Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#107372 Dec 5, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>no there was absolutely not one shred of evidence that Martin was doing anything suspicious.
A bit over zealous neighborhood watchman, but what he did was also legal. Doesn't mean I agree with him support it or condone being a human walking penal dysfunction, like zimmerweenie but he wasn't breaking the law either.

Level 3

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#107373 Dec 5, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually it wasn't. Zimmerman first followed Martin in his car and called a nonemergency police number to report what he felt was suspicious activity. While on the phone Martin came up to the car and Zimmerman closed his window to avoid a direct confrontation. He then followed Martin while still talking to the operator who said "Okay, we don't need you to do that" at which point Zimmerman said "Yeah" and you can hear in the recording that his breathing changed indicating that he had stopped trying to follow Martin.
At this point Martin had gotten away. No one was following him. He had more than enough time to get home. So what did he do instead? The evidence supported Zimmerman's claim that he was attacked. You can't claim self defense for Martin when it looks like he instigated the attack.
Perhaps he was concerned about leading the guy who was stalking him back to his house. Just imagine if it was a nice white guy who got shot by zimmerman.

Headline: "Hispanic wannabe cop hunts and kills child."

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#107374 Dec 5, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> A bit over zealous neighborhood watchman, but what he did was also legal. Doesn't mean I agree with him support it or condone being a human walking penal dysfunction, like zimmerweenie but he wasn't breaking the law either.
how do you know that? shooting someone who is not threatening your life is illegal...

there is no proof to convict him, luckily for him, but all the evidence suggests he started teh fight and then when he started to lose, ran to his little gun to save him...

Level 3

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#107375 Dec 5, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>I've been following that one with some interest.
One reason we used to teach "NEVER fire warning shots".
(Subtext: when the police get there, make sure the only story they're gonna hear is yours.)
Had she put two in his head, she'd possibly have never seen the inside of a jail.
Almost certainly not, had she been white.
Hey now, racism is gone and everything is fine.

Level 3

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#107376 Dec 5, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
You forgot why Zimmerman was following Martin in the first place.
Plus it is highly doubtful that a little girl would double back and attack his stalker.
Before making foolish hypotheticals make sure that they fit the topic.
Because he was black and zimmerman was a wannabe hero. Right?

Are you suggesting that profiling is ok? Because that's the only reason he had to follow him - he did not have a specific tip (ie black male in hood suspected of robbery), he only knew that there had been break ins in the area, and he followed martin because he was black.

Maybe it is doubtful that a girl would double back, which is why I also mentioned a young white guy. Is it not possible that a 18 year old white guy might double back to confront a stalker? Do you deny that the case would have been framed very differently if it had been a young white guy that was killed?

Also, we don't know if martin actually attacked zimmerman, however, we do know that zimmerman's injuries do not match his description of the event. We also know that martin's hands were not injured - your hands get very messed up if you dish out a beating like the one described by zimmerman.

Anyways, I do think that the jury was put in an impossible position, by virtue of the fact that zimmerman eliminated the only other witness, and because of the inadequacy of the laws. You shouldn't be able to provoke a fight and then kill someone if you start losing that fight. I think it's pretty clear that zimmerman was in the wrong, but I don't know if I would have been able to vote guilty. Based on the situation itself and based on zimmerman's recent behavior, I think it's quite obvious what kind of person he is. His MO is to provoke and then claim self defense or fear.

Level 3

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#107377 Dec 5, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>no there was absolutely not one shred of evidence that Martin was doing anything suspicious.
WWB - walking while black. The lesser known cousin of DWB.

