Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#107904 Jan 8, 2014
woodtick57 wrote:

<quoted text>Because it was a backwater, minor little nowhere.
when Pompey finally strode through the gates of jerusalem had long since passed its economic and cultural zenith. Cicero even called it the "hole in the corner" of the Roman empire. the only reason they were even allowed to keep their temple was it was a good way to rule the jews via the high priests they picked.
even when the babylonians conquered the area, Cyrus let the jews return to jerusalem because he considered them an irrelevant backwater of little interest or concern to an empire that stretched across Asia... the jews felt so grateful for this, the prophet Isaiah anointed Cyrus as messiah.
history is fun!
De Angelo of Memphis.((like what...they hold the carpet up when you pass!)
Maybe they were just humble enough to not wanna go a conquer everything that they laid their eyes on like we see in the Caucasians and the Mongolians...tearing the land as they thirsted only for MORE power and MORE territory. Yea, maybe they weren't that much of a threat because they were humble enough to appreciate what they had, which the "big guys" to for weakness!

Two birds...

Well yes Woodtick after having been nuovemeted and enslaved they of the upperclass that make history were indeed pretty glad to be restored. Nowadays one should not expect this.
Yesterday i came across a book that showed the jews had been a bane to various conquerors for centuries.
In Galilee the huge Roman empire lost. The rapta aquila!
Do you really think there would have been so much negative publicity (the gospel at all that) if they had been such an irrelevant backwater.
they lived everywhere and counted at that time 20% of the popuation of the empire. And like the germans and german/anglo-saxon Boudica and the Scott they fought as the Celts also once did.
The Celts were also treated horrifficly.
The Romans even has several walls build. one in Africa, Hadrianus wall and the one spanning al Europe. As long as they could regulate sheep not passing they considerd themselves safe. Eco-terrors those sheep.

De Angelo nothing stopped them but the trouble all invaders have as in being cut of from supply lines.
Even the mere suggestion of any noble gesture i consider misplaced.
Why do you think they razed a town to the ground that was not even in a province of theirs!

Ceasar allready started with misinformation.
And the trouble with him was that he had to be revered like a god.

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#107905 Jan 8, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote

Something along the lines of he discussion between intelligent design and all well-thinking people doing no damages. or expressing such a sentiment.

(I've been scrolling back forever but can't find the Original)

Well, wondering how Michael Behe was doing I looked him up on wiki. Seems i confused him with a dutch Michael also fervent adept, but just to get a job in America. Europe still perceives America as an unfree country, where one has to be christian and in favout of the death-penalty in order to have a job at a government institution.
But soit.

It dawned on me that every trial reduces the chances of kids ever being allowed to have a good education.

Compare that to Behe:
Behe grew up in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, where he attended grade school at St. Margaret Mary's Parochial School and later graduated from Bishop McDevitt High School.[8][9] He graduated from Drexel University in 1974 with a Bachelor of Science in chemistry. He received his PhD in biochemistry at the University of Pennsylvania in 1978 for his dissertation research on sickle-cell disease. From 1978 to 1982, he did postdoctoral work on DNA structure at the National Institutes of Health. From 1982 to 1985, he was assistant professor of chemistry at Queens College in New York City, where he met his wife, Celeste. In 1985, he moved to Lehigh University and is currently a Professor of Biochemistry. Due to Behe's views on evolution, Lehigh University exhibits the following disclaimer on its website:

While we respect Prof. Behe's right to express his views, they are his alone and are in no way endorsed by the department. It is our collective position that intelligent design has no basis in science, has not been tested experimentally and should not be regarded as scientific.[10]

Nevertheless the man still has a job and had a more then full share of the tax dollars in education.

Compare that to:
In Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District, the first direct challenge brought in United States federal courts to an attempt to mandate the teaching of intelligent design on First Amendment grounds, Behe was called as a primary witness for the defense and asked to support the idea that intelligent design was legitimate science. Some of the most crucial exchanges in the trial occurred during Behe's cross-examination, where his testimony would prove devastating to the defense. Behe was forced to concede that "there are no peer reviewed articles by anyone advocating for intelligent design supported by pertinent experiments or calculations which provide detailed rigorous accounts of how intelligent design of any biological system occurred"[43] and that his definition of 'theory' as applied to intelligent design was so loose that astrology would also qualify.[44

My point is not so much the intellectual arguements, but that the 8 kids that sued would ofcource not have changed their mind, nor their parents. Usually grassroot groups have more effect. So they will show themselves aggrieved and the snowball rolls. Science will not be educated to more and more Americans.
The nett effect is ever more trials since in America they can't do it in one go. Freedom of speech getting in the way. And thus a population dumbing down. Starting with mabe 8 at a time but nevertheless.

