Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 172029 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#111221 Apr 14, 2014
JM_Brazil wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi Christine, you have to understand that I have a warped sense of humor, and meant nothing other than to make light of one of your comments. Apologies for leading you to believe that I was targeting you, or that I am sexist. I wasn't, and I'm not. My wife and I are both working professionals and rarely encounter each other at home - if I asked her to "fetch" me a beer, I'd get nothing but sarcastic laughter in return. I could never be that kind of guy.
In fact I respect your persistence. If I WERE to speak my mind, I would say there's a difference between kicking a dead horse, and raising one with a crane to try to make it walk again. Let the language thing go. I agree with your points, and think we can all agree - English came from England. Lets close that book.
I have read some of you posts in the past and I realise you “humour”, hence the “fairly” light tone of my post, apology accepted. But you should be aware that what can be humour to one is a red rag to a bull to someone else.

I also realise that Charlie will never change his mind, his opinion is set and can never be changed by facts. I have twice in the past dropped out of the conversation on the “origination” of the English language and twice, Charles has jumped in again with his idiocy and racism, yes racism, to goad me in to continuing. You will notice that the moment he got ChromiuMan and myself arguing he dropped out for a little Charlie chuckle, as is his way.

As for ChromiuMan, well he is a sexist prig with some bright ideas, his error was verbally abusing me and then continuing the abuse after being advised that I would not bow down to his manhood. Contrary to his ignorant accusations I am not a feminist by any means but I do not take any sort of abuse from industry/military leaders and heads of state so there is nothing down for some anonymous nobody. It’s who I am and his egotestical (correct spelling) chauvinism and deliberate ignorance will make no difference to that.

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#111222 Apr 14, 2014
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
I'll disagree with you on two points. First, the fact that the bible is incorrect does not mean it's a lie. Lying is a deliberate action to obscure the truth. Simply being wrong does not constitute a falsehood.
Secondly, you CAN believe in the message of the bible as well as evolution. It is only when the holier-than-thou (you know, the types that dictate who is and who is not a Christian) insist on a literal interpretation that we have a problem.
If you believe in a creator then you must accept the evidence that he left us in the form of the universe. If you deny the evidence present in the universe then you are denying your creator. What is written in a old book of unknown origin aside.
There are several occasions throughout history when church authorities have deliberately obscured the truth. Catholic Emperor Theodosius ordered a purge of all public records that contradicted the New Testament's version of jesus' life including the burning of the library of Alexandria in 390. A papal edict in 1554 ordered the destruction of all references from Jewish texts deemed offensive and blasphemous to christians, christians had the bigger weapons so books like the Talmud no longer faithfully copy the original texts.

The majority of christianity, i.e. the catholic faith are taught that evolution is compatible with christianity, backed by no less than three separate popes. For various reasons there are many of the 40,000 different christian sects who agree. As you say, it’s the holier-than-thou,(I am not usually that polite) who have the problem.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#111223 Apr 14, 2014
SevenTee wrote:
Adolph Hitler has written that the Aryan (German) race would be the leader in all human progress. To accomplish that goal, all “lower races” should either be enslaved or eliminated. The theory of evolution and its “survival of the fittest” philosophy had taken root in Hitler’s warped mind.
Let's just pretend this was true (it isn't, since he was a Bible-believing Christian who was more interested in eugenics, not evolution) it would still have no bearing on the validity of evolution. Hitler was fond of the theory of gravity too. So well done for being stupid enough to invoke Godwin's law.

There are no "lower races" in evolution. All this shows your education on the subject is at the very least 100 years out of date.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#111224 Apr 14, 2014
Nick wrote:
<quoted text>
Creationists believe in natural selection but natural selection isnt creating new info for an animal and i dont care if some of its copy and pasted i know what it all means and im willing to stand by it you know my step dad was a teacher so i already have a pretty clear idea of what is an isnt able to be backed up just like your evolutional theory
Sorry, but you don't have the slightest idea in the least. And whatever your step-daddy's been teaching ya, it ain't evolution.

We backed up evolution without breaking sweat for you a month ago. Of course we've been doing that on here for years long before you even turned up.

We're still waiting for just ONE of you fundies to turn up and actually refute the subject.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#111225 Apr 14, 2014
Nick wrote:
<quoted text>
My gosh your stupid all i was saying is that i have an open opinion and can tell when somethings bs
Evidently not
Nick wrote:
And font reply by telling me im oh soo stupid because i cant see that evolution is real it clearly isnt its full of holes
Did I call you stupid?

