Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 197485 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#107886 Jan 7, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> A little fuzzy on your last sentence. What dogma and agenda are you referring to? A lot of your Iders are not Christian. There is an atheist who defends intelligent design. A lot of evos are christian. They just leave God out of the mix when doing their work. Either way, from an outsiders POV there appears to be a cold war going on which is unusual since most of us put aside our differences to do our jobs and work together. Some even become friends in spite of our differences. The animosity between the two camps is disturbing. Hopefully it is mostly cosmetic.
http://www.examiner.com/article/atheist-defen...
yes, there are stupid atheists...for the most part they tend to be intelligent.

how can an atheist even consider a designer of the universe? seems he's not an atheist...
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#107887 Jan 7, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> A little fuzzy on your last sentence. What dogma and agenda are you referring to? A lot of your Iders are not Christian.
False. 99% are Protestant evangelicals. There may be one Catholic and a Moonie (Jonathan Wells) for variety.

Read the Wedge Document from the Discovery Institute and you will see why I say that there would be no ID movement if there were no Christianity. They are on a crusade to get Bible Christianity back in the schools, basically, by whatever deceptive strategies they can employ.
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> A lot of evos are christian. They just leave God out of the mix when doing their work.
Yes, that means they are SCIENTISTS DOING SCIENCE, whatever their personal religious or philosophical beliefs. Get the point?

Contrast that to your ID and Creationists who start with a religious premise and twist everything around to try and fit that. These folks are NOT doing science.
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text>Either way, from an outsiders POV there appears to be a cold war going on which is unusual since most of us put aside our differences to do our jobs and work together.
The reason there is a "cold war" is that the Christians involved have, for decades, try to deceptively invade the science classes of our public schools with their religion and have been beaten back repeatedly by our Supreme and District courts,a s well as by scientists and science organizations all around the nation.
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> The animosity between the two camps is disturbing. Hopefully it is mostly cosmetic.
No, it runs very deeply, and justifiably so.

If you are an established scientist in biology like Stephen Jay Gould was, for example, how could you ever "work together" with evangelical Christians who ignorantly criticize science by quote-mining your published papers and public comments and try and dishonestly make it seem as if you actually DISPUTE evolution, when instead you are one of the leading lights of evolutions science?

Why would real scientists "work together" with religious apologists who are trying to tear down 150 years of established science in order to further and publicly promote their backward Bible beliefs?

“Up with which, I will not put”

Since: Jul 08

Sao Paulo

#107888 Jan 8, 2014
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> OK, do you agree that English originated in England? if yes, it belongs to them by origin. Ok?
Wow Charles, are you STILL on insisting this point? You sound like a stubborn little kid.
If England actually believed they OWNED English, they would be charging other countries royalties for using it. Imagine having to pay a language tax.

“Up with which, I will not put”

Since: Jul 08

Sao Paulo

#107889 Jan 8, 2014
Gillette wrote:
<quoted text>
...Scroll to the very bottom, where you read:
"6. No apparent, perceived or claimed evidence in any field, including history and chronology, can be valid if it contradicts the Scriptural record."
In other words, "our strict interpretation of the Bible trumps science, no matter what the scientific evidence says."
Like I said: NOT science, but religious apologetics.
Very good points Gillette, and LOL at #6, which is absolutely ridiculous. Almost like their 'Get-out-of-jail-free' clause.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#107890 Jan 8, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote:
No, that's a pile of apologetics for anti-evolutionism, NOT "ID science" (the term of which is an oxymoron anyway).

That's why you will notice that the ACTUAL peer-reviewed stuff doesn't falsify evolution nor demonstrate (or even mention) ID, and the stuff that does (claim to) bypasses peer-review by being published by their own religious rags.

In the meantime though their "theory", as I already pointed out, is left unexplained.

Note how you can't either, instead preferring spam.

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#107897 Jan 8, 2014
pfft i left of at page 5037

The guy asking insolent questions got called an idiot...that gts me of the hook.

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/T9Q...

May the new year bring you all you wish for.

Shoot chinese philosophers if need be.

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#107898 Jan 8, 2014
JM_Brazil wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow Charles, are you STILL on insisting this point? You sound like a stubborn little kid.
If England actually believed they OWNED English, they would be charging other countries royalties for using it. Imagine having to pay a language tax.
I think the only solution is to reloop him.

I can;t even recall apropos of what this arguement was.
Everybody has some input so i guess it's a cry for attention.

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#107899 Jan 8, 2014
Charles Idemi wrote:
So by that premise, English belongs to England.
Your point being?

“Dinosaurs survived the flood!”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Jesus probably rode dinosaurs!

