Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story

SBT
Level 2

Since: Jun 13

United States

#106320 Nov 20, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Didn't waste my time.(shrug) I appreciate you didn't bother dealing with my post either.
<quoted text>

Fundies can't count. Plus refuse to take other factors into account such as mountain building. At GLOBAL FLOOD erosion rates there would BE no mountains. Plus even better you then NEED evolution to happen to account for biological variation from a tiny population.
Of course that tiny population are now crispy-critters, but...
I appreciate that you took in the video. Studying where I did, there was a whole team of Geologists that worked in the mid-ocean rifts. Chatted w/some about their work. Learned a few things that were also integrated into courses. Brown has alot going for him in his hypothesis that resonated w/me. Why were the frozen mammoths peppered with meteorite shrapnel for one. I could give you more from the rift zones, alot more.

Have in above post to SZ

On turtles, they control their buoyancy and conserve air, totally diff than other reptiles so they would be deposited in upper strata, and they are.

On genetics all agree that things are corrupting not enhancing. Further supports my point, going back = pure gene data and an evo proof Cell/DNA mechanism. So by that if mutations are the rule we should be more broken down in Ayala's "Genetic load". Were are having those issues. The evo genetic experts are simply flooding the media with corn data to hide whats going on, they are going backward's and lose every time someone turns the microscopes up a few more power. Your side has a real problem on the DNA/Cell side and would be annihilated in a public debate anytime, anyday.

Consider "junk" DNA. Consider fold markers, the list goes on and grows nearly every quarter, then someone quickly conjures up a new evolutionary explanation. Then my side picks them apart and your side say's all we do is act like critics and don't do any real science. Partly true because your folks have many more spin masters to keep in check. Partly wrong because our fullltime people came out of research mainly too keep those boys honest, a real chore these days. Least Dean Kenyon, evo hero of the 70"s, was man enough to come clean. That's the truth. To be scientific, you must explain the non-life barrier and you can't.

At uniform erosion rates, all the mountains of earth would be worn flat in <20MY, love it when they get dated old. Why are the Himalayas sea floor? They show little sign of erosion, with that weather a few thousand years should have them rounded off. Check into it.

Above is just a reminder from my non-answer, answer and your ongoing dodging, like the Foraman Ovale "evolution" that you are stumped over, like the Proton Powered Axial Motor you are stumped over, like you had not a clue how stratigraphy is identified using fossil deposits but yet are an evolutionist! Armchair posting?

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#106321 Nov 20, 2013
Patriot wrote:
Albert Einstein was correct when he said that space and time are curved.
Albert Einstein and Science are WRONG when they say the "Fastest thing in the universe is the Speed of Light."
The Fastest thing in the Universe is the Speed of Thought.... roll that around in your brain....
Jesus said,:Which one of you by taking thought can change One Hair on your head?"
God and whatever machine he chooses to ride in, if he wants one, can Think himself and his optional machine from one side of the Universe in the blink of an eye, NOT Hundreds of Thousands of Light Years.
Look for him and/or the angels in the skies near you...
The Bible says, "Strange things will be seen in the skies in the End Times."
The speed of though was thought to be quite slow, in the realms of metres per second, hence reaction times to stimuli in of an average 0.7 of a second. Recently developed techniques show that individual neurones need only twenty to thirty milliseconds to mediate perception.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/...

However still a snails pace compared to the speed of light that would travel the distance of a neurone in fractions of pico second

I believe what you are confusing with thought is actually imagination and of course there is no limit to what people can imagine.

The babble says lots of things, the babble says your god was the first trickster, first to commit genocide, the first mass murderer of children, your god condones slavery, rape and theft. So please to not be upset when some people are not willing to bow down to a god like that.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#106322 Nov 20, 2013
SBT wrote:
Above is just a reminder from my non-answer, answer and your ongoing dodging, like the Foraman Ovale "evolution" that you are stumped over, like the Proton Powered Axial Motor you are stumped over, like you had not a clue how stratigraphy is identified using fossil deposits but yet are an evolutionist! Armchair posting?
Yes, your reminder is nothing more than an example of projection.

Remember, you don't HAVE any good points. On the off chance you managed to come up with anything even SLIGHTLY plausible we can ignore it as it's already been undercut by some MAJOR booboos that you have not addressed. Ever. You can't point to some interesting geological quirk then claim that all science is wrong therefore Flood when Flood wipes out Noah and co in numerous horrible and quite final ways. This is then "solved" with Jewmagic.

