Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story

“I'm Your Huckleberry ”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

That's Just My Game

#107756 Dec 25, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Describe the lies you claim evolutionists have had to tell in trying to persuade you to accept their views.
Looks to me like this attempt to claim parity on both sides is your own last ditch effort to reject the science because you don't like the consequences, as you see them, of accepting evolution.
That is no argument, its a cop out.
Both sides have lied. It is that simple. If you deny that then you are a liar.

“I'm Your Huckleberry ”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

That's Just My Game

#107757 Dec 25, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Describe the lies you claim evolutionists have had to tell in trying to persuade you to accept their views.
Looks to me like this attempt to claim parity on both sides is your own last ditch effort to reject the science because you don't like the consequences, as you see them, of accepting evolution.
That is no argument, its a cop out.
Let me add to this:

Both sides have lied. It is that simple. If you deny that then you are a liar. But that does not make all that either side says lies.

“I have upset the hand of god”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Threats pending

#107758 Dec 25, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Both sides have lied. It is that simple. If you deny that then you are a liar.
I haven't lied about anything.

“I have upset the hand of god”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Threats pending

#107759 Dec 25, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Let me add to this:
Both sides have lied. It is that simple. If you deny that then you are a liar. But that does not make all that either side says lies.
Seriously, where are the statements made regarding evolution, that you claim a lies. That is what was requested.
drinK the hivE

Clifton, NJ

#107760 Dec 25, 2013
Just Another Circle Full Of Jerk'...

JBH

Richmond, Canada

#107761 Dec 26, 2013
When cold war is over, that means there is no more tension between communism and democracy.
It also means it is not the time anymore to define or think which is more beautiful or evil, related to democracy or communism because the difference has been melted away in the meaning.
Unless there are still radicals who go along and believe what Bush said regarding WMD and Iraq, this is a new world moving on to the new future when cold war is over.
If one does not believe what Bush said as he was a liar, why would one believe what he said about North Korea and Iran and Cuba?
Seriously speaking, no one expects to see that Iran or North Korea could use nukes to hit the west in one's lifetime, other than like British Tony Blair saying Saddam would assemble WMD in silos and flew them to UK, in previous Iraq gambit.
Just which is more elegant, as a relative value judgment, democracy or communism when west has no more such freedom anymore but many innocents in jails? Since people perhaps don't expect to live in NK, Iran, Cuba, but why still propel against them like in the old days of cold war?
In the west, areas are doing badly are that freedom liberty, free expressions and so on matters are eroding while police are volatile. There are a lot of victims and innocents being abused by police and no justice comes about within the system. There are more people in jails and innocents convicted than those put in prisons, in NK, Iran and Cuba--this is in no way to say communism is all that good either, but just to make facts straight to look at.
Perhaps you might not have experienced that, but a lot of people do have such sufferings of suffering from injustice and being abused. You say you don't care because it is not you.
But what sort of society is that if people are randomly abused, you are there to pump up against communism about NK ,Iran? That will cause more tensions and conflicts with these countries.
To proceed the furthering of the dictated situations by using the wrongdoer, the evil liar Bush's gimmicks about NK, Iran , could lead to wars and might end up worsening by wasting soldiers' lives and having very bad ends.
US has charged at least 900 people under Patriot Act.
More likely, PRISM might spy AND HACK ON YOU .
YOUR CELLPHONE CONVERSATIONS , emails ARE MOST LIKELY tapped by NSA. You are facing all these problematic troubles with lots of lairs to you in the west.
At least 60 % of cellphone conversations in North America, western Europe have been collected in the database by NSA..
North Korea, Iran and Cuba have not and would not hack on you to downgrade your free speech on the Internet and elsewhere, and mess your freedom rights privacy and come to the west to steal and rob.
Only ill people will say they will have nukes (as NK already has) to hit the west.
BY the inclination based on true facts known from the past, if US would not make war and use anymore those atomic bombs alike nuke bombs, the world is fine to look forward to see that instead.
SO HEAVY WEAPONS IN US HANDS ARE PROVEN VERY DANGEROUS.
The many problems that people are facing are such terrible situations at the present time that they should be concerned in, but not NK, Iran and Cuba.
The new world needs to be co-existent PEACEFULLY with NO MORE CHAOS BY USING RADICALISM TO counter COMMUNISM when cold war is over, AS their communism won't be you.
But so far, is there anything new, other than the habitual coming up with neo-McCathyism and neo-Nazism and many are still buried in the ongoing belief of their mentor Bush's saying , on NK, Iran and Cuba?
JBH

Richmond, Canada

#107762 Dec 26, 2013
U.S. condemns Christmas attacks that kill 37 Christians in Iraq

By Paul Richter
December 25, 2013, 9:51 a.m.