The parents are not bothered nor is Behe.

“Up with which, I will not put”

Since: Jul 08

Sao Paulo

#107908 Jan 14, 2014
Wow - I think the E vs. C topic is broken.

*standing on desk, hands cupped around mouth* HELLOOOOOOO...

Since: Mar 11

Minnesota's North Coast

#107909 Jan 14, 2014
JM_Brazil wrote:
Wow - I think the E vs. C topic is broken.
*standing on desk, hands cupped around mouth* HELLOOOOOOO...
Dr. Livingstone, I presume?
cancer suxs

Owatonna, MN

#107910 Jan 14, 2014
Facts(evolution) or stone age myth(creation).

Easy choice for sane people.

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#107911 Jan 14, 2014
JM_Brazil wrote:
Wow - I think the E vs. C topic is broken.
*standing on desk, hands cupped around mouth* HELLOOOOOOO...
HELLOOOOOOO... HELLOOooooo... hellooooooo... right back at ya
Patriot

Nashville, TN

#107912 Jan 14, 2014
cancer suxs wrote:
Facts(evolution) or stone age myth(creation).
Easy choice for sane people.
the"facts" as you present ignore 3 apparent things. The science tries to circumvent 1, presence of matter, 2, force, 3, force acting on matter in the vaccum of space in the beginning. Also go to the book of Job Chapter 26 verses 7-10. Job lived around 1500 B.C. and roughly 3000 years before Columbus. IN the text it states how the earth is suspended, it is round and rotates thus having day and night. How could have Job known that unless he was given that information by inspiration from God? It would take much more faith to believe such cockamamy theroies such as what Hawken puts out than believe the Bible. Hawken said before there was time God could not have existed, his baseball cap is a little too tight on his noggin if he things such as that.
cancer suxs

Owatonna, MN

#107913 Jan 14, 2014
Patriot wrote:
<quoted text> the"facts" as you present ignore 3 apparent things. The science tries to circumvent 1, presence of matter, 2, force, 3, force acting on matter in the vaccum of space in the beginning. Also go to the book of Job Chapter 26 verses 7-10. Job lived around 1500 B.C. and roughly 3000 years before Columbus. IN the text it states how the earth is suspended, it is round and rotates thus having day and night. How could have Job known that unless he was given that information by inspiration from God? It would take much more faith to believe such cockamamy theroies such as what Hawken puts out than believe the Bible. Hawken said before there was time God could not have existed, his baseball cap is a little too tight on his noggin if he things such as that.
You cant use the buybull. Books of myth hold no sway in SANE chat. Anyway creation is myth and has not one thing to back it up outside the buybull.
Patriot

Nashville, TN

#107914 Jan 14, 2014
cancer suxs wrote:
<quoted text>
You cant use the buybull. Books of myth hold no sway in SANE chat. Anyway creation is myth and has not one thing to back it up outside the buybull.
Just cast a gaze into the northern sky at night and tell us what it there. Just read the passage I alluded to and your questions will be answered. You say the Bible is myth, Columbus confirmed the "myth" as you call it, when he found the earth was round 3000 years after the Bible said that was the case.Facts confirmed do not constitute a myth friend
cancer suxs

