Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 201116 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#111229 Apr 14, 2014
SevenTee wrote:
The entire history of evolution from the evolution of life from non-life to the evolution of vertebrates from invertebrates to the evolution of man from the ape is strikingly devoid of intermediates: the links are all missing in the fossil record, just as they are in the present world.
Sure, Tee. Except for the fact we pointed a whole bunch of them to ya weeks ago.(shrug)

By the way, the theory of evolution (still) doesn't rely on abiogenesis.
SevenTee wrote:
Way to dodge the question.
Oh, the irony.
SevenTee wrote:
One thing is true the "Theory of Evolution" constantly evolves.
Yes it does. That's because it accounts for new evidence when it is discovered. This is the difference between science and religious dogma.
SevenTee wrote:
When a cult evolutionist is faced with an incovenient fact they make up some BS to further their evolutionary tales.
What you mean is you are unable to refute our evidence so you're ranting and are now forced to attack us with baseless rhetoric.
SevenTee wrote:
Face it you are a two bit hater of the God of the universe and you use evolutionism to justify your hatred.
No, YOU are a God-hater. We know this because you still haven't apologized for when you got caught lying. Also at least one of us on this thread is an evolution-accepting Christian. And there are a few others on the forum. So they don't hate God either. As for any non-believers they don't hate what they consider to be a fictional entity.

What we do not like are liars for Jesus like you who think it's okay to ignore the First Amendment, ignore their own Second Commandment and ruin public school education by pushing your baseless religious opinions onto other people's kids.

But thanks for admitting your uh, "scientific alternative" is not scientific.

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#111230 Apr 14, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Say what? You began the abusive sexism, you don’t like the bounce then tough. Time you grew a set and manned up.
As for the rest of your ignorant ranting, dream on if such buckisms are what excite you, they make not the slightest difference to fact but hey, there ya go…

whatever

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#111231 Apr 14, 2014
Nick wrote:
<quoted text>
Ya and educated group of people thats why you picked and chose at what i said because honestly that with the rest of it made sense
Did your stepfather teach you about punctuation and capitalization?
And, no, it didn't make sense
Libertarian

London, UK

#111232 Apr 14, 2014
Seriously you guys are behind. Anyone with a brain has accepted evolution by now.

Who do you go to instead of doctors?
You do know that if evolution is wrong your doctors training means nothing.

grow up people, nature is real, we are civilised enough now we dont need gods anymore, at least some of us dont.
Libertarian

London, UK

#111233 Apr 14, 2014
I am happy to be thought a god-hater.

He created billions of galaxies, but he's so caught up with his petty need for worship he lays down unreasonable rules and then sends anyone who cant do them to eternal hell.
He killed many many people on a whim for the slightest transgression.

He is (he says it himself in the commandments) jealous, petty, uncompassionate, homophobic, mysoginistic and much much more.

Smite me now if you exist!

The human race has thought up tens of thousands of god, why would yours be the one who actually exists when all the others are clearly made up in a christian's eyes.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#111234 Apr 14, 2014
Nick wrote:
Then give me an example of evolution that is 100% backed up by fact and ya no shit its called a figure of speech
Life changes over time. This inevitably leads to speciation.
Nick wrote:
I believe that the things that contradict evolution in the bible are true
Your beliefs don't matter to reality.
Nick wrote:
In Egypt there has been writings found that tell of people and events from the bible for one example.
Sure, because historical events were shared by Christians and Egyptians at the time. On the other hand there's zero evidence for Egyptian society relying on a mass of Jewish slavery.
Nick wrote:
for the complexity thing look at a giraffe its neck is so long that when it bends down to get water it should die but it doesn't because of special thin in its body plus more things for when it stands and then walks or runs
It's also got a nerve (separate from its bloo-pumping system) that loop up, down, then back up again. That's a stupid design. It's also got only 7 neck vertibrae, like us. That's also a stupid design as it would be far more efficient to have lots of neck vertibrae so it could bend it's neck better instead of doing the splits every time it takes a drink so one of his buddies can sneak up behind him and kick him in the balls.
Nick wrote:
it would need all of these components to survive it couldn't have evolved these over time it just doesn't work
Your claim is baseless. Especially in light of the fact that YOU did not have all your internal organs all fully-developed and fully-functional for all of your life, yet you're still here typing away just fine.
Nick wrote:
I don't believe in evolution does not mean that i don't believe in anything science related it just means that i dont believe in that preticular theory
You can't just pick which bits of reality you like and which you don't. You can't accept chemistry and claim carbon-dating is wrong. You can't claim the Earth is only 6,000 years old and accept physics. You can't throw out evolution and take a flu jab. If you take away evolution the rest wouldn't work either. We know this because other non-biological fields also back up evolution. You literally could not be talking to us with your computer right now if science worked like you said it did.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#111235 Apr 14, 2014
Nick wrote:
The complexity of living systems could never evolve by chance
Good job evolution doesn't claim that then. Natural selection coupled with inevitable change is NOT random chance.
Nick wrote:
they had to be designed and created.
Evidence?
Nick wrote:
A system that is irreducibly complex
Has never been found in nature.
Nick wrote:
A mousetrap is a simple example.
Yes, and we know how they come about. But still it CAN be reduced and be used as a tie clip. So even your analogy fails. But you used an analogy because you don't have DIRECT evidence of design.
Nick wrote:
When you look at a watch, you assume there was a watchmaker.
No, we DON'T assume. We know how they are made and who makes them.
Nick wrote:
The high information content of DNA could only have come from intelligence.
Funny, since ALL lifeforms today have DNA and apparently didn't need ANY designer.
Nick wrote:
Information science teaches that in all known cases, complex information requires an intelligent message sender.
And that information came from humans. Without us, it's just a bunch of chemicals.
Nick wrote:
SETI
Then how come SETI thinks you're talking rubbish?
Nick wrote:
A pinhead of DNA has a billion times more information capacity than a 4-gigabit hard drive.
Then DNA is NOTHING like design.
Nick wrote:
No mutation that increases genetic information has ever been discovered.
Gene duplication. You lose.
Nick wrote:
To get from "amoeba" to "man" would require a massive net increase in information.
No, it would need a LOSS. Ameobas have genomes which a 3 BILLION bases longer than humans.
Nick wrote:
What are the chances of me flipping a coin, and then seeing it sprout arms and legs, and go sit in a corner and read a magazine?
This ignores natural selection, which keeps useful stages at every single coin toss.