BTW, try making sense with your next sentence.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#111226 Apr 14, 2014
JM_Brazil wrote:
<quoted text>
And scientists, and engineers...
And that too
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#111227 Apr 14, 2014
Nick wrote:
Its not wrong and many parts of the bible that would br contridicted by evolution tie into or are mentioned as fact in other parts of the bible
If science contradicts the Bible then the Bible is wrong.
Nick wrote:
God put us here because he loves us and no ome knows there purpose until they come to a point in their life where its clear
So in other words you don't have a clue. We can, and have backed up evolution. Can you do the same for religious beliefs? So far, no.
Nick wrote:
The bible doesn't say the earth is flat
You're lying. Lying is a sin in your religion. I GAVE you the passages from the Bible which state the shape of the Earth.

So you keep avoiding my questions:

Is the Bible LITERALLY true word for word all the way through? Or does it ever use parables, allegory or metaphor? The more you keep dodging this question you know the more you have to lie.
Nick wrote:
Thats not true every answer isnt "God did it" but i believe god put us here and that he created everything
So the answer IS Goddidit.
Nick wrote:
The bible, the complexity of the world around us, miracles, things in the bible that have all been proven
Wrong. All life evolved. The Bible has SOME bits which match with history and some which don't. But evidence doesn't matter to the Bible because if any time evidence conflicts you can just ignore it because God can fix it with magic.
Nick wrote:
Countless things in the bible are backed up by historical evidence, some things are far to complex to have gradually just evolved over millions of years, and look at things that you thought never could happen but they did or a time when something amazing or next to impossible happened
So you're saying that evolution is impossible but your beliefs are not impossible because of miracles from Godmagic. Do you not see your hypocrisy there?

Notice how WE can back ourselves up and you can't, because you have to rely on Godmagic.
Libertarian

UK

#111228 Apr 14, 2014
yes and that something was chemical reactions creating protein chains leading onto life.

the ignorance in here is shocking.
How the hell can a supposedly modern western country have such a high proportion of ignorant people who prefer Goddidit to actual science?

I grew up as a believer and have since learnt about actual facts rather than myths and legends, personal interpretations and believing something because it brings comfort not because its actually true or anything.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#111229 Apr 14, 2014
SevenTee wrote:
The entire history of evolution from the evolution of life from non-life to the evolution of vertebrates from invertebrates to the evolution of man from the ape is strikingly devoid of intermediates: the links are all missing in the fossil record, just as they are in the present world.
Sure, Tee. Except for the fact we pointed a whole bunch of them to ya weeks ago.(shrug)

By the way, the theory of evolution (still) doesn't rely on abiogenesis.
SevenTee wrote:
Way to dodge the question.
Oh, the irony.
SevenTee wrote:
One thing is true the "Theory of Evolution" constantly evolves.
Yes it does. That's because it accounts for new evidence when it is discovered. This is the difference between science and religious dogma.
SevenTee wrote:
When a cult evolutionist is faced with an incovenient fact they make up some BS to further their evolutionary tales.
What you mean is you are unable to refute our evidence so you're ranting and are now forced to attack us with baseless rhetoric.
SevenTee wrote:
Face it you are a two bit hater of the God of the universe and you use evolutionism to justify your hatred.
No, YOU are a God-hater. We know this because you still haven't apologized for when you got caught lying. Also at least one of us on this thread is an evolution-accepting Christian. And there are a few others on the forum. So they don't hate God either. As for any non-believers they don't hate what they consider to be a fictional entity.

What we do not like are liars for Jesus like you who think it's okay to ignore the First Amendment, ignore their own Second Commandment and ruin public school education by pushing your baseless religious opinions onto other people's kids.

But thanks for admitting your uh, "scientific alternative" is not scientific.

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#111230 Apr 14, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Say what? You began the abusive sexism, you don’t like the bounce then tough. Time you grew a set and manned up.
As for the rest of your ignorant ranting, dream on if such buckisms are what excite you, they make not the slightest difference to fact but hey, there ya go…

whatever

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#111231 Apr 14, 2014
Nick wrote:
<quoted text>
Ya and educated group of people thats why you picked and chose at what i said because honestly that with the rest of it made sense
Did your stepfather teach you about punctuation and capitalization?
And, no, it didn't make sense
Libertarian

UK

#111232 Apr 14, 2014
Seriously you guys are behind. Anyone with a brain has accepted evolution by now.

Who do you go to instead of doctors?
You do know that if evolution is wrong your doctors training means nothing.

grow up people, nature is real, we are civilised enough now we dont need gods anymore, at least some of us dont.
Libertarian

UK

#111233 Apr 14, 2014
I am happy to be thought a god-hater.