Owatonna, MN

#107915 Jan 14, 2014
Patriot wrote:
<quoted text> Just cast a gaze into the northern sky at night and tell us what it there. Just read the passage I alluded to and your questions will be answered. You say the Bible is myth, Columbus confirmed the "myth" as you call it, when he found the earth was round 3000 years after the Bible said that was the case.Facts confirmed do not constitute a myth friend
LOL...Ok. I will stick with fact. You live in the stone age. Oh and don't call me friend. I could never be a friend with a buybull thumping moron. I only am friends with sane people.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#107916 Jan 14, 2014
Patriot wrote:
<quoted text> Just cast a gaze into the northern sky at night and tell us what it there. Just read the passage I alluded to and your questions will be answered. You say the Bible is myth, Columbus confirmed the "myth" as you call it, when he found the earth was round 3000 years after the Bible said that was the case.Facts confirmed do not constitute a myth friend
The Greek concept of a spherical Earth predates Columbus by almost 2000 years. The concept is at least as old as the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Myth Busters would not be impressed.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#107917 Jan 14, 2014
Patriot wrote:
<quoted text> Just cast a gaze into the northern sky at night and tell us what it there. Just read the passage I alluded to and your questions will be answered. You say the Bible is myth, Columbus confirmed the "myth" as you call it, when he found the earth was round 3000 years after the Bible said that was the case.Facts confirmed do not constitute a myth friend
You are correct.

The Bible *DOES* say the Earth is "round".

The problem is, it is NOT round (like a dinner plate). It is SPHERICAL. Like a ball.

And before you offer a hollow excuse, the ancient Hebrew language did have a word for "sphere", or "ball".

Since: Mar 11

Minnesota's North Coast

#107918 Jan 14, 2014
Patriot wrote:
<quoted text> Just cast a gaze into the northern sky at night and tell us what it there. Just read the passage I alluded to and your questions will be answered. You say the Bible is myth, Columbus confirmed the "myth" as you call it, when he found the earth was round 3000 years after the Bible said that was the case.Facts confirmed do not constitute a myth friend
in fact, the first person to confirm the Earth was a sphere did it with scientific experimentation in the third century BCE.

try to learn about your own world and its history before making an ass of yourself...
Patriot

Nashville, TN

#107919 Jan 14, 2014
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
You are correct.
The Bible *DOES* say the Earth is "round".
The problem is, it is NOT round (like a dinner plate). It is SPHERICAL. Like a ball.
And before you offer a hollow excuse, the ancient Hebrew language did have a word for "sphere", or "ball".
Sphere is more accurate term than round. I was just making the point to the other poster. The word was translated circular in the passage in Job,. A good book is by Dr. Jeff Miller the title is Science VS Evolution.it points out most findings of scientists are not really facts but speculations, one thing the evolutionists ignore is that no scientist has made life from non living matter like our creator did.

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#107920 Jan 14, 2014
Patriot wrote:
<quoted text> the"facts" as you present ignore 3 apparent things. The science tries to circumvent 1, presence of matter, 2, force, 3, force acting on matter in the vaccum of space in the beginning. Also go to the book of Job Chapter 26 verses 7-10. Job lived around 1500 B.C. and roughly 3000 years before Columbus. IN the text it states how the earth is suspended, it is round and rotates thus having day and night. How could have Job known that unless he was given that information by inspiration from God? It would take much more faith to believe such cockamamy theroies such as what Hawken puts out than believe the Bible. Hawken said before there was time God could not have existed, his baseball cap is a little too tight on his noggin if he things such as that.
1/ Science does not attempt to circumvent matter in fact, the fact that you are posting on the internet makes use of several aspects of E=MC^2. Now maybe you do not have the understanding/intelligence to comprehend that but that my dear is your problem.

2/ Science does not attempt to circumvent force, from the ancient Greeks through Newton to up to the minute cosmology and particle physics, force is analysed and used on a moment by moment basis.

3/ Take a look at the perimeter institute ( http://www.perimeterinstitute.ca/ ) before lying about what you dont understand. Science is working to comprehend not what happened after the BB (because it knows) but before too. Science knows pretty precisely the forces that existed right back to 10^-34th of a second after the BB (thats a tiny fraction of a second, billions of times faster than the fastest clock tick of the fastest computer). The maths now exist to model what happened prior to that microscopic time. This is mathematical model (several models, 27 that I know of) based on best estimate and parameters that physically exist.

Tell me, why do you need to lie to validate your god to yourself?