#107900 Jan 8, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> A little fuzzy on your last sentence. What dogma and agenda are you referring to? A lot of your Iders are not Christian. There is an atheist who defends intelligent design. A lot of evos are christian. They just leave God out of the mix when doing their work. Either way, from an outsiders POV there appears to be a cold war going on which is unusual since most of us put aside our differences to do our jobs and work together. Some even become friends in spite of our differences. The animosity between the two camps is disturbing. Hopefully it is mostly cosmetic.
http://www.examiner.com/article/atheist-defen...
The dogma would be the existence of an intelligent designer for ID and for creationists, it would be a young earth, the global flood, Adam and Eve and so forth.

I would say that he isn't an atheist if he defends ID. Most of the IDers are Christian though. They have even stated in weak moments that the designer is God. Yes a lot of people that accept the science and the theory of evolution are Christian, or Jewish.

How are you an outsider? You come on here. Your posts show your stand. I would not consider you an outsider. At least in the context of this forum.

Most of the animosity starts with the fundamentalists directed at the science side. The science sends it back to some extent, but they don't tend to start it.

“Dinosaurs survived the flood!”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Jesus probably rode dinosaurs!

#107901 Jan 8, 2014
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>yes, there are stupid atheists...for the most part they tend to be intelligent.
how can an atheist even consider a designer of the universe? seems he's not an atheist...
That was the first thing I thought. If you are an atheist, seems you wouldn't believe a designer exists.

“Dinosaurs survived the flood!”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Jesus probably rode dinosaurs!

#107902 Jan 8, 2014
MAAT wrote:
<quoted text>
I think the only solution is to reloop him.
I can;t even recall apropos of what this arguement was.
Everybody has some input so i guess it's a cry for attention.
You know, I don't remember how the argument started either. It goes all the way back before Charles registered is about all I can remember.

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#107903 Jan 8, 2014
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>You know, I don't remember how the argument started either. It goes all the way back before Charles registered is about all I can remember.
I was like god, being here since the creation of this line, or nye there.(those pico-seconds are drat) and did not see it happen. I did not evoke it nor ordain it.
So why, what fore this insolence.
Testing my patience with free will.
Is it jewish? No! That is good, well let it grab a square implement with shoddy doves on it and be burned.
That will show him to behove acording to his Stolen Scriptures!

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#107904 Jan 8, 2014
woodtick57 wrote:

<quoted text>Because it was a backwater, minor little nowhere.
when Pompey finally strode through the gates of jerusalem had long since passed its economic and cultural zenith. Cicero even called it the "hole in the corner" of the Roman empire. the only reason they were even allowed to keep their temple was it was a good way to rule the jews via the high priests they picked.
even when the babylonians conquered the area, Cyrus let the jews return to jerusalem because he considered them an irrelevant backwater of little interest or concern to an empire that stretched across Asia... the jews felt so grateful for this, the prophet Isaiah anointed Cyrus as messiah.
history is fun!
De Angelo of Memphis.((like what...they hold the carpet up when you pass!)
Maybe they were just humble enough to not wanna go a conquer everything that they laid their eyes on like we see in the Caucasians and the Mongolians...tearing the land as they thirsted only for MORE power and MORE territory. Yea, maybe they weren't that much of a threat because they were humble enough to appreciate what they had, which the "big guys" to for weakness!

Two birds...

Well yes Woodtick after having been nuovemeted and enslaved they of the upperclass that make history were indeed pretty glad to be restored. Nowadays one should not expect this.
Yesterday i came across a book that showed the jews had been a bane to various conquerors for centuries.
In Galilee the huge Roman empire lost. The rapta aquila!
Do you really think there would have been so much negative publicity (the gospel at all that) if they had been such an irrelevant backwater.
they lived everywhere and counted at that time 20% of the popuation of the empire. And like the germans and german/anglo-saxon Boudica and the Scott they fought as the Celts also once did.
The Celts were also treated horrifficly.
The Romans even has several walls build. one in Africa, Hadrianus wall and the one spanning al Europe. As long as they could regulate sheep not passing they considerd themselves safe. Eco-terrors those sheep.

De Angelo nothing stopped them but the trouble all invaders have as in being cut of from supply lines.
Even the mere suggestion of any noble gesture i consider misplaced.
Why do you think they razed a town to the ground that was not even in a province of theirs!

Ceasar allready started with misinformation.
And the trouble with him was that he had to be revered like a god.

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#107905 Jan 8, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote

Something along the lines of he discussion between intelligent design and all well-thinking people doing no damages. or expressing such a sentiment.

(I've been scrolling back forever but can't find the Original)

Well, wondering how Michael Behe was doing I looked him up on wiki. Seems i confused him with a dutch Michael also fervent adept, but just to get a job in America. Europe still perceives America as an unfree country, where one has to be christian and in favout of the death-penalty in order to have a job at a government institution.
But soit.

