Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story

“Get Extreme or Go Home. ”

Since: Nov 13

United States

#106617 Nov 23, 2013
Even the darkest hour still only has sixty minutes. How long it last's in life is up to us.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#106618 Nov 23, 2013
Extreme Ways wrote:
<quoted text>
Their big mistake with Java man was to try to label it as a transitional. Which didn't pan out.
What??!

What have you been smoking? Of course it is a transitional fossil. In fact it has been identified as a transitional fossil by creationists themselves.

“Get Extreme or Go Home. ”

Since: Nov 13

United States

#106619 Nov 23, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
What??!
What have you been smoking? Of course it is a transitional fossil. In fact it has been identified as a transitional fossil by creationists themselves.
I haven't been smoking anything but have been reading(to name one) the wiki bible everyone swears by.

Until older human remains were discovered in the Great Rift Valley in Kenya, Dubois' and Koenigswald's discoveries were the oldest hominid remains ever found. Some scientists of the day suggested[5] Dubois' Java Man as a potential intermediate form between modern humans and the common ancestor we share with the other great apes. The current consensus of anthropologists is that the direct ancestors of modern humans were African populations of Homo erectus (possibly Homo ergaster), rather than the Asian populations exemplified by Java Man and Peking Man.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Man

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#106620 Nov 23, 2013
Extreme Ways wrote:
<quoted text>
I haven't been smoking anything but have been reading(to name one) the wiki bible everyone swears by.
Until older human remains were discovered in the Great Rift Valley in Kenya, Dubois' and Koenigswald's discoveries were the oldest hominid remains ever found. Some scientists of the day suggested[5] Dubois' Java Man as a potential intermediate form between modern humans and the common ancestor we share with the other great apes. The current consensus of anthropologists is that the direct ancestors of modern humans were African populations of Homo erectus (possibly Homo ergaster), rather than the Asian populations exemplified by Java Man and Peking Man.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Man
And your article supports my claim.

Do you even know what a transitional fossil is?

“River of tears flowing out of ”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

West Plains

#106621 Nov 23, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
And your article supports my claim.
Do you even know what a transitional fossil is?
I think the problem is that she thinks she knows what a transitional fossil is, while this understanding is incomplete or wrong.

“Get Extreme or Go Home. ”

Since: Nov 13

United States

#106622 Nov 23, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
And your article supports my claim.
Do you even know what a transitional fossil is?
A transitional fossil is supposedly a fossil that exhibits traits of groups of which it came from and to what it became.

As my article stated,

Some scientists of the day suggested Dubois' Java Man as a potential intermediate form between modern humans and the common ancestor we share with the other great apes.

And it also stated,

The current consensus of anthropologists is that the direct ancestors of modern humans were African populations of Homo erectus (possibly Homo ergaster), "rather" than the Asian populations exemplified by Java Man and Peking Man.

“River of tears flowing out of ”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

West Plains

#106623 Nov 23, 2013
Extreme Ways wrote:
<quoted text>
A transitional fossil is supposedly a fossil that exhibits traits of groups of which it came from and to what it became.
As my article stated,
Some scientists of the day suggested Dubois' Java Man as a potential intermediate form between modern humans and the common ancestor we share with the other great apes.
And it also stated,
The current consensus of anthropologists is that the direct ancestors of modern humans were African populations of Homo erectus (possibly Homo ergaster), "rather" than the Asian populations exemplified by Java Man and Peking Man.
So it can still be a transitional form.

“Get Extreme or Go Home. ”

Since: Nov 13

United States

#106624 Nov 23, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>So it can still be a transitional form.
I guess that depends on what scientists say it is and whether or not you want to believe that scientists. There will be scientists that say no and others that say yes. Same as there will be people that believe the scientists that says yes and there will be people that believe the scientists that says no.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#106625 Nov 23, 2013
To try to clear this up for you. The actual descent may have occurred in Africa. Since Java man is also an example of Homo erectus, which is a species that man descended from any Homo erectus fossil anywhere on the Earth would be a transitional species whether or not it was the actual species that we descended from.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#106626 Nov 23, 2013
Extreme Ways wrote:
<quoted text>
I guess that depends on what scientists say it is and whether or not you want to believe that scientists. There will be scientists that say no and others that say yes. Same as there will be people that believe the scientists that says yes and there will be people that believe the scientists that says no.
Then find a scientist that actually says no. You haven't done that yet.

And please, no creatards. They clearly do not count.

“River of tears flowing out of ”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

West Plains

#106627 Nov 23, 2013
Extreme Ways wrote:
<quoted text>
I guess that depends on what scientists say it is and whether or not you want to believe that scientists. There will be scientists that say no and others that say yes. Same as there will be people that believe the scientists that says yes and there will be people that believe the scientists that says no.
That is just your conjecture.