Keep dodging, Subordinate.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#106323 Nov 20, 2013
Patriot wrote:
<quoted text>
You might note that the Ancient Egyptians believed in a pantheon of gods, Big Gods and little gods, and they Always believed in ONE Supreme Being.... a GOD of the gods..
You are right in that for a short time under one Pharaoh the worship of local little gods was banned, and he ONLY Allowed the worship of the ONE Supreme God___Amen Ra.
When he died the UNemployed Priests of the temples of the little gods got their way and re-opened the temples to the little gods and the Priests went back to work making money and goods.
Yes, Akhenaten. Aten was his substitute for Ra.

Amun-Ra was a composite god. Originally they were two separate gods. Ra, god of the sun and Amun, god of hidden power.
So attempting to portray the ancient Egyptian religion as monotheistic is a bit of a stretch.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#106324 Nov 20, 2013
Patriot wrote:
The Fastest thing in the Universe is the Speed of Thought.... roll that around in your brain....
Ah... No. Thought operates by electrical and chemical signaling. Still not faster then the speed of light.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#106325 Nov 20, 2013
davy wrote:
...and the colored girls sing, doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo...
<quoted text>
Laffin!!!!

Props!

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#106326 Nov 20, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>It was sad to hear of the passing of Lou Reed.
Indeed. He had one hell of an influence on music.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#106327 Nov 20, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Also argued that the nutty pharaoh belief was the source of the Hebrew one god belief and also spawned the son (sun) of god belief
Which is a bit strange considering that this would mean that the Hebrews adopted a pagan god rather than having on of their own.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#106328 Nov 20, 2013
SBT wrote:
Brown has postulated for many years that when the drills go deep enough, they should hit the original remnant aquifer at 7-10 miles down, in the last several years they have. Another feature along the rifts is the parallel lines of magma "stretch marks". These lines are the seams made at the 6 hour ebb and flow of the lunar cycles acting on the crust as new material was pushed out by the lunar effect that warped the curst.
See Dr. Walt Browns video in the links on this site;
http://www.genesisalive.com/2013/10/the-first...
More on the Aquifer network and Ox16/18 issue;
http://www.genesisalive.com/2013/10/the-first...
The paper cited in the above mentions the ratio of Ox16/18 where scientists are perplexed why its off in early-earth polar samples, different due to how far water makes contact with terrain before being used by flora. More smoking gun evidence that the hydro system was exactly what the Bible records.
Rather humorous that even Glenn Morton thinks Brown is a loony.

http://www.oldearth.org/walter_brown_hydropla...

SBT
Level 2

Since: Jun 13

United States

#106329 Nov 20, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, your reminder is nothing more than an example of projection.
Remember, you don't HAVE any good points. On the off chance you managed to come up with anything even SLIGHTLY plausible we can ignore it as it's already been undercut by some MAJOR booboos that you have not addressed. Ever. You can't point to some interesting geological quirk then claim that all science is wrong therefore Flood when Flood wipes out Noah and co in numerous horrible and quite final ways. This is then "solved" with Jewmagic.
Keep dodging, Subordinate.
So I get this lecture about answering in science but this conjecture doesn't apply to you, then you state I didn't answer when I did as above, claim I dodge when I don't, then avoid and deflect the real challenges. Origins is a puzzle, I think when we put enough pieces together the puzzle will be a picture of God, exonerated from all of mans failures to understand. I present puzzle pieces, you claim I cherrypick and am against "all science", wrong, I am against "science, falsely so called" where operational science and evo origins science split. I call out any origins belief that are biased and unsubstantiated. Why, because I was brainwashed in public school by given one-sided stories by people like Kenyon, Sager and other Darwinist's that got into the school text's and teachers heads. I saw people take wrong paths in life and self destructed, living or dead over these things. Evolutionism is wrong, easily controverted once other evidence is presented and like it or not that's true. In my experience being in this for 37 years the evidence only builds for this position. Like the MO-1, Moon orbital escape and magnetism and on and on, more daily, it all fits.