He created billions of galaxies, but he's so caught up with his petty need for worship he lays down unreasonable rules and then sends anyone who cant do them to eternal hell.
He killed many many people on a whim for the slightest transgression.

He is (he says it himself in the commandments) jealous, petty, uncompassionate, homophobic, mysoginistic and much much more.

Smite me now if you exist!

The human race has thought up tens of thousands of god, why would yours be the one who actually exists when all the others are clearly made up in a christian's eyes.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#111234 Apr 14, 2014
Nick wrote:
Then give me an example of evolution that is 100% backed up by fact and ya no shit its called a figure of speech
Life changes over time. This inevitably leads to speciation.
Nick wrote:
I believe that the things that contradict evolution in the bible are true
Your beliefs don't matter to reality.
Nick wrote:
In Egypt there has been writings found that tell of people and events from the bible for one example.
Sure, because historical events were shared by Christians and Egyptians at the time. On the other hand there's zero evidence for Egyptian society relying on a mass of Jewish slavery.
Nick wrote:
for the complexity thing look at a giraffe its neck is so long that when it bends down to get water it should die but it doesn't because of special thin in its body plus more things for when it stands and then walks or runs
It's also got a nerve (separate from its bloo-pumping system) that loop up, down, then back up again. That's a stupid design. It's also got only 7 neck vertibrae, like us. That's also a stupid design as it would be far more efficient to have lots of neck vertibrae so it could bend it's neck better instead of doing the splits every time it takes a drink so one of his buddies can sneak up behind him and kick him in the balls.
Nick wrote:
it would need all of these components to survive it couldn't have evolved these over time it just doesn't work
Your claim is baseless. Especially in light of the fact that YOU did not have all your internal organs all fully-developed and fully-functional for all of your life, yet you're still here typing away just fine.
Nick wrote:
I don't believe in evolution does not mean that i don't believe in anything science related it just means that i dont believe in that preticular theory
You can't just pick which bits of reality you like and which you don't. You can't accept chemistry and claim carbon-dating is wrong. You can't claim the Earth is only 6,000 years old and accept physics. You can't throw out evolution and take a flu jab. If you take away evolution the rest wouldn't work either. We know this because other non-biological fields also back up evolution. You literally could not be talking to us with your computer right now if science worked like you said it did.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#111235 Apr 14, 2014
Nick wrote:
The complexity of living systems could never evolve by chance
Good job evolution doesn't claim that then. Natural selection coupled with inevitable change is NOT random chance.
Nick wrote:
they had to be designed and created.
Evidence?
Nick wrote:
A system that is irreducibly complex
Has never been found in nature.
Nick wrote:
A mousetrap is a simple example.
Yes, and we know how they come about. But still it CAN be reduced and be used as a tie clip. So even your analogy fails. But you used an analogy because you don't have DIRECT evidence of design.
Nick wrote:
When you look at a watch, you assume there was a watchmaker.
No, we DON'T assume. We know how they are made and who makes them.
Nick wrote:
The high information content of DNA could only have come from intelligence.
Funny, since ALL lifeforms today have DNA and apparently didn't need ANY designer.
Nick wrote:
Information science teaches that in all known cases, complex information requires an intelligent message sender.
And that information came from humans. Without us, it's just a bunch of chemicals.
Nick wrote:
SETI
Then how come SETI thinks you're talking rubbish?
Nick wrote:
A pinhead of DNA has a billion times more information capacity than a 4-gigabit hard drive.
Then DNA is NOTHING like design.
Nick wrote:
No mutation that increases genetic information has ever been discovered.
Gene duplication. You lose.
Nick wrote:
To get from "amoeba" to "man" would require a massive net increase in information.
No, it would need a LOSS. Ameobas have genomes which a 3 BILLION bases longer than humans.
Nick wrote:
What are the chances of me flipping a coin, and then seeing it sprout arms and legs, and go sit in a corner and read a magazine?
This ignores natural selection, which keeps useful stages at every single coin toss.

Nick wrote:
No matter how long it's given, non-life will not become alive.
Now they're being dishonest by changing the subject to abiogenesis. By the way, EVERY piece of your body is made up of once-dead material.