WASHINGTON -- The State Department condemned twin Christmas Day attacks on Christians in Iraq that killed at least 37 people.

http://www.latimes.com/world/worldnow/la-fg-w ...
==========

RELATED TO THE ABOVE STORY, JUST ASK WHO STARTED ALL THESE?
If it wasn't US, who else would it be?
Never since the history of Iraq, there is something like that with the unlimited continuous violences of more than 11 straight years upon Bush committing the invasion.
In other words, when Bush broke down the Iraqi society from US occupation, there spread and multiplied numerous fragments which resulted all the unrest and violences.
If there was no invasion and Saddam would eventually quit or retired by himself or be taken over or replaced by anyone, there would not be such unrest for such long.
But US did it to this crisis situation in Iraq.
This Iraq saga created by Bush, could be the stunning record, that such violences of every week or every day occurrences, are at least over 6,000 to 10,000 in number by now (as reports may not report all, over last 11 years), and that seems to be never ending.
This is a serious problem which signals the serious wrongs and failure done by Bush.

What is the point of US condemning without pointing fingers to itself which started all?

The complicated situation is that violences go on and on for 11 years, which would give the appraisal that Bush acted very wrongly, and conducted engaging in the torture, as unbearable and insane.

Even violences end today and there will be no more such occurrences, however, with the straight, continuous unrest with thousands of cases of violences for this long time of 11 years, the assessment of US case in Iraq is simply terrible--it was the global matter and not merely US matter, while it took in its hands by forced dictation.

SOME MIGHT SAY IRAQ IS WORSE THAN Vietnam, BECAUSE Vietnam ended all the warfare and violences within a short time of few months when US retreated.

As this Iraq crisis is going on to this time, it really stands out as the most ugly, crazy and insane matters according to the view of reasoning and rationalization by human civilization in these modern times.

How did it happen since too many people were against it during UN inspection, and before Bush started the invasion, when in fact millions of people were demonstrating against it all over the planet?

Yet, global masses' viewpoints are still not well-received and served by UN--from UN's engaging in many world matters when cold war is over, including ignoring the situations of Iraq.
Because there has been over too long unrest already in Iraq, this depicts the focal judgment of why it is so wrong to start and do evil things, by creating immense problematic troubles with no solutions.

The examination is that for 11 years of unrest in Iraq, some could even think it may have to go for the 12 or 20 years to see if not any more violences in order to fulfill Bush's saying that is the history judgment.

How could that be --11 straight years of unrest are really overboard and too much already, which would give the apparent end of the whole story of Iraq, while that says the Iraq case is rated as serious,silly failure by now, without having to look for some more years or future time to determine if there is any other new story?

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#107763 Dec 26, 2013
JBH wrote:
U.S. condemns Christmas attacks that kill 37 Christians in Iraq
Damn, son...

Nice rant, but wrong forum.

Note that this is an "EVOLUTION" forum.

Not a political one.
JBH

Richmond, Canada

#107764 Dec 26, 2013
I am merely a commentator giving straightforward comments, just like many others around the world.

Perhaps, the demonstrations against Iraq war before it happened were the largest of all times (up to 10 or more millions had demonstrated all over the world on earth since any time in world history, even bigger than the demonstrations against the Vietnam war--yet much demonstrations were only after Vietnam had stated), this showed the lacking concern of world voices in the Iraq case seems non-productive and harmful.

This world is always diverse with lots of talents and opinions all over the planet that tells and judges world affairs.

People cannot keep denying any others' voices and judgment on this planet in the awareness and consciousness of what is going on.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#107765 Dec 26, 2013
JBH wrote:
I am merely a commentator giving straightforward comments, just like many others around the world.

Perhaps, the demonstrations against Iraq war before it happened were the largest of all times (up to 10 or more millions had demonstrated all over the world on earth since any time in world history, even bigger than the demonstrations against the Vietnam war--yet much demonstrations were only after Vietnam had stated), this showed the lacking concern of world voices in the Iraq case seems non-productive and harmful.

This world is always diverse with lots of talents and opinions all over the planet that tells and judges world affairs.

People cannot keep denying any others' voices and judgment on this planet in the awareness and consciousness of what is going on.
Please be a "commentator" on an appropriate thread. This thread being INAPPROPRIATE.

Thank you.

“I have upset the hand of god”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Threats pending

#107766 Dec 26, 2013
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Please be a "commentator" on an appropriate thread. This thread being INAPPROPRIATE.
Thank you.
Agreed.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#107767 Dec 26, 2013
Found this, comments solicited, please:

Nahmanides[Nah-man-nid-ez]( &#1512;&#1489;&#14 97; &#1502;&#1513;&#14 92; &#1489;&#1503; &#1504;&#1495;&#15 02;&#1503;), also known as Rabbi Moses ben Na&#7717;man Girondi, Bonastruc ça (de) Porta and by his acronym Ramban (1194 – 1270), was a leading medieval Jewish scholar, Spanish Sephardic rabbi, philosopher, physician, kabbalist, and biblical commentator. He was raised, studied, and lived for most of his life in Girona, Catalonia.

