Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 219629 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#107970 Jan 15, 2014
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
Lord! abiogenesis doesn't violate any natural laws?....uh, biogenesis? that life only comes from existing life? ever heard of it? or perhaps using the scientific method you can give us one, just ONE example of inanimate matter coming to life on it's own.
I like your faith based statement that it hasn't been duplicated or observed yet, this speaks well of your beliefs that are based on your faith rather than evidence.
Aah shaddap, Blowhard.
You dote on Pasteur's "law" because it says exactly what you want to hear. It is true that mice do not spawn from sawdust and lint. It is true that by definition life does not exist in a sterile environment. It is false that complex organic chemical reactions/combinations cannot and do not occur without your (or your God's) assistance. How is it that despite enormous interest for thousands of years fanatics have not yet provided any credible evidence of YHWH, but You feel qualified to quickly and loudly defame experiments in organic chemistry which began only a few decades ago? For no other reason than because any rational investigation is a threat to your emotional investment in mythology.

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#107971 Jan 15, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Ahh right, do you know the meaning of the word void?
To make it more interesting
I appears to me that TOHU WA BOHU is a
disguised TOKU WA POKU , inside out.

In this case the earth MY DOUBLE, since the hebrew name of g-d means life- connected.
In the concept ligh we find the connection, as in the ancient meaning of logos-lifefire.
And luckily the lightswitch is found and it is good: awareness.
All points to awareness by/of outward actions and judging.
elohim-judges

So christians finding god or jesus missed the entire point. the wrong logos, so to say.

I just let woodtick take the honours.
I also translate gen 1:1differently using the non abstract ancient hebrew.

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#107972 Jan 15, 2014
possessive determiners, e.g. t&#333;ku (my)
topu , assembled, in a body
It also works in maori polynesian.
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#107973 Jan 15, 2014
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
Aah shaddap, Blowhard.
You dote on Pasteur's "law" because it says exactly what you want to hear.
Ah, the fundies THINK it does, but it doesn't. As it's explicitly AGAINST spontaneous generation, it is against creationism. Problem with fundies they aren't very good at grasping basic English, never mind basic science.

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#107974 Jan 15, 2014
http://www.hebrew-translation.org/hebrew/eloh...
an example
ofcourse the same message is repeated ad nauseam in all sorts of ways troughout the book and on all levels.

“ad victoriam”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#107975 Jan 15, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> That might have something to do with Omnipresence. Refer Isaiah 40:21 > to end of chapter.

It might have something to do with stupid.

Level 2

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#107976 Jan 15, 2014
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
Aah shaddap, Blowhard.
You dote on Pasteur's "law" because it says exactly what you want to hear. It is true that mice do not spawn from sawdust and lint. It is true that by definition life does not exist in a sterile environment. It is false that complex organic chemical reactions/combinations cannot and do not occur without your (or your God's) assistance. How is it that despite enormous interest for thousands of years fanatics have not yet provided any credible evidence of YHWH, but You feel qualified to quickly and loudly defame experiments in organic chemistry which began only a few decades ago? For no other reason than because any rational investigation is a threat to your emotional investment in mythology.
Here is the stupid puddlegooist in all his glory, there is absolutely ZERO evidence to support life springing to existence on it's own so how do the comic fools reply?....there is no evidence of god! Defame experiments! hell, they don't need me they all failed you azzhole!

Level 2

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#107977 Jan 15, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Ah, the fundies THINK it does, but it doesn't. As it's explicitly AGAINST spontaneous generation, it is against creationism. Problem with fundies they aren't very good at grasping basic English, never mind basic science.
Of all the idiots on here you are the King, the SETI program which searches the universe for some kind of a coherent signal, something as simple as a SOS, or morse code would be recognized as requiring intelligence to produce and taken as a given for proof of extraterrestrial intelligence. Yet when you blind religious goobers are faced with the enormous complexity of the DNA code ,which recently was discovered to have a second layer of information imbedded ,you call that the product of chance!, no intelligence , mere undirected natural forces!You are like my grandfathers mule , equipped with blinders to avoid any and all distractions from your task. Protecting your world view

I have avoided quoted the bible here because it casts pearls before swine, but it does have a verse perfect for you and your deniers of intelligent reasoning

the fool has said there is no God

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#107978 Jan 15, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> Yes and the source of all life. <quoted text> Life and sufficient Cause to effect all life. That is the theory. Whereas inert matter absent Intelligence is insufficient cause. It better explains the origins than does alternative non God theories. Not hard to understand ifone can look at with dispassion. That is a big problem with many non believers. Negative emotional reactions.
Well you can believe whatever you want, but it isn't science.

I find that it is the creationists/fundamentalists that exhibit the predominance of negative emotional reactions in these discussions. I don't know of any agnostic or atheist terrorist groups, but there are plenty of fundamentalist Christian terrorist groups.

