Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 209504 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#108009 Jan 17, 2014
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
See? you already lied,...evolution is a process by which DNA can develop! that is utter lying bullshite!, or you simply don't know any better.
You might want to let the New York times in on your discovery about DNA development, you are the only one who knows about it
Leave the irony meters alone, Bo.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#108010 Jan 17, 2014
bohart wrote:
You spend far,far more time attacking God than defending your own idiotic beliefs, I don't blame you though.
How can I attack something which has not even been demonstrated to exist?

No Bo, what we attack are your uneducated assertions.
bohart wrote:
Lord!,....undirected natural forces make life all the time?
Yep. Do all plants require an intelligent planter?
bohart wrote:
Please explain how undirected natural forces made the first life.
Dunno yet.(shrug) Problem?
bohart wrote:
you can't, all you have is a belief that it happened.
Since life IS here then obviously life appeared somehow. Therefore no belief is required.
bohart wrote:
All you ever do is say jew magic, jew magic, while you believe in puddle magic.
Except there is nothing magic about chemistry. Unless you're claiming that all plants are magic.
bohart wrote:
I believe that life and it's complexity and the universe is the result of a great intelligence that is obvious to anyone not embedded in total denial to it.
Your beliefs are irrelevant.

However, I will point out that I have never denied the possibility of such a being. But there are three points you need to remember:

1 - If it exists, it's responsible for abiogenesis. Which is why it's rather stupid for you to argue against it, as you are simultaneously arguing against your claim.

2 - If it exists, it's responsible for evolution. Which is why it's rather stupid for you to argue against it, as you are simultaneously arguing against your claim.

3 - If it exists, it doesn't appear to have made itself amenable to the scientific method - it's not as if God pops its arm down now and then so we can do a blood test. Which is why it's rather stupid for you to claim it has anything at all to do with science. UNLESS you can demonstrate how it DOES pass the scientific method. So far no one on the planet has ever been able to do so in the entirety of human history.
bohart wrote:
Can't measure complexity! what a stupid evasion ,.I'll go slow for you what's more complex, a paper airplane , or the space shuttle?
I don't know, because I don't know what you're counting that gives one object a greater value than the other. I don't know how you're measuring complexity.

So go slow for me - obviously out of the space shuttle and the paper plane, one of them scores higher on your measuring scale. So how exactly is "complexity" being measured here? What precisely are you counting?
bohart wrote:
"the harmony of natural law reveals an intelligence of such superiority , that compared with it , all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection"
Albert Einstein
Misquoting an appeal to authority has no bearing on this discussion. Unless Einstein was able to demonstrate the existence of invisble Jew wizards that he didn't even believe in anyway. Remember, he was not an atheist, but he was not a theist either. Not that it matters which he was since his philosophical or theological opinions don't matter.

“Up with which, I will not put”

Since: Jul 08

Sao Paulo

#108011 Jan 17, 2014
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
You spend far,far more time attacking God than defending your own idiotic beliefs, I don't blame you though.
Lord!,....undirected natural forces make life all the time?
Please explain how undirected natural forces made the first life.
you can't, all you have is a belief that it happened.
All you ever do is say jew magic, jew magic, while you believe in puddle magic.
I believe that life and it's complexity and the universe is the result of a great intelligence that is obvious to anyone not embedded in total denial to it. Can't measure complexity! what a stupid evasion ,.I'll go slow for you what's more complex, a paper airplane , or the space shuttle?
"the harmony of natural law reveals an intelligence of such superiority , that compared with it , all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection"
Albert Einstein
He's not attacking God Bohart, he's attacking you, better yet your closed-mindedness on science. I've not read once where he directly opposed the existence of God - it's possible. improbable, but until someone can outright prove his existence, then only possible. I think most of the forum commenters opposing your stubbornness is aimed more at the Bible, and how benighted it is to claim it is the written rule based on facts, rather than a book of metaphors. But that's just my two cents. Take it at face value.

“Up with which, I will not put”

Since: Jul 08

Sao Paulo

#108012 Jan 17, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
How can I attack something which has not even been demonstrated to exist?
Oops, sorry Dude, you beat me to it.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#108013 Jan 17, 2014
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
Why don't you and these other ubber goobers try reading a book and educate yourselves about the universe by MIT professor Max Tegmark .....Mathematical Universe
He states that the universe isn't just described by math , but that it is math!
Math requires intelligence
or....just stick with the astronomical luck theory
Is that really his claim? That math requires intelligence THEREFORE Goddidit?

Or are you lying (again) and did you just tag that part on the end?

