Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Read more
THE LONE WORKER

Madison, TN

#111924 Apr 23, 2014
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
On one hand we have an old book of dubious origin that even contradicts itself in many places. It claims the world is about 6000 years old, Adam and Eve and all the animals were separately created, death did not exist, and the Earth was created before the stars, and there was a global flood about 4500 years ago.
NONE of these claims remotely matches the combined observations of thousands of scientists over centuries, each checking the others' work, each happy to prove the other wrong and test conclusions critically and empirically.
If there is a God He created the universe. Men can fake books, but they cannot fake the universe. If you want to know how Godidit and must compare the work of modern science with an absurd fable that fails in just about every possible truth test, be my guest. You have absolutely NO evidence that creation occurred the way your old book claims. We have plenty of evidence that it happened in other ways, whether Godidit or not.
You are an Idolator of the Bible, a work of man, not a lover of God or God's works. And you refuse GOD and the works revealed to our EYES and BRAINS but accept the Bible because this load of old tribal Jewish hooey offers you a cheap BRIBE.
You guys are so transparent. Pure cowardice.
So , I gather that you do not believe the creation was a miracle which happened by the power of God which has no limits.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#111925 Apr 23, 2014
THE LONE WORKER wrote:
<quoted text>This is what happened , and it really doesn't matter who thinks it is a myth. The Bible is true and it says our Creator is our father in heaven who has the kingdom and the power forever. The disobedience was the thing that brought death into the picture, as far as I can understand this. The good news is that God so LOVED us that he sent his only begotten Son into the world so that we can inherit a better life than this one on this earth.
What a childish and irresponsible notion this is, that GOD can take away your sins.

How about those who you have harmed by your sins, flesh and blood humans? Now if they forgive you, you just got lucky, but even GOD does not have the moral right to forgive you, if those you have harmed do not. But you go running to this God and throw yourself at his mercy, as if that makes any difference.

You did what you did.

As if some mug getting fake slaughtered on a cross 2000 years ago can make a damned bit of difference to the fact that you stole 1000 dollars or cheated on your wife or lied to your friend, today.

This craving to be forgiven and not even by the people your sins have harmed, its absurd and a bit pathetic, if not actually evil.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#111926 Apr 23, 2014
THE LONE WORKER wrote:
<quoted text>So , I gather that you do not believe the creation was a miracle which happened by the power of God which has no limits.
After the Big Bang, the science and the evidence is pretty clear.

I have no idea how the Big Bang came to be, though God is one possible hypothesis that I do not discount.

However, I do discount the manner of creation as depicted in the Bible. The ONLY reason anybody still takes that seriously, you have already admitted. Fear for their souls (death), and irresponsibility regarding their wrongdoings, which they would dearly like to see expunged from the record.

Don't be saying logically absurd things like "God has no limits". If your God exists, of course He does. For example, God has no Free Will, since God a billion years ago already knew exactly what God today would do and think. God cannot change His mind! He already knew he was going to! So God either has a limit in changing His mind or a limit in knowing the future.

See, I am not really discounting the possibility of God as a notion. I am merely pointing out that His representation in the Bible, along with the history of creation it presents, is simply childish and absurd, and I am tired of hearing morons trying to corrupt science in defence of this stupidity.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#111927 Apr 23, 2014
THE LONE WORKER wrote:
<quoted text>So , I gather that you do not believe the creation was a miracle which happened by the power of God which has no limits.
Of course it is YOU that is placing limits on the Almighty.

YOU are restricting His act of creation to what simple ignorant shepards cobbled together over campfires a few thousand years ago. NOT the evidence that God (if He DOES exist) left for us to study.

As Chimney (I think) put it to you, you are worshiping a book written by MAN.
That is idolatry.

Lets hope that God can forgive you for that.
THE LONE WORKER

Madison, TN

#111928 Apr 23, 2014
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
What a childish and irresponsible notion this is, that GOD can take away your sins.
How about those who you have harmed by your sins, flesh and blood humans? Now if they forgive you, you just got lucky, but even GOD does not have the moral right to forgive you, if those you have harmed do not. But you go running to this God and throw yourself at his mercy, as if that makes any difference.
You did what you did.
As if some mug getting fake slaughtered on a cross 2000 years ago can make a damned bit of difference to the fact that you stole 1000 dollars or cheated on your wife or lied to your friend, today.
This craving to be forgiven and not even by the people your sins have harmed, its absurd and a bit pathetic, if not actually evil.
The forgiveness of sins that Jesus gives us is required for us to inherit eternal live in a place where there will be no wrongdoings. Our stupidity of our past will be forgotten. There is only one way to that wonderful place and Jesus is the way. If we invite Jesus into our hearts and lives, then we become his friends and he has promised that he has gone to prepare a place for his friends where their sins of their past will be put away from them.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#111929 Apr 23, 2014
THE LONE WORKER wrote:
<quoted text>The New Heaven and Earth will not ever end, and there will be no more death.
Well gee that's nice and all Mikey, but the point was that before that happens we still gotta deal with THIS spacetime continuum which generally operates with accordance to physics. And since you and Bo were talking about that and NOT the later glory of New Heaven and Earth yackety yadda, I was merely pointing out that each of your ideas about THIS reality were inconsistent.
THE LONE WORKER

Madison, TN

#111930 Apr 23, 2014
Having to live with the memories of every bad and terrible thing we have ever experienced would be torment in itself. Jesus can forgive us of the past and not just in this world but the one to come.