If you look at the evidence objectively, it leads to the realistic conclusion that evolution is happening.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#107979 Jan 15, 2014
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
Of all the idiots on here you are the King, the SETI program which searches the universe for some kind of a coherent signal, something as simple as a SOS, or morse code would be recognized as requiring intelligence to produce and taken as a given for proof of extraterrestrial intelligence. Yet when you blind religious goobers are faced with the enormous complexity of the DNA code ,which recently was discovered to have a second layer of information imbedded ,you call that the product of chance!, no intelligence , mere undirected natural forces!You are like my grandfathers mule , equipped with blinders to avoid any and all distractions from your task. Protecting your world view
I have avoided quoted the bible here because it casts pearls before swine, but it does have a verse perfect for you and your deniers of intelligent reasoning
the fool has said there is no God
Sad and ignorant projection.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#107980 Jan 15, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes we have
Hello Christine. Hope you doing well.

I would add that "junk" DNA was not held up as some pillar of evolution either.

Level 2

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#107981 Jan 15, 2014
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>Sad and ignorant projection.
Sad alright ,

Keep repeating your debate points allocated by your goober masters

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#107982 Jan 16, 2014
Matt JTX wrote:
<quoted text>failed observations about DNA, such that their Darwinian evolution paradigm has collapsed. Not that long ago, junk DNA was being defended as an important element of the Darwinian evolution "yea right"
False. Junk DNA was never a core or essential part of evolutionary theory. I was even surprised by it when I first learned of it.

Its just that if it exists, evolution can accommodate it, and ID cannot.

And as for there being no junk DNA, that is rubbish too. Even the most optimistic researchers still only expect about 20% of DNA to show useful function. There are big chunks that endlessly transcribe useless RNA which is then immediately broken down by the cell, but that is not "function" in the useful sense, merely "not totally inert".

There are still pseudogenes and ERVs that are clearly broken or useless. And the pattern of their insertion and breakdown not only supports the junk DNA case, it independently supports common ancestry for different reasons.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#107983 Jan 16, 2014
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
Of all the idiots on here you are the King, the SETI program which searches the universe for some kind of a coherent signal, something as simple as a SOS, or morse code would be recognized as requiring intelligence to produce and taken as a given for proof of extraterrestrial intelligence. Yet when you blind religious goobers are faced with the enormous complexity of the DNA code ,which recently was discovered to have a second layer of information imbedded ,you call that the product of chance!, no intelligence , mere undirected natural forces!You are like my grandfathers mule , equipped with blinders to avoid any and all distractions from your task. Protecting your world view
I have avoided quoted the bible here because it casts pearls before swine, but it does have a verse perfect for you and your deniers of intelligent reasoning
the fool has said there is no God
Yawn. Evolution does not claim there is no God.

Yawn. The point about evolution is that it shows a process by which things like DNA can develop complexity. Talk about casting a pearl before swine - you refuse to even understand the mechanism that you claim to know cannot happen. Then call anyone who has learned it and does understand it an idiot, and moreover understand how it explains the fossil record and the genome extremely well....yes, these are the idiots. Not an ignorant blow-off like you, resolute in your ignorance and proud of your stupidity, grabbing one debunked objection after another from your little sack of polished turds and flinging them about.

“When you treat people as they ”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#107984 Jan 16, 2014
MAAT wrote:
<quoted text>
To make it more interesting
I appears to me that TOHU WA BOHU is a
disguised TOKU WA POKU , inside out.
In this case the earth MY DOUBLE, since the hebrew name of g-d means life- connected.
In the concept ligh we find the connection, as in the ancient meaning of logos-lifefire.
And luckily the lightswitch is found and it is good: awareness.
All points to awareness by/of outward actions and judging.
elohim-judges
So christians finding god or jesus missed the entire point. the wrong logos, so to say.
I just let woodtick take the honours.
I also translate gen 1:1differently using the non abstract ancient hebrew.
I never could get my head around the hebrew language so am reduced to the English (and a little Latin) versions of the babble.

But you are correct that christians always seem to (repeatedly) miss (or deliberately ignore) the point not only in the original Tanakh but more so on the selectively cloned book of the OT.

“When you treat people as they ”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#107985 Jan 16, 2014
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>Hello Christine. Hope you doing well.
I would add that "junk" DNA was not held up as some pillar of evolution either.
Hi Dan.

It’s only a wiki but it tends to be quite accurate

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noncoding_DNA
“Initially, a large proportion of noncoding DNA had no known biological function and was therefore sometimes referred to as "junk DNA", particularly in the lay press. However, it has been known for decades that many noncoding sequences are functional. These include genes for functional RNA molecules (see above) and sequences such as origins of replication, centromeres, and telomeres.”

