Evolution vs. Creation

There are 20 comments on the Jan 6, 2011, Best of New Orleans story titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#111249 Apr 14, 2014
Nick wrote:
<quoted text>
Well the same goes for you ya know all youve done is given your opinions
Start here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution

Note the 300 references at the botton of the page. Let us know if you have any questions.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#111251 Apr 14, 2014
SevenTee wrote:
Darwin was a hard core Racist and Sexist which is why Heathens, Atheists, KKK, Nazis, abortionists and slave owners latch on to the belief system:
"The chief distinction in the intellectual powers of the two sexes is shown by man's attaining to a higher eminence, in whatever he takes up, than can woman—whether requiring deep thought, reason, or imagination, or merely the use of the senses and hands. If two lists were made of the most eminent men and women in poetry, painting, sculpture, music (inclusive both of composition and performance), history, science, and philosophy, with half-a-dozen names under each subject, the two lists would not bear comparison. We may also infer, from the law of the deviation from averages, so well illustrated by Mr. Galton, in his work on 'Hereditary Genius,' that if men are capable of a decided pre-eminence over women in many subjects, the average of mental power in man must be above that of woman."
-Charles Darwin, The Descent of M
He was a product of his time. Though if you noticed on PAGE 1 OF THIS THREAD I was able to point out that he wasn't as bad as many of his contemporaries.

Oh, by the way, the KKK are Christian, don't forget the whole Curse Of Ham thing, and keep in mind that "perfect" Adam and Eve, and probably God, were all white.

Of course none of this has any bearing at all whatsoever on the validity of evolution.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#111252 Apr 14, 2014
SevenTee wrote:
<quoted text>
Please be honest,
Funny, coming from you, eh?
SevenTee wrote:
<quoted text>
I have a question for you.
Do you think Black-African People had ancestors who were apes or monkeys?
Yes, they had ape ancestors. Just as white people had ape ancestors.

Humans are apes.

“Up with which, I will not put”

Since: Jul 08

Sao Paulo

#111253 Apr 14, 2014
Nick wrote:
<quoted text>
Look im not saying natural selection doesnt happen or that all animals are equal a penguin and a finch are different besides the fact that there both birds and i believe god created them both but no where in history has a penguin morphed imto a new animal and the same is true for any other anima
Animals don't morph, they evolve, as everyone has been pointing out to you. No one is attacking you, we are presenting the general explanation of what evolution is all about.

As for an example of your 'morphing', Fish 'morphed' into man. Sure, there were many stages in between, but sea creatures eventually evolved into land animals, branching off and becoming different species, including man.

There are places, most in South America, that develop large bodies of water during the rain seasons, which eventually dry up forming separate puddles of water. The fish in these regions would die off because they would be separated from food sources, and could not endure being trapped until the next rain season. So these fish developed legs and learned to hold their breaths while they scurry from puddle to puddle. Absolutely amazing, this is a good example of how animals develop to adopt to their surroundings. THIS - is evolution.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#111254 Apr 14, 2014
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope, creatards do not realize that the word "races" back then was used in much the same way that we use "species" today.
And why do these foaming at the mouth Christians keep forgetting that Hitler was one of their own?
Because it's inconvenient.

Of course any mention of them darn evil Commies they'll happily try to lump all atheists in with 'em.

Not that the USSR were fans of evolution.

“Up with which, I will not put”

Since: Jul 08

Sao Paulo

#111255 Apr 14, 2014
Excuse me, typo - Adapt.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#111256 Apr 14, 2014
Nick wrote:
<quoted text>
My gosh your stupid all i was saying is that i have an open opinion
Your opinions are worthless. We're only interested in your facts.
Nick wrote:
and can tell when somethings bs
No, you can't. Your opinion is rejected because it's an UNINFORMED opinion. You haven't learned the subject which is why you CAN'T tell that it's BS. You're just assuming it's BS because it contradicts your baseless religious beliefs.
Nick wrote:
And font reply by telling me im oh soo stupid because i cant see that evolution is real it clearly isnt its full of holes
And yet you can't point to a single one. EVERY time you've tried we've been able to correct you. Then you CAN'T correct US. Why?

Because we know more than you, period.

That is why you are wrong.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#111257 Apr 14, 2014
PeeNutz wrote:
no one can prove either, so this is a useless argument.
We can, and have, been demonstrating evolution works for 150 years.

Magic, not so much.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#111258 Apr 14, 2014
Nick wrote:
<quoted text>
Why are you guys so strong with your belief isn't that the same as me believing something different these are just two opinions i believe i am right and this forum is meant for debating not to see who's top dog its for discussing both of our opinions like civilized peoples and not for shouting out angry hate comments to put yourself above one another i admit ive had my part in that too but come on guys
I'm not shouting or angry.

