Evolution vs. Creation

Full story: Best of New Orleans

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

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“Get Extreme or Go Home. ”

Since: Nov 13

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#106656
Nov 23, 2013
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
No, simply wrong. You are trying to make too high of a standard. If you want to say that then you could deny that any fossil is transitional since there is no way to tell if any individual fossil had any progeny.
The fact that they are the same species is more than close enough. In some cases species that may or may not have been on the direct line are still considered "transitional" as long as they are "close enough" to being between two other recognizable species.
For example we are not sure that tiktaalik was on any direct line. It is close enough to pure fish and pure land animals to be considered a transitional.
I say again.

Lets just make it easy. Lets see where Java man fits in.

Give me the Scientific classification of Java man. Other words fill in the blanks. Show links for your answers.

Kingdom:
Phylum:
Class:
Order:
Family:
Tribe:
Genus:
Species

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#106657
Nov 23, 2013
 
Extreme Ways wrote:
<quoted text>
So you cannot answer then, other words fill in the blanks?
Guess not. Too bad for me isn't it.

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#106658
Nov 23, 2013
 
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>I'm not interested in furthering your obsession when the question has been answered. If you want to play, play with yourself.
It is not shame because you can't answer. It is shame to be stupid and act like you already know.

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#106659
Nov 23, 2013
 
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>I'm not interested in furthering your obsession when the question has been answered. If you want to play, play with yourself.
You are saying Java man is a transitional so you should be able to give a scientific classification of Java man so we can see where he fits in.

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#106660
Nov 23, 2013
 
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>Guess not. Too bad for me isn't it.
I cannot answer it because Java man has no scientific classification. With no scientific classification science is not sure where he fits in. And if science does not know where he fits in then he cannot be considered a transitional because science has no ideal of what he is a transitional between. That is 8th grade logic.

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#106661
Nov 23, 2013
 
Extreme Ways wrote:
<quoted text>
You are saying Java man is a transitional so you should be able to give a scientific classification of Java man so we can see where he fits in.
You are the one saying he isn't transitional, so you should be able to provide some reason why Java man isn't. You can use classification if you like. That is up to you. However, a classification is like a chemical formula. It can tell you some things, but not everything about a molecule. Position of the atoms for instance. But don't let me stop you. You seem to think a classification scheme is the end all and be all of answers.

Give it a whirl. I know you will since you throw out this rule stuff and it is your claim after all. I am interested in seeing the details.

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#106662
Nov 23, 2013
 
Extreme Ways wrote:
<quoted text>
I cannot answer it because Java man has no scientific classification. With no scientific classification science is not sure where he fits in. And if science does not know where he fits in then he cannot be considered a transitional because science has no ideal of what he is a transitional between. That is 8th grade logic.
If Java man shows characters ancestral to modern humans and derived characters found in modern humans, then why can't you consider it a transitional form? Java man would be transitional between modern man and some ancestor. That relationship is expressed by the possess characters and not from a taxonomic scheme.

Oh, I didn't realize you were a kid. Sorry.

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#106663
Nov 23, 2013
 
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>You are the one saying he isn't transitional, so you should be able to provide some reason why Java man isn't. You can use classification if you like. That is up to you. However, a classification is like a chemical formula. It can tell you some things, but not everything about a molecule. Position of the atoms for instance. But don't let me stop you. You seem to think a classification scheme is the end all and be all of answers.
Give it a whirl. I know you will since you throw out this rule stuff and it is your claim after all. I am interested in seeing the details.
Java man has no scientific classification. With no scientific classification science is not sure where he fits in. And if science does not know where he fits in then he cannot be considered a transitional because science has no ideal of what he is a transitional between.

Your up next. What is your answer?

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#106664
Nov 23, 2013
 
Extreme Ways wrote:
<quoted text>
Need a link here. No link, no nothing.
I am not sure how " show your link" missed your eye.
Homo erectus is the name of the European and African version but has these variants or subspecies
Pithecanthropus erectus = first Java man
Sinanthropus pekinensis = Peking man
Javanthropus soloensis = true java man

Homo erectus georgicus= Russian

Though precise placement of all species is very hard to determine, these are considered to be all subspecies of the same Hominid.
Do you really need a link to look up Homo Erectus?

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#106665
Nov 23, 2013
 
Extreme Ways wrote:
<quoted text>
You are saying Java man is a transitional so you should be able to give a scientific classification of Java man so we can see where he fits in.
How many times do you have to be told that Java Man is Homo erectus.