Level 3

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#107378 Dec 5, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>do the science, if martin was really smashing his head against teh concrete Zimmerman wouldn't be here. what is the force needed to crush the human skull, you don't think martin could have generated that force? i know i could and i go a buck sixty-five and 5'-10"....
how is walking in the rain suspicious?
Ah, WITRWB. Very suspicious.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#107379 Dec 5, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>do the science, if martin was really smashing his head against teh concrete Zimmerman wouldn't be here. what is the force needed to crush the human skull, you don't think martin could have generated that force? i know i could and i go a buck sixty-five and 5'-10"....
how is walking in the rain suspicious?
It all depends upon how hard he was resisting. If he was totally limp you might have a point. If he was resisting, and the neck muscles are very strong, he would very well could have had the minor injuries that he had. I would not let someone try to smash my head without resisting.

And walking in the rain can be suspicious if it is a cold miserable night, which it was supposed to be there that night. Cold we weather is much more uncomfortable to me than even much colder dry air. I have spent winters in both.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#107380 Dec 5, 2013
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Perhaps he was concerned about leading the guy who was stalking him back to his house. Just imagine if it was a nice white guy who got shot by zimmerman.
Headline: "Hispanic wannabe cop hunts and kills child."
There was a case with almost reversed circumstances. A black man interrupted a white youth, along with his friends, in the middle of breaking into a car in a parking lot. He yelled at them, according to the black man one of the white kids, who had a fairly clean record at that time, attacked him. He shot him dead. He got off. Now I probably need to find it again. He was found innocent and the white family felt that a grave injustice had happened.

And you are speculating wildly. Plus it does not matter, once he ran away Martin could no longer claim self defense.

Neither party was doing anything illegal until Martin attacked Zimmerman.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#107381 Dec 5, 2013
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Ah, WITRWB. Very suspicious.
Please Timmy, try not to be an idiot.

The facts are that the area had been undergoing a spate of burglaries. The descriptions of the perpetrators was rather weak, but Martin fit the description, more in the age, and dress bracket than anything else.

At any rate, it does not really matter why Zimmerman thought that Martin was suspicious. Once Martin ran off he could no longer claim self defense, yet the evidence supports that he attacked Zimmerman first.

To put Zimmerman away the prosecution needed to show that Zimmerman somehow instigated the attack. Simply following a person at night is not a valid reason to attack him.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#107382 Dec 5, 2013
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Hey now, racism is gone and everything is fine.
well its about time...

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#107383 Dec 5, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
It all depends upon how hard he was resisting. If he was totally limp you might have a point. If he was resisting, and the neck muscles are very strong, he would very well could have had the minor injuries that he had. I would not let someone try to smash my head without resisting.
And walking in the rain can be suspicious if it is a cold miserable night, which it was supposed to be there that night. Cold we weather is much more uncomfortable to me than even much colder dry air. I have spent winters in both.
yeah, it doesn't work even when you say it to yourself, does it?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#107384 Dec 5, 2013
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Because he was black and zimmerman was a wannabe hero. Right?
Are you suggesting that profiling is ok? Because that's the only reason he had to follow him - he did not have a specific tip (ie black male in hood suspected of robbery), he only knew that there had been break ins in the area, and he followed martin because he was black.
Maybe it is doubtful that a girl would double back, which is why I also mentioned a young white guy. Is it not possible that a 18 year old white guy might double back to confront a stalker? Do you deny that the case would have been framed very differently if it had been a young white guy that was killed?
Also, we don't know if martin actually attacked zimmerman, however, we do know that zimmerman's injuries do not match his description of the event. We also know that martin's hands were not injured - your hands get very messed up if you dish out a beating like the one described by zimmerman.
Anyways, I do think that the jury was put in an impossible position, by virtue of the fact that zimmerman eliminated the only other witness, and because of the inadequacy of the laws. You shouldn't be able to provoke a fight and then kill someone if you start losing that fight. I think it's pretty clear that zimmerman was in the wrong, but I don't know if I would have been able to vote guilty. Based on the situation itself and based on zimmerman's recent behavior, I think it's quite obvious what kind of person he is. His MO is to provoke and then claim self defense or fear.
You are wrong. Zimmerman's injuries supported his claims.