The difference between us is that your opinion is not backed up by facts. Ours are. You've even seen us post the evidence. Something you don't do.

This is not a case of two equally valid opinions. This is not a case of your beliefs versus our beliefs. This is a case of you against reality.

We just describe reality.
Nick

Red Deer, Canada

#111260 Apr 14, 2014
Most of you guys on here just say that its creation against reality its not its two opinions remember that also remember that its called an evolutionary THEORY this does not mean you are a hundered percent right there are flaws in evolution its not 100% truth for proof here are some flaws that are ponted out on this website: http://creation.mo bi/question-evolution

How did life with specifications for hundreds of proteins originate just by chemistry without intelligent design?
How did the DNA code originate?
How could copying errors (mutations) create 3 billion letters of DNA instructions to change a microbe into a microbiologist?
Why is natural selection taught as ‘evolution’ as if it explains the origin of the diversity of life?
How did new biochemical pathways, which involve multiple enzymes working together in sequence, originate?
Living things look like they were designed, so how do evolutionists know that they were not designed?
How did multi-cellular life originate?
How did sex originate?
Why are the (expected) countless millions of transitional fossils missing?
How do ‘living fossils’ remain unchanged over supposed hundreds of millions of years?
How did blind chemistry create mind/intelligence, meaning, altruism and morality?
Why is evolutionary ‘just-so’ story-telling tolerated as ‘science’?
Where are the scientific breakthroughs due to evolution?
Why is evolution, a theory about history, taught as if it is the same as the operational science?
Why is a fundamentally religious idea, a dogmatic belief system that fails to explain the evidence, taught in science classes?

Since: Nov 07

St. James, NY

#111261 Apr 14, 2014
Nick wrote:
<quoted text>
Why are you guys so strong with your belief isn't that the same as me believing something different these are just two opinions i believe i am right and this forum is meant for debating not to see who's top dog its for discussing both of our opinions like civilized peoples and not for shouting out angry hate comments to put yourself above one another i admit ive had my part in that too but come on guys
It's not that we are invested in Evolution being right, but we are passionate about science and education in general. We defend Evolution because that is what is being attacked. If Gravity was being attacked, we'd be defending that with equal conviction and we'd be called Gravitationists or something equally creative.

If Evolution was legitimately scientifically disproved tomorrow, our lives would continue unaltered. These arguments would continue though because if that happened, the theory that replaced it would also naturalistic, mechanistic and secular. And that is the part people really seem to have a problem with. Which tells me that Evolution is not what they are upset about, but science in general.

Since: Nov 07

St. James, NY

#111262 Apr 14, 2014
Nick wrote:
<quoted text>
Alot of scientists choose not to believe it, just like everyone else your choice is your choice but there has been many times when a scientist or some sort of professor has looked at evolution or studied animals and seen that creation is far to complex or seen holes in evolution and started believing that we were created
Except there aren't a lot of scientists who choose not to believe in Evolution. For one thing, the level acceptance among scientists (especially those in fields like Biology) is estimated to be about 98% or so. There are more scientists named Steve that accept Evolution then there are scientists by any name who reject or doubt it.

Secondly, acceptance of Evolution really isn't about choice. If a scientist really looks at the evidence (which is available for anyone to evaluate) objectively and without preconceptions just using their training in science, concluding Evolution is valid is pretty inevitable. Think of it this way, the supporters of Evolution come from a wide variety of religious beliefs, political affiliations, cultures, philosophies, etc. The opponents of Evolution predominantly come from very specific religious beliefs, beliefs that if taken literally would be in conflict with Evolution (as well as astronomy, physics, chemistry et al.). That fact alone would indicate that those that oppose Evolution do so due to religious beliefs or preconceptions that has nothing to do with Evolution, while those that support it were able to set aside their preconceptions and evaluate the evidence on its merits.

The 'holes' in evolution aren't holes in the theory but rather holes in the understanding of evolution being exploited by those who oppose it. Wiki has an entire article just on those ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objections_to_e... ). Just about every objection to evolution that exists is due to some misunderstanding of science, of theories, of how evidence works, how observation works, and so on. There are certainly disagreements among scientists about certain elements of Evolution and how they work, but to put it in perspective there is more disagreement and uncertainty and holes in the Theory of Gravity then there are in the Theory of Evolution.

Now, to us lay people, that seems counter intuitive as it is easier for us to understand the basic idea of gravity. But the Theory of Gravity deals with much more than simply masses exerting a pull on each other. They are looking at how gravity is generated, how it interacts with other forces like electromagnetism, how it affected the very early universe right after the Big Bang, how it works within supermassive objects like black holes, how it affects light despite light having no mass, etc. We may not now everything about Evolution, but we know a hell of a lot more about it then gravity.

