Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 221949 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#106649 Nov 23, 2013
Extreme Ways wrote:
<quoted text>
What they are saying is they think Java man is not a direct ancestor of modern humans, but another “group”. Whereas a transitional fossil is supposedly a fossil that exhibits traits of groups from which it came from and to what it became. Which if it is from another group, it is not a transitional.
No, simply wrong. You are trying to make too high of a standard. If you want to say that then you could deny that any fossil is transitional since there is no way to tell if any individual fossil had any progeny.

The fact that they are the same species is more than close enough. In some cases species that may or may not have been on the direct line are still considered "transitional" as long as they are "close enough" to being between two other recognizable species.

For example we are not sure that tiktaalik was on any direct line. It is close enough to pure fish and pure land animals to be considered a transitional.

“Get Extreme or Go Home. ”

Since: Nov 13

United States

#106650 Nov 23, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Kingdom:Animalia
Phylum:Chordata
Class:Mammalia
Order:Primates
Family:Hominidae
Genus:Homo
Species:H. erectus
Sub Species Javanthropus soloensis
Need a link here. No link, no nothing.

I am not sure how " show your link" missed your eye.

“Get Extreme or Go Home. ”

Since: Nov 13

United States

#106651 Nov 23, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>You need to chat with this BlueBalls chick I have been debating with. She uses the same style you do. Maybe you could get her to understand that she doesn't know shit about evolution.
So you cannot answer then, other words fill in the blanks?

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#106652 Nov 23, 2013
Extreme Ways wrote:
<quoted text>
I want to hear it from you.
Well you can't hear it from anyone on here, but I believe I just did write it. Again, you seem rather overly obsessed with this minor point. How does this impact the view of human evolution again?

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#106653 Nov 23, 2013
Extreme Ways wrote:
<quoted text>
Same statement to you.
Lets just make it easy.
Give me the Scientific classification of Java man. Other words fill in the blanks. Show links for your answers.
Kingdom:
Phylum:
Class:
Order:
Family:
Tribe:
Genus:
Species:
I'm not interested in furthering your obsession when the question has been answered. If you want to play, play with yourself.

“Get Extreme or Go Home. ”

Since: Nov 13

United States

#106654 Nov 23, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>Well you can't hear it from anyone on here, but I believe I just did write it. Again, you seem rather overly obsessed with this minor point. How does this impact the view of human evolution again?
So basically you do not know what it is. And my definition is on cue and goes with what I say about the article.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#106655 Nov 23, 2013
Extreme Ways wrote:
<quoted text>
So you cannot answer then, other words fill in the blanks?
You'd think that wouldn't you.

I don't have to meet your demands in order to be correct. If you can't accept the facts, playing your pointless little game isn't going change that and I don't know how it makes it any easier than what SZ and I have stated.

Your obsession does not change anything. You seemed more concerned with showing that you are right than in answering how this would change the current view of human evolution.

Java man is a transitional form in the evolution of humans. Maybe he isn't our direct ancestor, but that changes nothing regarding the fact that he shows both ancestral and derived characters.

“Get Extreme or Go Home. ”

Since: Nov 13

United States

#106656 Nov 23, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
No, simply wrong. You are trying to make too high of a standard. If you want to say that then you could deny that any fossil is transitional since there is no way to tell if any individual fossil had any progeny.
The fact that they are the same species is more than close enough. In some cases species that may or may not have been on the direct line are still considered "transitional" as long as they are "close enough" to being between two other recognizable species.
For example we are not sure that tiktaalik was on any direct line. It is close enough to pure fish and pure land animals to be considered a transitional.
I say again.

Lets just make it easy. Lets see where Java man fits in.

Give me the Scientific classification of Java man. Other words fill in the blanks. Show links for your answers.

Kingdom:
Phylum:
Class:
Order:
Family:
Tribe:
Genus:
Species

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#106657 Nov 23, 2013
Extreme Ways wrote:
<quoted text>
So you cannot answer then, other words fill in the blanks?
Guess not. Too bad for me isn't it.

“Get Extreme or Go Home. ”

Since: Nov 13

United States

#106658 Nov 23, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>I'm not interested in furthering your obsession when the question has been answered. If you want to play, play with yourself.
It is not shame because you can't answer. It is shame to be stupid and act like you already know.

“Get Extreme or Go Home. ”

Since: Nov 13

United States

#106659 Nov 23, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>I'm not interested in furthering your obsession when the question has been answered. If you want to play, play with yourself.
You are saying Java man is a transitional so you should be able to give a scientific classification of Java man so we can see where he fits in.

