tell you that you are missing something.

Entropy can and does fall spontaneously in open systems. This is not "an exception". If you ever read an original formulation of the second law, you will always find that it applies to the total entropy of any closed system, not the entropy of particular components of a system.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#113349 Jun 1, 2014
SevenTee wrote:
<quoted text>
Chrome
You mock God every day on TOPIX. I hope you know that God will not be mocked. I read your posts and they are borderline mentally deranged. Are you on medication? You can keep posting and every once in a while I will give you a response. Hope this helps.
If there is a God and He is just and rational, its pretty obvious which group He would regard as mocking Him.

On one hand there are people trained in a difficult discipline to look very, very carefully at the the universe God created and through this observation and reason to try and discover how it works. They are at all times open to criticism, and get shot down mercilessly when they make a mistake of experiment, observation, method, or reason.

On the other hand you have various groups of zealots waving around magic books, every last one of them written by men, backed by threats either in this life or the next one that their book must be believed, that THIS book is the REAL, SPECIAL message of God and we must disregard all the other magic books and all the evidence of the world around us, in favour of this book. No evidence, lots of emotional bribery and blackmail. Even whining when they are asked to produce a shred of evidence for their position. Whining that any criticism is hate speech and mockery, and not even the rigorous, hard criticism that any scientist expects when submitting a science paper for publication.

We know we did not create the universe ourselves. So if there is a God, we know the universe is His creation, whereas whether God exists or not, books can be faked or simply wrong. Those who hold up such books to demand they are right and to threaten others are the ones mocking God and the universe. What insufferable, unbelievable arrogance. Do this, believe that, and the same God that gave you eyes to see for yourselves and a mind to reason with will only love you if you IGNORE these and believe in men with magic books who threaten you. Believe my magic book or my magic book says you will go to hell.

What utter cowards and mockers of truth you book wavers are.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Lakeland, FL

#113350 Jun 1, 2014
SevenTee wrote:
<quoted text>
The problem with someone like you is when scientific laws are presented that make Evolution very suspect you get defensive.
What scientific laws are those?
SevenTee wrote:
There are long lists of scientists who completely disagree with Evolution because it is unscientific.
Talking out you ass again. By the numbers, there is only a tiny list of oddball scientists who disagree with ToE.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Lakeland, FL

#113352 Jun 1, 2014
SevenTee wrote:
<quoted text>
The problem is it really doesn't matter what you think. You are an emotional person who leads with your feelings. There is not one single passage in the Bible that supports your opinion. You have chosen another path and the path is to follow what you "think". I caution you to not believe everything you think.
Here is the list you requested of a list of scientists who do not swallow evolution koolaid
http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/files...
Hilarious! That's not even a thousand. Even counting the one there who are not scientists, do you have any idea what a tiny percentage of scientists this is? Of course, you don't.

Ignorance is bliss.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Lakeland, FL

#113353 Jun 1, 2014
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>Don't worry, your mental instability has rubbed off on Chromium. If you are looking to score some drugs, you might try your psychiatrist. I am sure he misses you.
I occasionally respond to you when I am bored. I don't give a shit if it helps or not.
{coffee/nose}

“Up with which, I will not put”

Since: Jul 08

Sao Paulo

#113354 Jun 1, 2014
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
If there is a God and He is just and rational, its pretty obvious which group He would regard as mocking Him.
On one hand there are people trained in a difficult discipline to look very, very carefully at the the universe God created and through this observation and reason to try and discover how it works. They are at all times open to criticism, and get shot down mercilessly when they make a mistake of experiment, observation, method, or reason.
On the other hand you have various groups of zealots waving around magic books, every last one of them written by men, backed by threats either in this life or the next one that their book must be believed, that THIS book is the REAL, SPECIAL message of God and we must disregard all the other magic books and all the evidence of the world around us, in favour of this book. No evidence, lots of emotional bribery and blackmail. Even whining when they are asked to produce a shred of evidence for their position. Whining that any criticism is hate speech and mockery, and not even the rigorous, hard criticism that any scientist expects when submitting a science paper for publication.
We know we did not create the universe ourselves. So if there is a God, we know the universe is His creation, whereas whether God exists or not, books can be faked or simply wrong. Those who hold up such books to demand they are right and to threaten others are the ones mocking God and the universe. What insufferable, unbelievable arrogance. Do this, believe that, and the same God that gave you eyes to see for yourselves and a mind to reason with will only love you if you IGNORE these and believe in men with magic books who threaten you. Believe my magic book or my magic book says you will go to hell.
What utter cowards and mockers of truth you book wavers are.
Probably the best thing I will read all day. Superb.