As for the rest of your rambling, such nonsense has been dealt with multiple times on multiple threads. I have provided you with evidence to contradict your statements on more than one occasion, which you seem to have ignored and I know that many other people have too so I see no need to bang my head against a wall just to big up your ego.
Patriot

Nashville, TN

#107921 Jan 14, 2014
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
The Greek concept of a spherical Earth predates Columbus by almost 2000 years. The concept is at least as old as the Dead Sea Scrolls.
Myth Busters would not be impressed.
Go to Romans 1:18-23 there it shows that folks deny/ignore God and resort to silly speculations to explain creation and other things
cancer suxs

Owatonna, MN

#107923 Jan 14, 2014
Patriot wrote:
<quoted text>Go to Romans 1:18-23 there it shows that folks deny/ignore God and resort to silly speculations to explain creation and other things
The buybull is made up crap. Written by ignorant goat herders. This is 2014 your BS holds no sway in todays world.
Patriot

Nashville, TN

#107924 Jan 14, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
1/ Science does not attempt to circumvent matter in fact, the fact that you are posting on the internet makes use of several aspects of E=MC^2. Now maybe you do not have the understanding/intelligence to comprehend that but that my dear is your problem.
2/ Science does not attempt to circumvent force, from the ancient Greeks through Newton to up to the minute cosmology and particle physics, force is analysed and used on a moment by moment basis.
3/ Take a look at the perimeter institute ( http://www.perimeterinstitute.ca/ ) before lying about what you dont understand. Science is working to comprehend not what happened after the BB (because it knows) but before too. Science knows pretty precisely the forces that existed right back to 10^-34th of a second after the BB (thats a tiny fraction of a second, billions of times faster than the fastest clock tick of the fastest computer). The maths now exist to model what happened prior to that microscopic time. This is mathematical model (several models, 27 that I know of) based on best estimate and parameters that physically exist.
Tell me, why do you need to lie to validate your god to yourself?
As for the rest of your rambling, such nonsense has been dealt with multiple times on multiple threads. I have provided you with evidence to contradict your statements on more than one occasion, which you seem to have ignored and I know that many other people have too so I see no need to bang my head against a wall just to big up your ego.
The "law" of rational reason states one draws conclusion from availible evidence, if one such as scientists draw conclusions lacking evidence(speculations) their reasoning is not rational. Also scientists ignore that laws such as gravity, thermodynamics etc in order to be a law it must have a writer of the law, laws do not write themselves. The universe for example has 1, to always have existed, 2, created itself 3, or outside power create it. by laws such as thermodynamics invalidate the first 2 options, scientists say the universe is winding down, in order to be winding it must have been fully wound sometime in the past.
Patriot

Nashville, TN

#107925 Jan 14, 2014
Christine M, take into account the law of biogenetics which states life comes from life. The creaton account invalidates that since life was created from nonliving matter

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#107926 Jan 14, 2014
Patriot wrote:
<quoted text>Sphere is more accurate term than round. I was just making the point to the other poster. The word was translated circular in the passage in Job,.


Meh. Tell that to *THIS* guy. He will PROVE to you that the world is flat (round, not spherical), and the center of the universe. Oh, and he'll use Bible verses to document his proof.

http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/flatearth...

(including the following Bible verses)

~ I Chronicles 16:30: "He has fixed the earth firm, immovable."
~ Psalm 93:1: "Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm..."
~ Psalm 96:10: "He has fixed the earth firm, immovable..."
~ Psalm 104:5: "Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken."
~ Isaiah 45:18: "...who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast..."
Patriot wrote:
<quoted text>A good book is by Dr. Jeff Miller the title is Science VS Evolution.it points out most findings of scientists are not really facts but speculations,
Science uses evidence to bolster their conclusions. While these conclusions might be altered to some degree, or revised with additional and better evidence, the term "speculation" is a stretch. Meanwhile, it took about 350 years for the Catholic church to apologize to Galileo for his "speculation" that the Sun was the center of the solar system (and it is, btw). This bit of heresy used to have people burnt at the stake.
Patriot wrote:
<quoted text>one thing the evolutionists ignore is that no scientist has made life from non living matter like our creator did.
Biochemistry is a fairly new science. We've had about 50+/- years of serious work at trying to discover the possible routes of abiogenesis. But we're getting V - E - R - Y close:

"In 2010, Craig Venter and his colleagues inserted a wholly artificial chromosome into a bacterial cell and created the first artificial life form (a.k.a. "dial-a-genome").[12 ] While it may seem like artificial abiogenesis, it nevertheless involved some major cheating: the artificial chromosome was constructed using gene sequences of an existing organism. "

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Abiogenesis

And keep in mind that even though science has not yet created life from non-life, it does not automatically mean that there is a Supreme Being that DID. It just means that we have not created life from non-life....YET.

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