It dawned on me that every trial reduces the chances of kids ever being allowed to have a good education.

Compare that to Behe:
Behe grew up in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, where he attended grade school at St. Margaret Mary's Parochial School and later graduated from Bishop McDevitt High School.[8][9] He graduated from Drexel University in 1974 with a Bachelor of Science in chemistry. He received his PhD in biochemistry at the University of Pennsylvania in 1978 for his dissertation research on sickle-cell disease. From 1978 to 1982, he did postdoctoral work on DNA structure at the National Institutes of Health. From 1982 to 1985, he was assistant professor of chemistry at Queens College in New York City, where he met his wife, Celeste. In 1985, he moved to Lehigh University and is currently a Professor of Biochemistry. Due to Behe's views on evolution, Lehigh University exhibits the following disclaimer on its website:

“ While we respect Prof. Behe's right to express his views, they are his alone and are in no way endorsed by the department. It is our collective position that intelligent design has no basis in science, has not been tested experimentally and should not be regarded as scientific.[10]

Nevertheless the man still has a job and had a more then full share of the tax dollars in education.

Compare that to:
In Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District, the first direct challenge brought in United States federal courts to an attempt to mandate the teaching of intelligent design on First Amendment grounds, Behe was called as a primary witness for the defense and asked to support the idea that intelligent design was legitimate science. Some of the most crucial exchanges in the trial occurred during Behe's cross-examination, where his testimony would prove devastating to the defense. Behe was forced to concede that "there are no peer reviewed articles by anyone advocating for intelligent design supported by pertinent experiments or calculations which provide detailed rigorous accounts of how intelligent design of any biological system occurred"[43] and that his definition of 'theory' as applied to intelligent design was so loose that astrology would also qualify.[44

My point is not so much the intellectual arguements, but that the 8 kids that sued would ofcource not have changed their mind, nor their parents. Usually grassroot groups have more effect. So they will show themselves aggrieved and the snowball rolls. Science will not be educated to more and more Americans.
The nett effect is ever more trials since in America they can't do it in one go. Freedom of speech getting in the way. And thus a population dumbing down. Starting with mabe 8 at a time but nevertheless.

The parents are not bothered nor is Behe.

“Up with which, I will not put”

Since: Jul 08

Sao Paulo

#107908 Jan 14, 2014
Wow - I think the E vs. C topic is broken.

*standing on desk, hands cupped around mouth* HELLOOOOOOO...

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#107909 Jan 14, 2014
JM_Brazil wrote:
Wow - I think the E vs. C topic is broken.
*standing on desk, hands cupped around mouth* HELLOOOOOOO...
Dr. Livingstone, I presume?
cancer suxs

Faribault, MN

#107910 Jan 14, 2014
Facts(evolution) or stone age myth(creation).

Easy choice for sane people.

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#107911 Jan 14, 2014
JM_Brazil wrote:
Wow - I think the E vs. C topic is broken.
*standing on desk, hands cupped around mouth* HELLOOOOOOO...
HELLOOOOOOO... HELLOOooooo... hellooooooo... right back at ya
Patriot

Mount Juliet, TN

#107912 Jan 14, 2014
cancer suxs wrote:
Facts(evolution) or stone age myth(creation).
Easy choice for sane people.
the"facts" as you present ignore 3 apparent things. The science tries to circumvent 1, presence of matter, 2, force, 3, force acting on matter in the vaccum of space in the beginning. Also go to the book of Job Chapter 26 verses 7-10. Job lived around 1500 B.C. and roughly 3000 years before Columbus. IN the text it states how the earth is suspended, it is round and rotates thus having day and night. How could have Job known that unless he was given that information by inspiration from God? It would take much more faith to believe such cockamamy theroies such as what Hawken puts out than believe the Bible. Hawken said before there was time God could not have existed, his baseball cap is a little too tight on his noggin if he things such as that.
cancer suxs

Faribault, MN

#107913 Jan 14, 2014
Patriot wrote:
<quoted text> the"facts" as you present ignore 3 apparent things. The science tries to circumvent 1, presence of matter, 2, force, 3, force acting on matter in the vaccum of space in the beginning. Also go to the book of Job Chapter 26 verses 7-10. Job lived around 1500 B.C. and roughly 3000 years before Columbus. IN the text it states how the earth is suspended, it is round and rotates thus having day and night. How could have Job known that unless he was given that information by inspiration from God? It would take much more faith to believe such cockamamy theroies such as what Hawken puts out than believe the Bible. Hawken said before there was time God could not have existed, his baseball cap is a little too tight on his noggin if he things such as that.
You cant use the buybull. Books of myth hold no sway in SANE chat. Anyway creation is myth and has not one thing to back it up outside the buybull.

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