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#113355 Jun 1, 2014
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>Don't worry, your mental instability has rubbed off on Chromium. If you are looking to score some drugs, you might try your psychiatrist. I am sure he misses you.
I occasionally respond to you when I am bored. I don't give a shit if it helps or not.
Excuse me? Could you clarify that, please?
TurkanaBoy

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#113356 Jun 1, 2014
SevenTee wrote:
<quoted text>
No I turn to an ignorant TOPIX blogger like you for truth about the Religion of Evolution
What are your credentials exactly?
AGAIN no substantial post and a ad hom as well.
It is getting PATHETIC how you respond.

Your list is flawed because of mentioning scientists who are not working in the proper fields.
Your list is deceitful while through blurry language lurking people into a position where they don't belong. Among those no-one less than Michael Behe, the icon of ID, who, according to his own wordings, basically is an evolutionist.

Your list proves what we already know within the field for a long time: the opposition within the scientific community against evolution is virtually non-existent.

Because you keep on moroning and defecating your stinking crap around, I withdraw my grant on the figures. In 2008 Don Exodus calculated the number of earth and life scientists on the list that ACTUALLY reject evolution to be 12%. 12% of the current 327 earth and life scientists on the list equals 45 persons. 45 persons equals 0,0014% of the 3,125,000 biologists worldwide. Actually it is even LOWER because I didn't include the earth scientists (paleontologists, geologists) who are also relevant experts on the matter, but only the biologists.

The list dates back to 2001. In all those 13 years it managed to attract a miserably meagre 0.0014% of all biologists.

Your list stinks of deceit, if printed on paper only deserving to be shred and recycled into toilet paper. The toilet paper you need to wipe off your stinking arse each time after having pulled the crap out.
TurkanaBoy

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#113357 Jun 1, 2014
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
If there is a God and He is just and rational, its pretty obvious which group He would regard as mocking Him.
On one hand there are people trained in a difficult discipline to look very, very carefully at the the universe God created and through this observation and reason to try and discover how it works. They are at all times open to criticism, and get shot down mercilessly when they make a mistake of experiment, observation, method, or reason.
On the other hand you have various groups of zealots waving around magic books, every last one of them written by men, backed by threats either in this life or the next one that their book must be believed, that THIS book is the REAL, SPECIAL message of God and we must disregard all the other magic books and all the evidence of the world around us, in favour of this book. No evidence, lots of emotional bribery and blackmail. Even whining when they are asked to produce a shred of evidence for their position. Whining that any criticism is hate speech and mockery, and not even the rigorous, hard criticism that any scientist expects when submitting a science paper for publication.
We know we did not create the universe ourselves. So if there is a God, we know the universe is His creation, whereas whether God exists or not, books can be faked or simply wrong. Those who hold up such books to demand they are right and to threaten others are the ones mocking God and the universe. What insufferable, unbelievable arrogance. Do this, believe that, and the same God that gave you eyes to see for yourselves and a mind to reason with will only love you if you IGNORE these and believe in men with magic books who threaten you. Believe my magic book or my magic book says you will go to hell.
What utter cowards and mockers of truth you book wavers are.
Spot-on! Very good post.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#113358 Jun 1, 2014
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
Excuse me? Could you clarify that, please?
Yes. I fired without checking down range. That should be "hasn't rubbed off on you". Sorry for the error.