Since: Nov 07

St. James, NY

#111263 Apr 14, 2014
JM_Brazil wrote:
<quoted text>
Animals don't morph, they evolve,
To be fair, if there was a show called Might Morphin Power Tiktaaliks, I would probably watch it.

Since: Nov 07

St. James, NY

#111264 Apr 14, 2014
Nick wrote:
Most of you guys on here just say that its creation against reality its not its two opinions remember that also remember that its called an evolutionary THEORY this does not mean you are a hundered percent right
Ah, thank you for volunteering an example of what I am talking about. Nothing in science is 100% right. Not one principle in science has every been proven, ever. There is always the possibility that tomorrow new evidence can emerge that can completely overturn anything we know today to be true, so what you are saying has no relevance and can equally apply to the Theory of Gravity, Germ Theory or anything else.

Theory is as good as it gets in science. It is called Evolutionary Theory because it is backed by the evidence. This is why we get frustrated, because the arguments presented are based more on basic misunderstandings then actual criticism of Evolution. Would it really be that much of a hardship to read an actual book on Evolution, instead of just cribbing arguments from websites? If you were going to do a critique on Hamlet, wouldn't part of your research include reading Hamlet itself?

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#111265 Apr 14, 2014
Nick wrote:
Most of you guys on here just say that its creation against reality its not its two opinions remember that also remember that its called an evolutionary THEORY this does not mean you are a hundered percent right there are flaws in evolution its not 100% truth [/QUOTE[

No one has claimed it is 100% proven. But a funny charge coming from someone who believes the bible is the written word of a god with 0% proof.

[QUOTE who="Nick"]for proof here are some flaws that are ponted out on this website: http://creation.mo bi/question-evolution
Yeah. Blah, blah, blah.

Let's look at what your buddies says about themselves:
"Facts are always subject to interpretation by fallible people who do not possess all information. By definition, therefore, no interpretation of facts in any field, including history and chronology, can be valid if it contradicts the scriptural record."

In other words, they are not interested in facts at all. If it disagrees with the bible, it is flat out wrong in their view. Again, a book with 0% proof it is the written word of a god.

BTW, none of these are flaws. Some have been answered; some are still under investigation. Some are just ignorant. Case in point:

"How did life with specifications for hundreds of proteins originate just by chemistry without intelligent design?"

The Theory of Evolution does not address or explain the origins of life. That is a separate filed of study known a abiogenesis. Perhaps if you guys could get your theories straight...

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#111266 Apr 14, 2014
Discord wrote:
<quoted text>
To be fair, if there was a show called Might Morphin Power Tiktaaliks, I would probably watch it.
Well,*THIS* is premiering Wednesday nite (April 16th) on PBS:

"Your Inner Fish" With Neil Shubin

Have you ever wondered why the human body looks the way it does? Why our hands have five fingers instead of six? Why we walk on two legs instead of four?

It took more than 350 million years for the human body to take shape. How did it become the complicated, quirky, amazing machine it is today?

Your Inner Fish delves deep into the past to answer these questions. Premiering Wednesday, April 9, 2014, the three-part series reveals a startling truth: Hidden within the human body is a story of life on Earth.

That's because the evolution of humans can be traced into the distant past, to the earliest forms of vertebrate life on land and even to the earliest forms of life on Earth. Each of us carries the genetic imprint of creatures that lived hundreds of millions of years ago. From them, we inherited our most remarkable features — as well as quirks like bad backs and hernias.

The series is full of revelations that will surprise many viewers. Among the key insights: Our hands evolved from the fins of prehistoric fish. Our skin, hair and teeth can be traced to early reptiles. And our remarkable color vision is a legacy from ancient primates.

Based on a best-selling book by paleobiologist Neil Shubin, this scientific adventure story takes viewers from Ethiopia to the Arctic Circle on a hunt for the many ways that our animal ancestors shaped our anatomical destiny. Shubin has spent much of his life studying our ancient ancestors — searching for the deep pedigree of Homo sapiens. Using both the fossil record and DNA evidence, he traces various parts of our body's structure to creatures that lived long, long ago. Along the way, he makes it clear that we can thank our fishy origins for many human characteristics.

Endowed not just with scientific expertise, but also with natural wit and a talent for storytelling, Shubin puts all these discoveries in context. He travels from fossil-hunting expeditions in the Arctic to the deserts of Ethiopia and to the high plains of South Africa. And he reveals insights from scientists who have identified genes that we still have in common with distant forebears. He weaves together this information from past and present to demonstrate that we humans have a lot more in common than you might think with monkeys, reptiles and even fish.