Nick wrote:
No matter how long it's given, non-life will not become alive.
Now they're being dishonest by changing the subject to abiogenesis. By the way, EVERY piece of your body is made up of once-dead material.

And next time, don't forget to add the link to who you copied from.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#111236 Apr 14, 2014
He te wrote:
<quoted text>
He teaches biology and advance physics along with math
Then he's not been teaching you any biology. If he rejects evolution then he's not very good at biology. Or he's telling you porky pies.
Nick wrote:
No its not you just said that existing information creates new info with Darwin's finches for example the beaks changed a little but they were still just beaks they didn't change into fins or wings.
Penguins wings haven't changed into fins either. But they are wings being used as fins.
Nick

Canada

#111237 Apr 14, 2014
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
The "holes" you claim have been answered. Therefore if you really had the "open opinion" you claim, you would either provide more arguments or you would accept that perhaps you were mistaken in the first place. But we all know you won't do that. Evolution is not "bs" to you because its full of holes, its "bs" to you simply because you think it threatens your religious convictions. At least you could be honest with yourself.
Say to yourself, I dare you "I cannot afford to consider that evolution might be true because if its true then some of the Bible is wrong therefore other parts of the Bible might be wrong too therefore the whole promise of heaven might not be true and I cannot deal with that possibility".
That would be a refreshing change from all these phony aguments.
Why are you guys so strong with your belief isn't that the same as me believing something different these are just two opinions i believe i am right and this forum is meant for debating not to see who's top dog its for discussing both of our opinions like civilized peoples and not for shouting out angry hate comments to put yourself above one another i admit ive had my part in that too but come on guys
Nick

Canada

#111238 Apr 14, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Life changes over time. This inevitably leads to speciation.
<quoted text>
Your beliefs don't matter to reality.
<quoted text>
Sure, because historical events were shared by Christians and Egyptians at the time. On the other hand there's zero evidence for Egyptian society relying on a mass of Jewish slavery.
<quoted text>
It's also got a nerve (separate from its bloo-pumping system) that loop up, down, then back up again. That's a stupid design. It's also got only 7 neck vertibrae, like us. That's also a stupid design as it would be far more efficient to have lots of neck vertibrae so it could bend it's neck better instead of doing the splits every time it takes a drink so one of his buddies can sneak up behind him and kick him in the balls.
<quoted text>
Your claim is baseless. Especially in light of the fact that YOU did not have all your internal organs all fully-developed and fully-functional for all of your life, yet you're still here typing away just fine.
<quoted text>
You can't just pick which bits of reality you like and which you don't. You can't accept chemistry and claim carbon-dating is wrong. You can't claim the Earth is only 6,000 years old and accept physics. You can't throw out evolution and take a flu jab. If you take away evolution the rest wouldn't work either. We know this because other non-biological fields also back up evolution. You literally could not be talking to us with your computer right now if science worked like you said it did.
Creationists believe in natural selection to you know, i may not have been fully developed as a child but i had everything essential to support my life at the time and not all christians believe the earth i that young we don't believe its quite as old as you say but no where in the bible does it say the earth is 6,000 years old that is just a common creationist belief
Nick