“Get Extreme or Go Home. ”

Since: Nov 13

United States

#106660 Nov 23, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>Guess not. Too bad for me isn't it.
I cannot answer it because Java man has no scientific classification. With no scientific classification science is not sure where he fits in. And if science does not know where he fits in then he cannot be considered a transitional because science has no ideal of what he is a transitional between. That is 8th grade logic.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#106661 Nov 23, 2013
Extreme Ways wrote:
<quoted text>
You are saying Java man is a transitional so you should be able to give a scientific classification of Java man so we can see where he fits in.
You are the one saying he isn't transitional, so you should be able to provide some reason why Java man isn't. You can use classification if you like. That is up to you. However, a classification is like a chemical formula. It can tell you some things, but not everything about a molecule. Position of the atoms for instance. But don't let me stop you. You seem to think a classification scheme is the end all and be all of answers.

Give it a whirl. I know you will since you throw out this rule stuff and it is your claim after all. I am interested in seeing the details.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#106662 Nov 23, 2013
Extreme Ways wrote:
<quoted text>
I cannot answer it because Java man has no scientific classification. With no scientific classification science is not sure where he fits in. And if science does not know where he fits in then he cannot be considered a transitional because science has no ideal of what he is a transitional between. That is 8th grade logic.
If Java man shows characters ancestral to modern humans and derived characters found in modern humans, then why can't you consider it a transitional form? Java man would be transitional between modern man and some ancestor. That relationship is expressed by the possess characters and not from a taxonomic scheme.

Oh, I didn't realize you were a kid. Sorry.

“Get Extreme or Go Home. ”

Since: Nov 13

United States

#106663 Nov 23, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>You are the one saying he isn't transitional, so you should be able to provide some reason why Java man isn't. You can use classification if you like. That is up to you. However, a classification is like a chemical formula. It can tell you some things, but not everything about a molecule. Position of the atoms for instance. But don't let me stop you. You seem to think a classification scheme is the end all and be all of answers.
Give it a whirl. I know you will since you throw out this rule stuff and it is your claim after all. I am interested in seeing the details.
Java man has no scientific classification. With no scientific classification science is not sure where he fits in. And if science does not know where he fits in then he cannot be considered a transitional because science has no ideal of what he is a transitional between.

Your up next. What is your answer?

“ad victoriam”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#106664 Nov 23, 2013
Extreme Ways wrote:
<quoted text>
Need a link here. No link, no nothing.
I am not sure how " show your link" missed your eye.
Homo erectus is the name of the European and African version but has these variants or subspecies
Pithecanthropus erectus = first Java man
Sinanthropus pekinensis = Peking man
Javanthropus soloensis = true java man

Homo erectus georgicus= Russian

Though precise placement of all species is very hard to determine, these are considered to be all subspecies of the same Hominid.
Do you really need a link to look up Homo Erectus?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#106665 Nov 23, 2013
Extreme Ways wrote:
<quoted text>
You are saying Java man is a transitional so you should be able to give a scientific classification of Java man so we can see where he fits in.
How many times do you have to be told that Java Man is Homo erectus.

Is the Smithsonian a good enough source for you?

http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/human-fos...

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#106666 Nov 23, 2013
Extreme Ways wrote:
<quoted text>
I cannot answer it because Java man has no scientific classification. With no scientific classification science is not sure where he fits in. And if science does not know where he fits in then he cannot be considered a transitional because science has no ideal of what he is a transitional between. That is 8th grade logic.
Your education is lacking.

'Java Man (Homo erectus erectus) is the name given to fossils discovered in 1891 at Trinil - Ngawi Regency on the banks of the Solo River in East Java, Indonesia, one of the first known specimens of Homo erectus. Its discoverer, Eugène Dubois, gave it the scientific name Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man.'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Man

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#106667 Nov 23, 2013
Extreme Ways wrote:
<quoted text>
So basically you do not know what it is. And my definition is on cue and goes with what I say about the article.
No, I am not saying I don't know what it is. You need to read more closely, as I stated, I had given a definition.

What you appear to be stating by referencing that article is that anthropologist agree by consensus that modern man evolved from the African population of H. erectus. No one is disputing that. You really have come out and said how this makes this prevents Java man from being considered as a transitional form. You do seem to imply that a transitional form has to be a direct ancestor to the present species. You have been told this isn't correct. Instead of learning you seem to be obsessing on showing your version is true when even your own references don't say that.

You are young, so you have a lot to learn yet. I would recommend you read up on this and study hard in school.

“Get Extreme or Go Home. ”

Since: Nov 13

United States

#106668 Nov 23, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>If Java man shows characters ancestral to modern humans and derived characters found in modern humans, then why can't you consider it a transitional form? Java man would be transitional between modern man and some ancestor. That relationship is expressed by the possess characters and not from a taxonomic scheme.
Oh, I didn't realize you were a kid. Sorry.
Show a link or evidence to support your claim. We both know there is no scientific classification for Java man so he cannot be considered a transitional species because they have no clue where he fits in at. Until the java man is just a fossil!

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