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#106330 Nov 20, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Which is a bit strange considering that this would mean that the Hebrews adopted a pagan god rather than having on of their own.
I donít see any strangeness in it, the Hebrews were in Egypt about that time, probably as slaves. Akhenaten had el-Amarna built with slave labour as a centre of worship for his new god

It was supposedly soon after (within living memory) that the Hebrews quit Egypt for a long walk in the desert.

There are arguments that Moses was originally an Atenist priest, there are several book discussing the idea

There is even discussion that Moses was Akhenaten

The Tanakh (and hence the babble) claims that some Hebrews were polytheistic

Discounting these ideas of Moses/Akhenatan I think it is probable, highly possible that the Hebrews adapted what they had from recent experience, including recycling the idea of a one god.

“The strength of science is”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

founded in facts.

#106331 Nov 20, 2013
SBT wrote:
<quoted text>
So I get this lecture about answering in science but this conjecture doesn't apply to you, then you state I didn't answer when I did as above, claim I dodge when I don't, then avoid and deflect the real challenges. Origins is a puzzle, I think when we put enough pieces together the puzzle will be a picture of God, exonerated from all of mans failures to understand. I present puzzle pieces, you claim I cherrypick and am against "all science", wrong, I am against "science, falsely so called" where operational science and evo origins science split. I call out any origins belief that are biased and unsubstantiated. Why, because I was brainwashed in public school by given one-sided stories by people like Kenyon, Sager and other Darwinist's that got into the school text's and teachers heads. I saw people take wrong paths in life and self destructed, living or dead over these things. Evolutionism is wrong, easily controverted once other evidence is presented and like it or not that's true. In my experience being in this for 37 years the evidence only builds for this position. Like the MO-1, Moon orbital escape and magnetism and on and on, more daily, it all fits.
Self destructed over science...living or dead...Its the ZOMBIES man. Its the ZOMBIES. We have to stop them.

"Evolutionism is wrong". You could refine your posts down to this core claim because it is all you really say. You have no evidence that supports this claim and any you have offered has been previously refuted. You can't stand the idea that your belief system doesn't fit the facts so rather that adjust your beliefs you attack the facts and the science that finds and explains them.

I can only speculate about what you have been in for 37 years. My guess is therapy or perhaps confinement.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#106332 Nov 20, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
I donít see any strangeness in it...[/QUOTE}

Perhaps not the best choice of words on my part. Ironic might have been a better choice.

[QUOTE who="ChristineM"]... the Hebrews were in Egypt about that time, probably as slaves.

As were the Egyptian in Canaan and its surroundings. No doubt the cultures were in intimate contact.

[QUOTE who="ChristineM"]Akh enaten had el-Amarna built with slave labour as a centre of worship for his new god
It was supposedly soon after (within living memory) that the Hebrews quit Egypt for a long walk in the desert.
There are arguments that Moses was originally an Atenist priest, there are several book discussing the idea
There is even discussion that Moses was Akhenaten
The Tanakh (and hence the babble) claims that some Hebrews were polytheistic
Discounting these ideas of Moses/Akhenatan I think it is probable, highly possible that the Hebrews adapted what they had from recent experience, including recycling the idea of a one god.
I think that likely.(Ignoring for a moment that I don't buy the Moses/Exodus story)

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#106333 Nov 20, 2013
Crap. Screwed up the tags. Oh well...

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#106334 Nov 20, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
I think that likely.(Ignoring for a moment that I don't buy the Moses/Exodus story)
Intimate contact and constant flux.

Yes likely and perhaps a better (or at least as good a) fit to the scant but known facts as any other story of the time

I am sure the story is not as described in the Tanakh, but for sure the Hebrews had to come from somewhere so there may be and inkling of truth in it.

Moses or someone(s) later named Moses was perhaps a figure head, a rallying cry. Maybe someone or few who had the nouse to keep a bunch of disgruntled people together or just a good way of characterising a story.

SBT
Level 2

Since: Jun 13

United States

#106335 Nov 20, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Rather humorous that even Glenn Morton thinks Brown is a loony.
http://www.oldearth.org/walter_brown_hydropla...
Mr. Morton makes some pretty outlandish claims here, there are no "strongly suggests" or "this could be" he asserts "is", "cant's" etc... When theorists start talking in absolute terms such as there could be "no mountains or earthquakes" or it would all fail etc., makes me suspect. This is also 10 years old.