His commentary on the creation of the world describes the universe expanding, and matter forming:

"...At the briefest instant following creation all the matter of the universe was concentrated in a very small place, no larger than a grain of mustard. The matter at this time was very thin, so intangible, that it did not have real substance. It did have, however, a potential to gain substance and form and to become tangible matter. From the initial concentration of this intangible substance in its minute location, the substance expanded, expanding the universe as it did so. As the expansion progressed, a change in the substance occurred. This initially thin noncorporeal substance took on the tangible aspects of matter as we know it. From this initial act of creation, from this etherieally thin pseudosubstance, everything that has existed, or will ever exist, was, is, and will be formed."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nahmanides

“I'm Your Huckleberry ”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

That's Just My Game

#107768 Dec 26, 2013
Kong_ wrote:
Found this, comments solicited, please:
Nahmanides[Nah-man-nid-ez]( &#1512;&#1489;&#14 97; &#1502;&#1513;&#14 92; &#1489;&#1503; &#1504;&#1495;&#15 02;&#1503;), also known as Rabbi Moses ben Na&#7717;man Girondi, Bonastruc ça (de) Porta and by his acronym Ramban (1194 – 1270), was a leading medieval Jewish scholar, Spanish Sephardic rabbi, philosopher, physician, kabbalist, and biblical commentator. He was raised, studied, and lived for most of his life in Girona, Catalonia.
His commentary on the creation of the world describes the universe expanding, and matter forming:
"...At the briefest instant following creation all the matter of the universe was concentrated in a very small place, no larger than a grain of mustard. The matter at this time was very thin, so intangible, that it did not have real substance. It did have, however, a potential to gain substance and form and to become tangible matter. From the initial concentration of this intangible substance in its minute location, the substance expanded, expanding the universe as it did so. As the expansion progressed, a change in the substance occurred. This initially thin noncorporeal substance took on the tangible aspects of matter as we know it. From this initial act of creation, from this etherieally thin pseudosubstance, everything that has existed, or will ever exist, was, is, and will be formed."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nahmanides
Read a little deeper and you will find:

Nahmanides went on to show that the Biblical prophets regarded the future messiah as a human, a person of flesh and blood, and not as a divinity, in the way that Christians view Jesus. He noted that their promises of a reign of universal peace and justice had not yet been fulfilled. On the contrary, since the appearance of Jesus, the world had been filled with violence and injustice, and among all denominations the Christians were the most warlike.

"[... it seems most strange that...] the Creator of Heaven and Earth resorted to the womb of a certain Jewish lady, grew there for nine months and was born as an infant, and afterwards grew up and was betrayed into the hands of his enemies who sentenced him to death and executed him, and that afterwards... he came to life and returned to his original place. The mind of a Jew, or any other person, simply cannot tolerate these assertions. You have listened all your life to the priests who have filled your brain and the marrow of your bones with this doctrine, and it has settled into you because of that accustomed habit.[I would argue that if you were hearing these ideas for the first time, now, as a grown adult], you would never accept them."

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#107769 Dec 26, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Read a little deeper and you will find:
Nahmanides went on to show that the Biblical prophets regarded the future messiah as a human, a person of flesh and blood, and not as a divinity, in the way that Christians view Jesus. He noted that their promises of a reign of universal peace and justice had not yet been fulfilled. On the contrary, since the appearance of Jesus, the world had been filled with violence and injustice, and among all denominations the Christians were the most warlike.
"[... it seems most strange that...] the Creator of Heaven and Earth resorted to the womb of a certain Jewish lady, grew there for nine months and was born as an infant, and afterwards grew up and was betrayed into the hands of his enemies who sentenced him to death and executed him, and that afterwards... he came to life and returned to his original place. The mind of a Jew, or any other person, simply cannot tolerate these assertions. You have listened all your life to the priests who have filled your brain and the marrow of your bones with this doctrine, and it has settled into you because of that accustomed habit.[I would argue that if you were hearing these ideas for the first time, now, as a grown adult], you would never accept them."
Is it surprising to you that a Jewish Rabbi would have this perspective about Jesus?

“I'm Your Huckleberry ”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

That's Just My Game

#107770 Dec 26, 2013
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Is it surprising to you that a Jewish Rabbi would have this perspective about Jesus?
What is surprising is if you read the whole article. He seems to believes parts here and there.