“Jon Snow”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

The King in the Nor±h

#113360 Jun 1, 2014
SevenTee wrote:
<quoted text>
Believe whatever you wish Sherlock.
I produce a huge list of highly credentialed scientists who are skeptics and you try to spin it.
Again, what are your credentials?
A Scientific Dissent from Darwinism (or Dissent From Darwinism) is a statement issued in 2001 by the Discovery Institute, a fundamentalist conservative Christian think tank based in Seattle, Washington, USA, best known for its advocacy of intelligent design. The statement expresses skepticism about the ability of random mutations and natural selection to account for the complexity of life, and encourages careful examination of the evidence for "Darwinism," a term intelligent design proponents use to refer to evolution.[1]

The statement was published in advertisements under an introduction which stated that its signatories dispute the assertion that Darwin’s theory of evolution fully explains the complexity of living things, and dispute that "all known scientific evidence supports [Darwinian] evolution".[2][3] Further names of signatories have been added at intervals,[4][5] and as of the August 2008 update, it contains 761 names. The list continues to be used in Discovery Institute intelligent design campaigns in an attempt to discredit evolution and bolster claims that intelligent design is scientifically valid by claiming that evolution lacks broad scientific support.[6][7]

The claims made in the document have been rejected by the scientific community.[8][9] Robert T. Pennock says that intelligent design proponents are "manufacturing dissent" in order to explain the absence of scientific debate of their claims: "The "scientific" claims of such neo-creationists as Johnson, Denton, and Behe rely, in part, on the notion that these issues [surrounding evolution] are the subject of suppressed debate among biologists. " ... "according to neo-creationists, the apparent absence of this discussion and the nearly universal rejection of neo-creationist claims must be due to the conspiracy among professional biologists instead of a lack of scientific merit."[10] The statement in the document is described as artfully phrased to represent a diverse range of opinions, set in a context which gives it a misleading spin to confuse the public.[11] The listed affiliations and areas of expertise of the signatories have also been criticized.[1][12]

In their 2010 book Biology and Ideology from Descartes to Dawkins, science and religion scholar Denis Alexander and historian of science Ronald L. Numbers tied the fate of the Dissent to that of the wider intelligent design movement:

After more than a decade of effort the Discovery Institute proudly announced in 2007 that it had got some 700 doctoral-level scientists and engineers to sign "A Scientific Dissent from Darwinism." Though the number may strike some observers as rather large, it represented less than 0.023 percent of the world's scientists. On the scientific front of the much ballyhooed "Evolution Wars", the Darwinists were winning handily. The ideological struggle between (methodological) naturalism and supernaturalism continued largely in the fantasies of the faithful and the hyperbole of the press
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Scientific_Dis...

“Jon Snow”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

The King in the Nor±h

#113361 Jun 1, 2014
Bottom line......

The ideological struggle between (methodological) naturalism and supernaturalism continued largely in the fantasies of the faithful and the hyperbole of the press.

Fantasies of the faithful Seven Tee.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#113362 Jun 1, 2014
SevenTee wrote:
<quoted text>Believe whatever you wish Sherlock.

I produce a huge list of highly credentialed scientists who are skeptics and you try to spin it.

Again, what are your credentials?
So you lean on the words of a comparitively TINY list of scientists...only a few dozen of which are trained in fields relevant to biology, while IGNORING the 99.9% of those scientists in relevant fields who disagree with you.

Nice.
TurkanaBoy

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#113363 Jun 1, 2014
SevenTee wrote:
<quoted text>
Believe whatever you wish Sherlock.
I produce a huge list of highly credentialed scientists who are skeptics and you try to spin it.
Again, what are your credentials?
Yes we all know your stunning relationship to reality: "0,0014% is a HUGE number".

I am a sociobiologist, teaching at the university.
And YOU are?
TurkanaBoy

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#113364 Jun 1, 2014
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
So you lean on the words of a comparitively TINY list of scientists...only a few dozen of which are trained in fields relevant to biology, while IGNORING the 99.9% of those scientists in relevant fields who disagree with you.
Nice.
Pardon? 99,9986% you mean.....

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#113366 Jun 1, 2014
SevenTee wrote:
<quoted text>
Professional Engineer
Professional Sanitary Engineer?

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