After all I'm sure you support transparency and wouldn't want to be perceived as a liar (again) would you?
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#108014 Jan 17, 2014
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you people lie all the time about life?....all the time life is made! by already existing life! that's reproduction!
Except that the Earth, and the universe, are finite. Therefore if we look at the evidence, life cannot go infinitely into the past. Ergo there must have been a point when life started. This has been observed in the geological record around 3.5 billion years ago.
bohart wrote:
That life is mere chemistry was debunked decades ago, it's a 19th century idea blown apart by electron microscopes showing life wasn't simple globs waiting to be manufactured.
Except you're wrong. Life IS pure chemistry through and through. However there is NOTHING in chemistry which claims things are just "simple blobs". In fact chemistry is EXTREMELY complicated. So for once in your life you can stop arguing against your straw-man. We don't support your straw-man so you will never have the satisfaction of debunking reailty itself whenever you knock that straw-man down.
bohart wrote:
DNA is a complex code, there is no known natural mechanism that creates coded information, none!
On the contrary, ONLY natural forces are observed to create DNA. The "code" you are describing (A,C,G,T) was invented by HUMANS. The code refers to CHEMICALS, called Adenine, Cytosine, Guanine and Thymine. And like all chemicals, certain ones react in certain ways. Just like hydrogen and oxygen create water. ACGT is no more a "code" than H2O is, but we know that natural chemical forces have no trouble making water.

So unless that is, you can describe the mechanisms your intelligent agent used and provide evidence of them.
bohart wrote:
It is impossible for Evolution to explain
Doesn't matter. The theory of evolution does not rely on abiogenesis. All the theory of evolution needs is for life to be here. Life IS here. Life evolves. Facts. In order to demonstrate otherwise you need to demonstrate that life is in fact NOT here.

Best of luck with that.
houh

Narberth, PA

#108015 Jan 17, 2014
tffy
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#108016 Jan 17, 2014
JM_Brazil wrote:
<quoted text>
Oops, sorry Dude, you beat me to it.
No worries, it's good to show that two people understand the arguments without prior communication being necessary.

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#108017 Jan 17, 2014
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you people lie all the time about life?....all the time life is made! by already existing life! that's reproduction!
That life is mere chemistry was debunked decades ago, it's a 19th century idea blown apart by electron microscopes showing life wasn't simple globs waiting to be manufactured.
DNA is a complex code, there is no known natural mechanism that creates coded information, none!
It is impossible for Evolution to explain
God reproduced

bio-chemistry and ultimately physics.

I suggest not hanging out in the 19 century.

Life is indeed not globs on the factory-floor

All life started simple. The build up took forever.

Really and here i puzzle on all those papers explaining the myriads of details!

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#108018 Jan 17, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh my dearest godbot – you would be surprised how sharp MAAT actually is. Just because you are not bright enough to comprehend is no ones fault but your own
Google “reality”
Hey dear1

Normally i never respond to Bo, but it has become very still in this part of topix.

Nice warm bath of flattery and praise, just what i needed.
i just sharpened my teeth on a new thesis on hybrid gods being all the vogue in the orient in the bronze age leading up to the iron-age.
To sign a contract between kings a Thousand semitic gods had to be brought forward.
That's a choice between famine and getting creative.

And i learned that crescent moon feasts actually had to do with the menses of bands of goddesses.

And many other things. As in people of the Levant executing burials with addition of graves for donkeys and servants!

The main question riding the thesis was not sufficiently answered. Some more sources should have been scrutinized.

But is was sufficiently clear that the isolated god or isolated religion never existed.
And everybody traveled like mad.
.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#108019 Jan 17, 2014
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you people lie all the time about life?....all the time life is made! by already existing life! that's reproduction!
That life is mere chemistry was debunked decades ago, it's a 19th century idea blown apart by electron microscopes showing life wasn't simple globs waiting to be manufactured.
DNA is a complex code, there is no known natural mechanism that creates coded information, none!
It is impossible for Evolution to explain
isn't the periodic table a code? we were even able to predict some of the elements that should be there, and what their properties would be long before we were able to find those elements. that would seem like coded information.

Level 2

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#108020 Jan 18, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Please provide a link to this debunk? I think I may find it interesting
The fact that godbot guesswork has been superseded by multiple (MULTIPLE) and independent lines of scientific discovery and DNA evidence really seems to upset you for some reason. That same DNA that you are quite happy to see as evidence in a court case and back it 100% you quite blatantly deny when it comes to having to defend your goddidit by magic belief.
Of course it is known how DNA is formed, It’s just 4 common chemicals that are built from 5 basic elements – These elements were available throughout the universe after the first proto stars exploded over 12 billion years ago. Jeez even a school kid knows this. As usual for a goddidit by magic fan, you are forgetting the one important principal - TIME
Nope it is impossible for you to understand, there is a very obvious difference
Please explain how DNA self assembled and where did that information come from

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#108021 Jan 18, 2014
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>Please explain how DNA self assembled and where did that information come from
Short answer: RNA.