There is quite a lot of more academic stuff on google scholar under the search “junk DNA”- example

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v443/n71...
“Genetics: Junk DNA as an evolutionary force”

And

http://www.genetics.org/content/152/2/675.sho...
Evidence of Selection on Silent Site Base Composition in Mammals: Potential Implications for the Evolution of Isochores and Junk DNA

And even more under “noncoding DNA”

Funny how creatards are picking up outdated ideas from the “lay” press and claiming it as revelation that proves there was no evolution and goddidit by magic when there is so much evidence to the contrary. Why do they need to do this?
anonymous

Absecon, NJ

#107986 Jan 16, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Shame you have no evidence and no theory. That's why your "theory" doesn't actually EXPLAIN anything. Not to mention you just got debunked.
Again.
As usual.
There may or may not be a God, there's no way to tell scientifically. But if it exists? You know all that sciencey stuff you don't like? It did them.
It's not really true that you can't scientifically prove the existence of "God" but then again, you have to define your "god" first. Ultimately, all we can really establish is the idea of an entity that exists outside of space-time that engages in some sort of "manipulation" of events in a manner that clearly defies random chance at the sub-atomic level. There would be no proof of "creation", just evidence of intelligence. And even that would presume that such an "intelligence" is not out to defy our efforts to scientifically demonstrate its existence.

For my part, I'd have to ask, why is it so important to find such an entity? I can live with the reality of my accidental existence. I'm not some smug eldest son who's trying to impress the king's court with my brand of magic.

No, show me events that defy physics, or majikal voices in my head, and I'll be very convinced that human scheming of the criminal sort is at work. I'm not looking for an ego prop. I'm only interested in the money!
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#107987 Jan 16, 2014
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
Here is the stupid puddlegooist in all his glory, there is absolutely ZERO evidence to support life springing to existence on it's own so how do the comic fools reply?....there is no evidence of god! Defame experiments! hell, they don't need me they all failed you azzhole!
Since there is absolutely zero evidence of God but plenty of evidence of life then that's at least tentative evidence that life developed on its own.

But the theory of evolution does not rely on abiogenesis.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#107988 Jan 16, 2014
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
Of all the idiots on here you are the King, the SETI program which searches the universe for some kind of a coherent signal, something as simple as a SOS, or morse code would be recognized as requiring intelligence to produce and taken as a given for proof of extraterrestrial intelligence. Yet when you blind religious goobers are faced with the enormous complexity of the DNA code ,which recently was discovered to have a second layer of information imbedded
Yes, note SETI relies on SIMPLE radio patterns rather than complex ones. This is because simple patterns are far more easier to recognise than complex ones, and therefore are far more likely to be used if someone wanted to make other civilizations in space recognise that they were here. There is a REASON why even the guys at SETI came out and said ID was crap.

You on the other hand claim "complexity" is evidence of intelligence but you have no idea on how to measure it in the first place. This kinda undercuts your claims big time.
bohart wrote:
you call that the product of chance!
Except that you're lying.

So how many times do I have to explain to you that we have NEVER claimed it happened by "chance", and why? Too many to count. So why do you continue to lie about our claims?

An apple will always fall down. It will not fall up or sideways or diagonally "by chance" (unless other forces intervene), yet despite this gravity apparently works without any intelligent intervention being necessary.

Ergo it is NOT "chance".
bohart wrote:
no intelligence , mere undirected natural forces!
And undirected natural forces make life all the time.
bohart wrote:
You are like my grandfathers mule , equipped with blinders to avoid any and all distractions from your task. Protecting your world view
Look Bo, all you have to demonstrate your claims is tell us who or what your "intelligent designer" is, what it did, how it did it, where it did it, when it did it, and how this can be determined in an objective manner via the scientific method.
bohart wrote:
I have avoided quoted the bible here because it casts pearls before swine, but it does have a verse perfect for you and your deniers of intelligent reasoning
the fool has said there is no God
OH, so really all this is about God? Well no need to worry, since neither abiogenesis nor evolution, or indeed any other scientific concept claims that God definitely did not do it. Doesn't claim it did either, but doesn't say it didn't. Science is NOT atheism. So it's up to you if you prefer to place limits on an Almighty being capable of creating universes in its spare time.

But at least now you can't claim that your objections have any relevance to science. As in reality all your beefs are is that you reject science cuz you think an invisible magic Jew didit. I can see now you will never be able to compete with anybody here scientifically as your only interest is apologetics. This is why you lose every argument you attempt as you NEVER bother to address the content of people's posts. You may as well just start threatening us with eternal damnation for merely disagreeing with your religious opinions, ya know, kinda like the Phelps family.(shrug)
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#107989 Jan 16, 2014
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
Sad alright ,
Keep repeating your debate points allocated by your goober masters
Points which YOU can't understand, or ever refute.

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