In what way didn't they? Did he attack Martin's fists, the only part of him injured by the fight, with his face. Was Zimmerman guilty because he did not relax his neck and allow Martin to beat him into unconsciousness and perhaps death?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#107385 Dec 5, 2013
And of course Zimmerman had no indication of racism in the past. He was involved in tutoring students of low income families and had ran a petition against some police who were involved in some violence towards a black subject. Of course he may have been planning ahead perhaps Timmy thinks.

Even if he was racist and had been profiling Martin what he did was not illegal. Profiling as he is accused of doing is not illegal. Nor is it illegal profiling if a black man profiles a white man in his neighborhood. As long as he does not act physically on his beliefs. It is not illegal to be dumb and racist. It is no excuse for someone to attack you.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#107386 Dec 5, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
There was a case with almost reversed circumstances. A black man interrupted a white youth, along with his friends, in the middle of breaking into a car in a parking lot. He yelled at them, according to the black man one of the white kids, who had a fairly clean record at that time, attacked him. He shot him dead. He got off. Now I probably need to find it again. He was found innocent and the white family felt that a grave injustice had happened.
And you are speculating wildly. Plus it does not matter, once he ran away Martin could no longer claim self defense.
Neither party was doing anything illegal until Martin attacked Zimmerman.
A old retired airforce veteran with alzheimers got lost walking his dogs and went to someones house and started banging on the door.
He scared the owner who got his gun and shot him dead.
He is not being charged either due to castle laws.
It looks like in today's world you better watch what the hell you are doing, people can shoot you with little worry.
I don't agree with this case either, the man should have just waited for the police, but instead just shot the old fellow , who probably was just going to ask where he was. Or thought he was home and wasn't.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-25148...

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#107387 Dec 5, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>yeah, it doesn't work even when you say it to yourself, does it?
What? Are you kidding? Do you seriously think that Zimmerman would relax? Sorry, his injuries match is description.

There is no doubt about it. People resist when they are attacked. See what you do when someone tries to slam your head into the ground. It is easy to slow the motion down.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#107388 Dec 5, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
A old retired airforce veteran with alzheimers got lost walking his dogs and went to someones house and started banging on the door.
He scared the owner who got his gun and shot him dead.
He is not being charged either due to castle laws.
It looks like in today's world you better watch what the hell you are doing, people can shoot you with little worry.
I don't agree with this case either, the man should have just waited for the police, but instead just shot the old fellow , who probably was just going to ask where he was. Or thought he was home and wasn't.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-25148...
Zimmerman never used the castle doctrine. His claim was always self defense. They were thinking of using that defense but found that they did not need to.

I agree that the Castle Law is not a good one.

People just don't seem to like that fact that the evidence supported Zimmerman even if he is a dislikable person.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#107389 Dec 5, 2013
Here is the similar case I was talking about. And this man was much more aggressive than Zimmerman:

http://rochester.ynn.com/content/news/490926/...

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#107390 Dec 5, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
What? Are you kidding? Do you seriously think that Zimmerman would relax? Sorry, his injuries match is description.
There is no doubt about it. People resist when they are attacked. See what you do when someone tries to slam your head into the ground. It is easy to slow the motion down.
try it in the position he said they were in...see if you could stop someone from slamming your head into the concrete hard enough to crack your skull...you would not be able to...

like i said,. it doesn't even sound right when you say it to yourself...but nice try.

Level 2

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#107391 Dec 5, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's see a quote from a textbook on abiogenesis, which is what you are obviously talking about. In any decent textbook it would mention the hypothetical nature of abiogenesis.
The rest of evolution has been tested hundreds to thousands of times and found to be correct.
Poor boahrt, he still does not realize that abiogenesis is not evolution. He probably never will.
Poor sucking bone, it IS BEING TAUGHT IN SCHOOLS.YOU SAID ANYTHING TAUGHT HAS BEEN TESTED. That's a lie.

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