Browns updated eveidence gives his idea credence because he hypothesized such years back and now is proven correct, when no one believed it (deep drill results).

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#106336 Nov 20, 2013
SBT wrote:
<quoted text>
Mr. Morton makes some pretty outlandish claims here, there are no "strongly suggests" or "this could be" he asserts "is", "cant's" etc... When theorists start talking in absolute terms such as there could be "no mountains or earthquakes" or it would all fail etc., makes me suspect. This is also 10 years old.
Browns updated eveidence gives his idea credence because he hypothesized such years back and now is proven correct, when no one believed it (deep drill results).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =sD9ZGt9UA-UXX
Morton's claims are outlandish yet Brown's claims are not. Interesting.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#106337 Nov 20, 2013
SBT wrote:
So I get this lecture about answering in science but this conjecture doesn't apply to you, then you state I didn't answer when I did as above, claim I dodge when I don't, then avoid and deflect the real challenges.
There ARE no challenges. All that's happening is that you're denying reality, we're pointing that out, then you ignore it then lie a lot. This is why you're having so much trouble.
SBT wrote:
Origins is a puzzle, I think when we put enough pieces together the puzzle will be a picture of God
What you think is irrelevant to reality. But then you don't even think which puts you at an even greater disadvantage.
SBT wrote:
I present puzzle pieces, you claim I cherrypick and am against "all science", wrong, I am against "science, falsely so called" where operational science and evo origins science split.
If this were true you would not be a creationist. Fact is you aren't qualified to criticize science from even a laymen's level.
SBT wrote:
I call out any origins belief that are biased and unsubstantiated.
BS. Which is why you are a hypocrite
SBT wrote:
I saw people take wrong paths in life and self destructed, living or dead over these things.
This has no bearing at all on the validity of evolutionary biology.
SBT wrote:
Evolutionism is wrong, easily controverted once other evidence is presented and like it or not that's true.
If that's the case then how come no creationist on the planet has been able to falsify it yet? How come you're not able to present a single shred of evidence?

Your problem is that your objections, rooted in theological apologetics, are based on foundations you cannot support, thus totally undercutting any and all arguments you might have. Our foundations are based on the axioms that reality is real and magic Jews are not scientifically demonstrable.

That's why we win all the time.

When you come to us with a PC that runs on Jewmagic then you can say 'I told you so'.
SBT wrote:
In my experience being in this for 37 years the evidence only builds for this position. Like the MO-1, Moon orbital escape and magnetism and on and on, more daily, it all fits.
Your experience is nil since you have demonstrated nothing except for your extreme lack of science education. How does a global flood drown everybody when temperatures reach 10,000 degrees?

Don't worry, ignore reality and just say that a global flood happened anyway despite ZERO evidence to support it and TONS of evidence against. Evidence doesn't matter when you argue for invisible Jewish magic anyway.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#106338 Nov 20, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
I think that likely.(Ignoring for a moment that I don't buy the Moses/Exodus story)
I think it's quite possible that Judeo-Christian mono-theism may well have had roots in Aten monotheism but personally I'm not convinced that the path was that direct. Though certainly the Bible pinched parts of Egyptian mythology (Moses in a basket and Jesus walking on water were done by earlier Egyptian characters), just as Christians plagiarised the Jews and Muslims plagiarised the Christians. Basically they were too lazy to make up their own myths.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#106339 Nov 20, 2013
SBT wrote:
<quoted text>
Mr. Morton makes some pretty outlandish claims here, there are no "strongly suggests" or "this could be" he asserts "is", "cant's" etc... When theorists start talking in absolute terms such as there could be "no mountains or earthquakes" or it would all fail etc., makes me suspect. This is also 10 years old.
Browns updated eveidence gives his idea credence because he hypothesized such years back and now is proven correct, when no one believed it (deep drill results).
Oh right, that must be why they use Morton's data to find oil deposits and not a hack like Brown.

Keep in mind that your boys DID send creationists out into the field during the eighties SPECIFICALLY to find evidence of the "flood". When they came back empty handed and told them the evidence demonstrated a (very) old Earth they stopped sending people out. And instead they made careers of spreading BS on the internet by misrepresenting science all from the comfort of their own armchairs.

You still ready to tackle the numerous problems with your position yet? You know, the stuff we've been telling you for months which you still haven't got around to dealing with yet?

Thought not.

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