Level 2

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#108022 Jan 18, 2014
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Short answer: RNA.
"Information is information, neither matter nor energy . No materialism that fails to take account of this can survive"

Norbert Weiner .........MIT mathematician and father of cybernetics

RNA ... isn't an answer, but you already knew that

“Proud Member”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

The Basket of Deplorables

#108023 Jan 18, 2014
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
"Information is information, neither matter nor energy . No materialism that fails to take account of this can survive"
Norbert Weiner .........MIT mathematician and father of cybernetics
RNA ... isn't an answer, but you already knew that
Why isn't RNA an answer?... Please elaborate to the best of your ability..

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#108024 Jan 19, 2014
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
See? you already lied,...evolution is a process by which DNA can develop! that is utter lying bullshite!, or you simply don't know any better.
You might want to let the New York times in on your discovery about DNA development, you are the only one who knows about it
Quote mine.

I said "DNA can develop complexity".

That is not the same thing and you know it.

Therefore you lied.

Epic fail.

Level 2

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#108025 Jan 19, 2014
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Quote mine.
I said "DNA can develop complexity".
That is not the same thing and you know it.
Therefore you lied.
Epic fail.
Where did the DNA code get it's information?

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#108026 Jan 19, 2014
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
Where did the DNA code get it's information?
I do not pretend to know how the first DNA molecule came to be. That is a problem that biochemists are working on, of course.

Now the question of where the information came from. Again, one assumes that the first DNA molecule or perhaps its RNA predecessor had little "information". However we do know that up to 10% of randomly produced RNA has enzyme capabilities (catalytic) and that would not be a difficult chance phenomenon to kick things off.

You guys love to talk about "information" but I prefer to speak of function. As function increases, then of course the information coding it has increased too.

Now, moving to real DNA. How is information created even now? Usually by gene duplication. Humans for starters have a varying number of copies for amylase, used to digest starches. When there are more copies, one of them can mutate without compromising total function, and may thereby develop new function. For example, a version of amylase that digests a slightly different starchy food better. there is nothing mysterious about this.

When there is duplication, that is new information. When there is duplication with some functional modification, that is undoubtedly new information.

And THAT is what I mean by "DNA complexity increasing" through an evolutionary process. Whole families of proteins (and their genetic sequence) have been shown to track back in a hierarchy to a few simpler starters, such as the globin group.

“When you treat people as they ”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#108027 Jan 19, 2014
MAAT wrote:
<quoted text> Hey dear1
Normally i never respond to Bo, but it has become very still in this part of topix.
Nice warm bath of flattery and praise, just what i needed.
i just sharpened my teeth on a new thesis on hybrid gods being all the vogue in the orient in the bronze age leading up to the iron-age.
To sign a contract between kings a Thousand semitic gods had to be brought forward.
That's a choice between famine and getting creative.
And i learned that crescent moon feasts actually had to do with the menses of bands of goddesses.
And many other things. As in people of the Levant executing burials with addition of graves for donkeys and servants!
The main question riding the thesis was not sufficiently answered. Some more sources should have been scrutinized.
But is was sufficiently clear that the isolated god or isolated religion never existed.
And everybody traveled like mad.
.
I think the babble could supply some info, not sure of the verse but it was in exodus I think where the Hebrew god appeared and flipped his lid because the escaped slaves were having a party to other gods

Also the psalms

“When you treat people as they ”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#108028 Jan 19, 2014
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
Please explain how DNA self assembled and where did that information come from
I am not here to give you 3 years of university education. You want to find out about chemistry 101+ then teach yourself.

Perhaps you could invest in a primer, I can recommend “DNA from the Beginning”, I have no financial motive but assure you that it’s pretty good.

http://www.dnalc.org/websites/dnaftb.html...

Or even more easily try cooking a good curry one evening, same principle, a bunch of chemicals and a process with a great result

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Weird Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
A six word game (Dec '08) 13 min Aussie Kev 20,116
Last two letters into two new words... (Jun '15) 16 min Aussie Kev 4,250
*add A word / drop a word* (Nov '12) 17 min Princess Hey 13,997
News Police Respond To St. Cloud Mall On Reports Of ... 20 min Emerald 144
+=Keep 1 Drop 1=+ 3 STACK (Mar '13) 25 min Princess Hey 10,614
Change-one-of-six-letters (Dec '12) 26 min SweLL GirL 9,280
5 Letter Word, Change 1 Letter (Oct '15) 37 min SweLL GirL 4,041
What turns you on ? (Aug '11) 1 hr Poppyann 411
2words into 2new words (May '12) 2 hr Poppyann 5,050
What song are you listening to right now? (Apr '08) 2 hr Jethro 200,772
El's Kitchen (Feb '09) 6 hr Hypocrite Hunter 61,407
JUST SAY SOMETHING. Whatever comes to mind!! (Aug '09) 6 hr -Mo Jo- 33,655
More from around the web