Canada

#111239 Apr 14, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Good job evolution doesn't claim that then. Natural selection coupled with inevitable change is NOT random chance.
<quoted text>
Evidence?
<quoted text>
Has never been found in nature.
<quoted text>
Yes, and we know how they come about. But still it CAN be reduced and be used as a tie clip. So even your analogy fails. But you used an analogy because you don't have DIRECT evidence of design.
<quoted text>
No, we DON'T assume. We know how they are made and who makes them.
<quoted text>
Funny, since ALL lifeforms today have DNA and apparently didn't need ANY designer.
<quoted text>
And that information came from humans. Without us, it's just a bunch of chemicals.
<quoted text>
Then how come SETI thinks you're talking rubbish?
<quoted text>
Then DNA is NOTHING like design.
<quoted text>
Gene duplication. You lose.
<quoted text>
No, it would need a LOSS. Ameobas have genomes which a 3 BILLION bases longer than humans.
<quoted text>
This ignores natural selection, which keeps useful stages at every single coin toss.
<quoted text>
Now they're being dishonest by changing the subject to abiogenesis. By the way, EVERY piece of your body is made up of once-dead material.
And next time, don't forget to add the link to who you copied from.
Then the thing being reduced isn't gaining new info it is losing it and gene duplication is duplicating not creating brand new info so that something like a monkey could turn into a human
The examples you are giving all result in lessened material,dna,or info, in no case would the organism evolve into something new with more information and then more until it turned into something new and undiscovered
Nick

Canada

#111240 Apr 14, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Then he's not been teaching you any biology. If he rejects evolution then he's not very good at biology. Or he's telling you porky pies.
<quoted text>
Penguins wings haven't changed into fins either. But they are wings being used as fins.
Look im not saying natural selection doesnt happen or that all animals are equal a penguin and a finch are different besides the fact that there both birds and i believe god created them both but no where in history has a penguin morphed imto a new animal and the same is true for any other anima
Nick

Canada

#111241 Apr 14, 2014
Discord wrote:
<quoted text>
So why do so many scientists support it? Are they part of some massive conspiracy?
Alot of scientists choose not to believe it, just like everyone else your choice is your choice but there has been many times when a scientist or some sort of professor has looked at evolution or studied animals and seen that creation is far to complex or seen holes in evolution and started believing that we were created
Nick

Canada

#111242 Apr 14, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry, but you don't have the slightest idea in the least. And whatever your step-daddy's been teaching ya, it ain't evolution.
We backed up evolution without breaking sweat for you a month ago. Of course we've been doing that on here for years long before you even turned up.
We're still waiting for just ONE of you fundies to turn up and actually refute the subject.
Even when someone hives you proof all you do is refuse it and come up with some random half baked idea as to why were wrong so even if anyone told you proof you wouldn't believe them.
Gosh I'm wondering why I'm wasting time on here anyways
Nick

Canada

#111243 Apr 14, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
You're lying. Lying is a sin in your religion. I GAVE you the passages from the Bible which state the shape of the Earth.
So you keep avoiding my questions:
Is the Bible LITERALLY true word for word all the way through? Or does it ever use parables, allegory or metaphor? The more you keep dodging this question you know the more you have to lie.
<quoted text>
Those passages you gave me don't mean that the earth is flat if you actually read the rest of those passages or took time to interpret them you'd stop with all this bs of saying the earth is flat in the bible and ya i sinned so what everyone sins and as long as i ask for forgiveness I'm fine
Nick

Canada

#111244 Apr 14, 2014
Has anyone ever talked to you and said what they actually believe or have you just blocked out everyone who has tried because honestly alot of the claims that you say we believe in aren't true so why dont you stick to your Theory and continue just trying to tell me why evolution is oh so true and flawless

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#111245 Apr 14, 2014
Nick wrote:
<quoted text>
Alot of scientists choose not to believe it, just like everyone else your choice is your choice but there has been many times when a scientist or some sort of professor has looked at evolution or studied animals and seen that creation is far to complex or seen holes in evolution and started believing that we were created
You might want to note at this point that is only a tiny handful of scientists (and many of the dissenters are not scientists) that reject evolution. Somewhere north of 99% of practicing scientists do accept it. But don't take my word for it. Look it up

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#111246 Apr 14, 2014
Nick wrote:
<quoted text>
Even when someone hives you proof all you do is refuse it and come up with some random half baked idea as to why were wrong so even if anyone told you proof you wouldn't believe them.
You haven't offered any proof. Just your opinions.
Nick wrote:
Gosh I'm wondering why I'm wasting time on here anyways
Indeed.
Nick

Canada

#111247 Apr 14, 2014
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
You haven't offered any proof. Just your opinions.
<quoted text>
Indeed.
Well the same goes for you ya know all youve done is given your opinions

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#111248 Apr 14, 2014
Nick wrote:
<quoted text>
I have an open opinion but i know enough to tell that theres alot of holes in the evolutionary theory so i choose not to believe it because its bs
I'm sure you've been told that, Nick. But it turns out not to be the case.

The ToE is ironclad, and describes precisely what happened.

If you have evidence to the contrary, please present it - I'll personally push for your nomination for the Nobel Prize.

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