He says things like this:

Besides the animal soul, which is derived from the "Supreme powers" and is common to all creatures, man possesses a special soul. This special soul, which is a direct emanation from God, existed before the creation of the world. Through the medium of man it enters the material life; and at the dissolution of its medium it either returns to its original source or enters the body of another man. This belief is, according to Nahmanides, the basis of the levirate marriage, the child of which inherits not only the name of the brother of his fleshly father, but also his soul, and thus continues its existence on the earth. The resurrection spoken of by the prophets, which will take place after the coming of the Messiah, is referred by Nahmanides to the body. The physical body may, through the influence of the soul, transform itself into so pure an essence that it will become eternal.

So he definitely believes in God the Creator but thinks Jesus is a fluke. He seems to kind of be all over the grid on what he says.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#107771 Dec 26, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
What is surprising is if you read the whole article. He seems to believes parts here and there.
He says things like this:
Besides the animal soul, which is derived from the "Supreme powers" and is common to all creatures, man possesses a special soul. This special soul, which is a direct emanation from God, existed before the creation of the world. Through the medium of man it enters the material life; and at the dissolution of its medium it either returns to its original source or enters the body of another man. This belief is, according to Nahmanides, the basis of the levirate marriage, the child of which inherits not only the name of the brother of his fleshly father, but also his soul, and thus continues its existence on the earth. The resurrection spoken of by the prophets, which will take place after the coming of the Messiah, is referred by Nahmanides to the body. The physical body may, through the influence of the soul, transform itself into so pure an essence that it will become eternal.
So he definitely believes in God the Creator but thinks Jesus is a fluke. He seems to kind of be all over the grid on what he says.
I respectfully disagree.

You're appear to be under the assumption that the Christian dogma that you observe today, is the same set of beliefs that has been practiced since antiquity, by both Christians AND Jews.
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>So he definitely believes in God the Creator but thinks Jesus is a fluke. He seems to kind of be all over the grid on what he says.
Ummm......He was a JEWISH RABBI.

I believe if you were to inquire ANY Jewish Rabbi, you would find their beliefs quite consistent with Nahmanides.

But my original comment about Nahmanides was his concept of the instant of Creation.
It sounds familiar, no?

“I'm Your Huckleberry ”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

That's Just My Game

#107772 Dec 26, 2013
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
I respectfully disagree.
You're appear to be under the assumption that the Christian dogma that you observe today, is the same set of beliefs that has been practiced since antiquity, by both Christians AND Jews.
<quoted text>
Ummm......He was a JEWISH RABBI.
I believe if you were to inquire ANY Jewish Rabbi, you would find their beliefs quite consistent with Nahmanides.
But my original comment about Nahmanides was his concept of the instant of Creation.
It sounds familiar, no?
Sure does sound familiar and he believes God did it and said it way before science had an inkling thought of the BBT <<< I think but could be wrong.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#107773 Dec 26, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure does sound familiar and he believes God did it and said it way before science had an inkling thought of the BBT <<< I think but could be wrong.
I don't think anyone here, myself included, would be disappointed if the "root cause" of the BBT would turn out to be a Supreme Being.

Nor the root cause of abiogenesis, or evolution, for that matter.

As of yet, there is no evidence for this Supreme Being, however. It's simple: If there is a God, He used the forces of nature (including those associated with abiogenesis and evolution) to do His bidding.

But the Genesis story is bunk.

As I said previously, evidence for this Deity's existence is not available to factor in His participation.


“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#107774 Dec 26, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Read a little deeper and you will find:
Nahmanides went on to show that the Biblical prophets regarded the future messiah as a human, a person of flesh and blood, and not as a divinity, in the way that Christians view Jesus. He noted that their promises of a reign of universal peace and justice had not yet been fulfilled. On the contrary, since the appearance of Jesus, the world had been filled with violence and injustice, and among all denominations the Christians were the most warlike.
"[... it seems most strange that...] the Creator of Heaven and Earth resorted to the womb of a certain Jewish lady, grew there for nine months and was born as an infant, and afterwards grew up and was betrayed into the hands of his enemies who sentenced him to death and executed him, and that afterwards... he came to life and returned to his original place. The mind of a Jew, or any other person, simply cannot tolerate these assertions. You have listened all your life to the priests who have filled your brain and the marrow of your bones with this doctrine, and it has settled into you because of that accustomed habit.[I would argue that if you were hearing these ideas for the first time, now, as a grown adult], you would never accept them."

Nice quote.

But I forget what point you might have been trying to make. It seems that he has later day Christiandom pegged to a T. Or would that be nailed to a cross?

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#107775 Dec 26, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure does sound familiar and he believes God did it and said it way before science had an inkling thought of the BBT <<< I think but could be wrong.

I have no problem with BBT + God, but God does not refute BBT.

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