The series is both an epic saga and a modern-day detective story — by turns surprising, funny and deeply profound. Come face-to-face with your "inner fish" in this completely new take on the human body. After seeing the world through Neil Shubin's eyes, you'll never look at yourself in quite the same way again!

http://www.pbs.org/your-inner-fish/about/over...
The Dude

Wallasey, UK

#111267 Apr 14, 2014
Nick wrote:
Creationists believe in natural selection to you know,
No they don't. If they did they'd understand the concept and accept it. But instead they like to pretend that they're accepting science when they are not.
Nick wrote:
i may not have been fully developed as a child but i had everything essential to support my life at the time
Just as every lifeform had all it needed to survive at the time. That doesn't prevent them from evolving.
Nick wrote:
and not all christians believe the earth i that young
I know. Educated Christians believe the Earth is four and a half billion years old. Christians who disagree are uneducated and wrong.
Nick wrote:
we don't believe its quite as old as you say
So you ARE picking and choosing which bits of reality you like and which you don't.

Sorry, but reality doesn't work that way.
Nick wrote:
but no where in the bible does it say the earth is 6,000 years old that is just a common creationist belief
Yes, it is a common creationist belief. So common in fact that the passage you copy-pasted came from a group of people who tend to believe the Earth is only thousands of years old.

Your pals tend not to be very consistent. That doesn't make your position look good.
The Dude

Wallasey, UK

#111268 Apr 14, 2014
Nick wrote:
<quoted text>
Why are you guys so strong with your belief
It's called scientific evidence.

If you have evidence, "belief" is no longer required.
The Dude

Wallasey, UK

#111269 Apr 14, 2014
Nick wrote:
Then the thing being reduced isn't gaining new info it is losing it
Yes, I know that if you reduce something it is losing information.

The point I made though is that you could remove half the genetic material of an amoeba and change the rest, and STILL easily have enough genetic material to make a human being.
Nick wrote:
and gene duplication is duplicating not creating brand new info
Okay, let's make this simple:

Animal A - "Bingo"

Animal B - "BingoBingo"

Clearly animal B has more information. If you want to check to see if I am lying, count the number of letters in both animals and then post the answers here.
Nick wrote:
so that something like a monkey could turn into a human
Well it took well over 16 million years since our ancestors resembled monkeys.
Nick wrote:
The examples you are giving all result in lessened material,dna,or info, in no case would the organism evolve into something new with more information and then more until it turned into something new and undiscovered
No, you are wrong. The creationists lied to you, period. Mutations do three things:

1 - Take away genetic material (information)

2 - Change genetic material

3 - Add genetic material.

Scientists have observed new genetic material developing from mutations, and have known about it for DECADES.
The Dude

Wallasey, UK

#111270 Apr 14, 2014
Nick wrote:
Look im not saying natural selection doesnt happen or that all animals are equal a penguin and a finch are different
Yes they are. And you and I are different, even though we are both humans. If living beings don't change then you and I would be EXACTLY the same. Like clones. So why are we different?

Answer - evolution.
Nick wrote:
besides the fact that there both birds
Yes, they are both birds.

And one of them doesn't fly, and uses its wings as flippers and fins.
Nick wrote:
and i believe god created them both
Your beliefs are irrelevant to reality.
Nick wrote:
but no where in history has a penguin morphed imto a new animal and the same is true for any other anima
Okay, if you're expecting a penguin to give birth to a fish, that's not how evolution works. If you're expecting a dog to give birth to a cat, that's not how evolution works either. What a penguin WILL do is give birth to another penguin. BUT that penguin will be SLIGHTLY different.

Just as you are SLIGHTLY different from your father. And he was slightly different from his dad. And he was slightly different from his dad. And so on and so on.

These differences mount up. Over thousands of years they aren't really noticeable. But over millions of years, they are.

That is why if you look at the fossil record, millions of years ago there were NO modern penguins. BUT there WERE penguin-like birds. The fossil record clearly shows evolution over time.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Weird Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
What song are you listening to right now? (Apr '08) 2 min Camilla 161,356
News Michael Jackson went to great lengths for stran... 3 min zepforever 8
News The trooper fired at the motorcycle, and then d... 4 min TALLYHO 8541 87
Let's Play Song Titles With One Word? 23 min MrsGladToBeMe 820
Let's Play Songs Titled with Two Words ... 24 min Kool Kidz 755
motorcycle traveling stories 27 min Holmes 627
JUST SAY SOMETHING. Whatever comes to mind!! (Aug '09) 27 min stacked and proud 28,844
Whatcha' doing? (Apr '12) 1 hr mr goodwrench 8,327
Denny Crain's Place (May '10) 2 hr Hoosier Hillbilly 18,190
More from around the web