Is the Smithsonian a good enough source for you?

http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/human-fos...

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

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#106666
Nov 23, 2013
 
Extreme Ways wrote:
<quoted text>
I cannot answer it because Java man has no scientific classification. With no scientific classification science is not sure where he fits in. And if science does not know where he fits in then he cannot be considered a transitional because science has no ideal of what he is a transitional between. That is 8th grade logic.
Your education is lacking.

'Java Man (Homo erectus erectus) is the name given to fossils discovered in 1891 at Trinil - Ngawi Regency on the banks of the Solo River in East Java, Indonesia, one of the first known specimens of Homo erectus. Its discoverer, Eugène Dubois, gave it the scientific name Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man.'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Man

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#106667
Nov 23, 2013
 
Extreme Ways wrote:
<quoted text>
So basically you do not know what it is. And my definition is on cue and goes with what I say about the article.
No, I am not saying I don't know what it is. You need to read more closely, as I stated, I had given a definition.

What you appear to be stating by referencing that article is that anthropologist agree by consensus that modern man evolved from the African population of H. erectus. No one is disputing that. You really have come out and said how this makes this prevents Java man from being considered as a transitional form. You do seem to imply that a transitional form has to be a direct ancestor to the present species. You have been told this isn't correct. Instead of learning you seem to be obsessing on showing your version is true when even your own references don't say that.

You are young, so you have a lot to learn yet. I would recommend you read up on this and study hard in school.

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#106668
Nov 23, 2013
 
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>If Java man shows characters ancestral to modern humans and derived characters found in modern humans, then why can't you consider it a transitional form? Java man would be transitional between modern man and some ancestor. That relationship is expressed by the possess characters and not from a taxonomic scheme.
Oh, I didn't realize you were a kid. Sorry.
Show a link or evidence to support your claim. We both know there is no scientific classification for Java man so he cannot be considered a transitional species because they have no clue where he fits in at. Until the java man is just a fossil!

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#106669
Nov 23, 2013
 
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Homo erectus is the name of the European and African version but has these variants or subspecies
Pithecanthropus erectus = first Java man
Sinanthropus pekinensis = Peking man
Javanthropus soloensis = true java man
Homo erectus georgicus= Russian
Though precise placement of all species is very hard to determine, these are considered to be all subspecies of the same Hominid.
Do you really need a link to look up Homo Erectus?
I know what other species are classified as. I want a link showing a scientific classification for Java man or even one that shows science has even classified him.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

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#106670
Nov 23, 2013
 
Extreme Ways wrote:
<quoted text>
You are saying Java man is a transitional so you should be able to give a scientific classification of Java man so we can see where he fits in.
It doesn't matter since he is a Homo, that means either he is a direct ancestor, or a cousin of an ancestral line that died out.
Either way he was a transitional or intermediate species.
The fact we can't place him exactly where he belongs on the tree is irrelevant , we sill know the branch, whether he is own his own sub branch or on an existing branch is what hasn't been decided.

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#106671
Nov 23, 2013
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
How many times do you have to be told that Java Man is Homo erectus.
Is the Smithsonian a good enough source for you?
http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/human-fos...
Homo erectus is a species.

I want a complete scientific classification of java man with links to support it.

Kingdom:
Phylum:
Class:
Order:
Family:
Tribe:
Genus:
Species

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#106672
Nov 23, 2013
 
Extreme Ways wrote:
<quoted text>
Show a link or evidence to support your claim. We both know there is no scientific classification for Java man so he cannot be considered a transitional species because they have no clue where he fits in at. Until the java man is just a fossil!
I know that this site takes a few minutes to update, so this post of your isn't quite as pathetically wrong as it seems. It is still wrong.

The Smithsonian Institute is the premier museum in the U.S.. If they say Java Man is Homo erectus, it is Homo erectus.

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#106673
Nov 23, 2013
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
How many times do you have to be told that Java Man is Homo erectus.
Is the Smithsonian a good enough source for you?
http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/human-fos...
And actually he is said to be the species homo erectus erectus.

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#106674
Nov 23, 2013
 
Extreme Ways wrote:
<quoted text>
Java man has no scientific classification. With no scientific classification science is not sure where he fits in. And if science does not know where he fits in then he cannot be considered a transitional because science has no ideal of what he is a transitional between.
Your up next. What is your answer?
I am not the expert on human evolution that you pretend to be, but aren't Java man and Peking man, just H. erectus? Did you think they were of a different species?

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

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#106675
Nov 23, 2013
 
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