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#111931 Apr 23, 2014
THE LONE WORKER wrote:
<quoted text>The forgiveness of sins that Jesus gives us is required for us to inherit eternal live in a place where there will be no wrongdoings. Our stupidity of our past will be forgotten. There is only one way to that wonderful place and Jesus is the way. If we invite Jesus into our hearts and lives, then we become his friends and he has promised that he has gone to prepare a place for his friends where their sins of their past will be put away from them.
Only according to your man written ancient codex, which means - well, nothing actually.

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#111932 Apr 23, 2014
THE LONE WORKER wrote:
Having to live with the memories of every bad and terrible thing we have ever experienced would be torment in itself. Jesus can forgive us of the past and not just in this world but the one to come.
Sounds like you haven't been very good at the Reality of learning from your mistakes and moving on.
THE LONE WORKER

Madison, TN

#111933 Apr 23, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Well gee that's nice and all Mikey, but the point was that before that happens we still gotta deal with THIS spacetime continuum which generally operates with accordance to physics. And since you and Bo were talking about that and NOT the later glory of New Heaven and Earth yackety yadda, I was merely pointing out that each of your ideas about THIS reality were inconsistent.
The physical exists now and we are all a part of the physical reality of this universe or what the Bible calls heaven and earth. A power created it and a power will make it new.
thulium

Perris, CA

#111934 Apr 23, 2014
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually not. The Higgs is another aspect of things dealing with *mass*, not *matter*. Not all matter has mass and not everything with mass is considered matter. And the Higgs mechanism is not the only way mass arises: in fact most ordinary matter does not get its mass in this way; only the very heavy quarks and leptons do.
What I understand is that gamma rays produced by thunderstorms create antimatter. The electron that is transformed by gamma rays when it encounters an atom produces positron. The normal matter electron was not created, it was transformed. And antimatter and matter annihilate each other causing gamma rays that release energy equal to matter and antimatter mass.
thulium

Perris, CA

#111935 Apr 23, 2014
JM_Brazil wrote:
<quoted text>
So you've read a bit of Lederman and you want to drag the "God Particle" to your defense? Matter in the beginning of time came from Gamma ray photons and heat.
"Artificial light"? Whaa?
And you think you know better than Goddard?

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#111936 Apr 23, 2014
thulium wrote:
<quoted text>
What I understand is that gamma rays produced by thunderstorms create antimatter. The electron that is transformed by gamma rays when it encounters an atom produces positron. The normal matter electron was not created, it was transformed. And antimatter and matter annihilate each other causing gamma rays that release energy equal to matter and antimatter mass.
Your understanding is faulty, then. A gamma ray will produce both an electron and a positron--both matter and anti-matter. An electron is not simply 'transformed' by a gamma ray: if a positron is produced in the reaction, you will end up with *two* electrons and one positron.

Similarly, it is possible to take two electrons and give them enough energy so that when they collide the result will have 6 electrons and 4 positrons. That is NOT simply a transformation of the electrons; it is an actual creation of matter and anti-matter out of energy.

This works for more massive particles also and is at the heart of why particle accelerators work toproduce new particles.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#111937 Apr 23, 2014
THE LONE WORKER wrote:
<quoted text>The physical exists now and we are all a part of the physical reality of this universe or what the Bible calls heaven and earth. A power created it and a power will make it new.
Yes, we know all about your myth. Now, what is the actual evidence? The answer is that your myths do not have the evidence backing them up.
thulium

Perris, CA

#111938 Apr 23, 2014
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Your understanding is faulty, then. A gamma ray will produce both an electron and a positron--both matter and anti-matter. An electron is not simply 'transformed' by a gamma ray: if a positron is produced in the reaction, you will end up with *two* electrons and one positron.
Similarly, it is possible to take two electrons and give them enough energy so that when they collide the result will have 6 electrons and 4 positrons. That is NOT simply a transformation of the electrons; it is an actual creation of matter and anti-matter out of energy.
This works for more massive particles also and is at the heart of why particle accelerators work toproduce new particles.
What I meant by transformed is that the electron is ejected at the same time positron is created through gamma ray. There is still something missing here since radioactive material or propagation of gamma rays exceeding the production rate of free electrons doesn't create new matter, just electrons and antiparticles. That's why the lightning scenario produces antimatter not matter.
thulium

Perris, CA

#111939 Apr 23, 2014
But I see your point, electron is normal matter, however, I'm actually talking about something like hydrogen, being the simplest element.
The Dude

Wallasey, UK

#111940 Apr 23, 2014
THE LONE WORKER wrote:
Having to live with the memories of every bad and terrible thing we have ever experienced would be torment in itself. Jesus can forgive us of the past and not just in this world but the one to come.
Actually this is quite a scary statement from you...
The Dude

Wallasey, UK

#111941 Apr 23, 2014
THE LONE WORKER wrote:
<quoted text>The physical exists now and we are all a part of the physical reality of this universe or what the Bible calls heaven and earth. A power created it and a power will make it new.
Thanks for not addressing my point. In that sense, fundies are extremely reliable.
thulium

Perris, CA

#111942 Apr 23, 2014
Gamma-ray photons, like their X-ray counterparts, are a form of ionizing radiation; when they pass through matter, they usually deposit their energy by liberating electrons from atoms and molecules.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/225...
THE LONE WORKER

Madison, TN

#111943 Apr 23, 2014
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, we know all about your myth. Now, what is the actual evidence? The answer is that your myths do not have the evidence backing them up.
Apparently some here do not understand the basic creation story. You call creation a myth when the evidence is clear that disorder is occurring and things are not being made new as we see throughout, but entropy or death is in all of the universe. We are here and the Bible clearly tells us the whys and wherefores of our existence.

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