And next time, don't forget to add the link to who you copied from.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#111236 Apr 14, 2014
He te wrote:
<quoted text>
He teaches biology and advance physics along with math
Then he's not been teaching you any biology. If he rejects evolution then he's not very good at biology. Or he's telling you porky pies.
Nick wrote:
No its not you just said that existing information creates new info with Darwin's finches for example the beaks changed a little but they were still just beaks they didn't change into fins or wings.
Penguins wings haven't changed into fins either. But they are wings being used as fins.
Nick

Red Deer, Canada

#111237 Apr 14, 2014
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
The "holes" you claim have been answered. Therefore if you really had the "open opinion" you claim, you would either provide more arguments or you would accept that perhaps you were mistaken in the first place. But we all know you won't do that. Evolution is not "bs" to you because its full of holes, its "bs" to you simply because you think it threatens your religious convictions. At least you could be honest with yourself.
Say to yourself, I dare you "I cannot afford to consider that evolution might be true because if its true then some of the Bible is wrong therefore other parts of the Bible might be wrong too therefore the whole promise of heaven might not be true and I cannot deal with that possibility".
That would be a refreshing change from all these phony aguments.
Why are you guys so strong with your belief isn't that the same as me believing something different these are just two opinions i believe i am right and this forum is meant for debating not to see who's top dog its for discussing both of our opinions like civilized peoples and not for shouting out angry hate comments to put yourself above one another i admit ive had my part in that too but come on guys
Nick

Red Deer, Canada

#111238 Apr 14, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Life changes over time. This inevitably leads to speciation.
<quoted text>
Your beliefs don't matter to reality.
<quoted text>
Sure, because historical events were shared by Christians and Egyptians at the time. On the other hand there's zero evidence for Egyptian society relying on a mass of Jewish slavery.
<quoted text>
It's also got a nerve (separate from its bloo-pumping system) that loop up, down, then back up again. That's a stupid design. It's also got only 7 neck vertibrae, like us. That's also a stupid design as it would be far more efficient to have lots of neck vertibrae so it could bend it's neck better instead of doing the splits every time it takes a drink so one of his buddies can sneak up behind him and kick him in the balls.
<quoted text>
Your claim is baseless. Especially in light of the fact that YOU did not have all your internal organs all fully-developed and fully-functional for all of your life, yet you're still here typing away just fine.
<quoted text>
You can't just pick which bits of reality you like and which you don't. You can't accept chemistry and claim carbon-dating is wrong. You can't claim the Earth is only 6,000 years old and accept physics. You can't throw out evolution and take a flu jab. If you take away evolution the rest wouldn't work either. We know this because other non-biological fields also back up evolution. You literally could not be talking to us with your computer right now if science worked like you said it did.
Creationists believe in natural selection to you know, i may not have been fully developed as a child but i had everything essential to support my life at the time and not all christians believe the earth i that young we don't believe its quite as old as you say but no where in the bible does it say the earth is 6,000 years old that is just a common creationist belief
Nick

Red Deer, Canada

#111239 Apr 14, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Good job evolution doesn't claim that then. Natural selection coupled with inevitable change is NOT random chance.
<quoted text>
Evidence?
<quoted text>
Has never been found in nature.
<quoted text>
Yes, and we know how they come about. But still it CAN be reduced and be used as a tie clip. So even your analogy fails. But you used an analogy because you don't have DIRECT evidence of design.
<quoted text>
No, we DON'T assume. We know how they are made and who makes them.
<quoted text>
Funny, since ALL lifeforms today have DNA and apparently didn't need ANY designer.
<quoted text>
And that information came from humans. Without us, it's just a bunch of chemicals.
<quoted text>
Then how come SETI thinks you're talking rubbish?
<quoted text>
Then DNA is NOTHING like design.
<quoted text>
Gene duplication. You lose.
<quoted text>
No, it would need a LOSS. Ameobas have genomes which a 3 BILLION bases longer than humans.
<quoted text>
This ignores natural selection, which keeps useful stages at every single coin toss.
<quoted text>
Now they're being dishonest by changing the subject to abiogenesis. By the way, EVERY piece of your body is made up of once-dead material.
And next time, don't forget to add the link to who you copied from.
Then the thing being reduced isn't gaining new info it is losing it and gene duplication is duplicating not creating brand new info so that something like a monkey could turn into a human
The examples you are giving all result in lessened material,dna,or info, in no case would the organism evolve into something new with more information and then more until it turned into something new and undiscovered
Nick

Red Deer, Canada

#111240 Apr 14, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Then he's not been teaching you any biology. If he rejects evolution then he's not very good at biology. Or he's telling you porky pies.
<quoted text>
Penguins wings haven't changed into fins either. But they are wings being used as fins.
Look im not saying natural selection doesnt happen or that all animals are equal a penguin and a finch are different besides the fact that there both birds and i believe god created them both but no where in history has a penguin morphed imto a new animal and the same is true for any other anima

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