It fits the definition of transitional form. Anthropologists may not accept it as being a direct ancestor to modern man, but I haven't seen anything that says they no longer consider it a transitional form.

“Get Extreme or Go Home. ”

Since: Nov 13

United States

#106628 Nov 23, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>So it can still be a transitional form.
When you read this,

"The current consensus of anthropologists is that the direct ancestors of modern humans were African populations of Homo erectus (possibly Homo ergaster), "rather" than the Asian populations exemplified by Java Man and Peking Man."

What do you perceive out of that about it currently being seen as a transitional fossil?

“Get Extreme or Go Home. ”

Since: Nov 13

United States

#106629 Nov 23, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Then find a scientist that actually says no. You haven't done that yet.
And please, no creatards. They clearly do not count.
From the same article.

When you read this,

"The current consensus of anthropologists is that the direct ancestors of modern humans were African populations of Homo erectus (possibly Homo ergaster), "rather" than the Asian populations exemplified by Java Man and Peking Man."

What do you perceive out of that about it currently being seen as a transitional fossil?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#106630 Nov 23, 2013
Extreme Ways wrote:
<quoted text>
When you read this,
"The current consensus of anthropologists is that the direct ancestors of modern humans were African populations of Homo erectus (possibly Homo ergaster), "rather" than the Asian populations exemplified by Java Man and Peking Man."
What do you perceive out of that about it currently being seen as a transitional fossil?
It is pretty clear that both of us see that as supporting our claims.

Put it this way, does it say that the African species of Homo erectus is a different species than the Asian fossils?

“Get Extreme or Go Home. ”

Since: Nov 13

United States

#106631 Nov 23, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
It is pretty clear that both of us see that as supporting our claims.
Put it this way, does it say that the African species of Homo erectus is a different species than the Asian fossils?
Lets break it down.

"The current consensus of anthropologists is that the direct ancestors of modern humans were African populations of Homo erectus (possibly Homo ergaster), "rather" than the Asian populations exemplified by Java Man and Peking Man."

"rather" than the Asian populations exemplified by Java Man and Peking Man."

"rather" than

"rather"

Now hook that all up and tell me what you get!
davy

Albuquerque, NM

#106632 Nov 23, 2013
So it doesn't seem as scientific as a story about a talking snake?
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
BS, is not an appropriate reply. Every time you look deeper into the genome you find restrictions to an orgaisms ability to adapt. Your wish list was to find beneficial mutations helping others along and more beneficial mutations than deleterious ones, you did not want to find a deteriorating genome. Where is your good news?
Despite all your biased and flawed research your data does nothing to bolster your claims but does bolster mine. Boo Hoo for you, like it or not. Your spamming won't change anything.
If humans and gorillas are 98% similar by some comparison, how can a credible chimp and gorilla comparison score less than this?
Comparative genomics is rubbish and based on false algorithmic magic that is only evidence of a prevailing bias, not reality.

“River of tears flowing out of ”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

West Plains

#106633 Nov 23, 2013
Extreme Ways wrote:
<quoted text>
When you read this,
"The current consensus of anthropologists is that the direct ancestors of modern humans were African populations of Homo erectus (possibly Homo ergaster), "rather" than the Asian populations exemplified by Java Man and Peking Man."
What do you perceive out of that about it currently being seen as a transitional fossil?
I see a statement that anthropologists agree that H. erectus is considered our direct ancestors. This does not change the fact that the populations from Indonesia are transitional forms. Transitional forms do not need to be directly ancestral to a species to be such.

I take it that you read this and consider Java man is no longer a transitional form. That would be incorrect based on the definition of transitional form and is not what the text says.

“River of tears flowing out of ”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

West Plains

#106634 Nov 23, 2013
Extreme Ways wrote:
<quoted text>
Lets break it down.
"The current consensus of anthropologists is that the direct ancestors of modern humans were African populations of Homo erectus (possibly Homo ergaster), "rather" than the Asian populations exemplified by Java Man and Peking Man."
"rather" than the Asian populations exemplified by Java Man and Peking Man."
"rather" than
"rather"
Now hook that all up and tell me what you get!
Again, it specifies one population as being directly ancestral and the other is not. This does not render it no longer a transtional form. This consensus does not remove the ancestral and derived characters that make it so.

“River of tears flowing out of ”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

West Plains

#106635 Nov 23, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
It is pretty clear that both of us see that as supporting our claims.
Put it this way, does it say that the African species of Homo erectus is a different species than the Asian fossils?
I'm not sure what he is missing SZ. Other than holding his hand, I don't think either of us could make it more clear.

“River of tears flowing out of ”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

West Plains

#106636 Nov 23, 2013
davy wrote:
So it doesn't seem as scientific as a story about a talking snake?
<quoted text>
I don't think you are going to get these guys to talk about this talking snake. Too Freudian for them.

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