Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story
Patriot

Savannah, GA

#106290 Nov 19, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
You might note the Egyptian did not believe in one god except for a very short period of one nutty pharaoh.
You might note that the Ancient Egyptians believed in a pantheon of gods, Big Gods and little gods, and they Always believed in ONE Supreme Being.... a GOD of the gods..

You are right in that for a short time under one Pharaoh the worship of local little gods was banned, and he ONLY Allowed the worship of the ONE Supreme God___Amen Ra.

When he died the UNemployed Priests of the temples of the little gods got their way and re-opened the temples to the little gods and the Priests went back to work making money and goods.
davy

Albuquerque, NM

#106291 Nov 19, 2013
The whales got loose?
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
We've already done whales, looser. We found descendants that predate their ancestors.
Tetrapods appear suddenly in the fossil record dated to 395mya. How about you talk about your nested hierarchies that root into tetrapoda, now that tiktaalic, the so called first tetrapod, has been falsified.

SBT
Level 2

Since: Jun 13

United States

#106292 Nov 19, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>

Turtles can do nothing when they die. Especially male leatherbacks who do not go on land and sink like a rock when dead, as they weigh half a ton to a ton in weight. Therefore all modern leatherbacks should be at the bottom of the geological column, all the way down there beneath the trilobites, prokaryotes and pre-Cambrian bunnies.
<quoted text>
Which therefore should cover FAR more than thousands of miles. Indicating then that it was a local event.
<quoted text>
On the contrary, it does not need to do so at all. For the EXACT same reason why the theory of gravity doesn't have to explain the origin of mass. All evolution requires is for life to be here. Life IS here.
Best of luck with that.
<quoted text>
Pure reality denial. If you were right we would all be identical clones. This not only contradicts observable genetics but what we can see with our own eyes. Oh, and there is nothing "outside" about life, unless you're pointing out that the vast majority of life is merely "outside" of your house.
Of which you apparently don't get out of very much.
<quoted text>
What mechanism? You proposed none. Genetics itself already falsifies your claims. We are all born with mutations. You claim they do not exist. You are wrong, period.
<quoted text>
"Doctor" Brown is not a doctor. He WAS a NASA engineer who "taught" high-school physics for 1 year, then he was born again. You can't move literally BILLIONS of tons of mass worldwide and expect everything to remain nice and cool. Especially as your buddy laughably claims that the flood is also responsible for all the asteroids, meteors and comets in the solar system. And what's more, some creationists like to add mountain-building into the mix, such as Mt Everest.
Noah's boat was made of wood.
If he had the USS Enterprise only then this scenario would work.
I appreciate that you took in the video. Studying where I did, there was a whole team of Geologists that worked in the mid-ocean rifts. Chatted w/some about their work. Learned a few things that were also integrated into courses. Brown has alot going for him in his hypothesis here that resonated w/me. Why were the frozen mammoths peppered with meteorite shrapnel for one. I could give you more from the rift zones, alot more.

On turtles, they control their buoyancy and conserve air, totally diff than other reptiles so they would be deposited in upper strata, and they are.

On genetics all agree that things are corrupting not enhancing. Further supports my point, going back = pure gene data and an evo proof Cell/DNA mechanism. So by that if mutations are the rule we should be more broken down in Ayala's "Genetic load". Were are having those issues. The evo genetic experts are simply flooding the media with corn data to hide whats going on, they are going backward's and lose every time someone turns the microscopes up a few more power. Your side has a real problem on the DNA/Cell side and would be annihilated in a public debate anytime, anyday.

Consider "junk" DNA. Consider fold markers, the list goes on and grows nearly every quarter, then someone quickly conjures up a new evolutionary explanation. Then my side picks them apart and your side say's all we do is act like critics and don't do any real science. Partly true because your folks have many more spin masters to keep in check. Partly wrong because our fullltime people came out of research mainly too keep those boys honest, a real chore these days. Least Dean Kenyon, evo hero of the 70"s, was man enough to come clean. That's the truth. To be scientific, you must explain the non-life barrier and you can't.

At uniform erosion rates, all the mountains of earth would be worn flat in <20MY, love it when they get dated old. Why are the Himalayas sea floor? They show little sign of erosion, with that weather a few thousand years should have them rounded off. Check into it.
Patriot

Savannah, GA

#106293 Nov 19, 2013
One should never assume that ONE Single "Holy" Book has all the answers.
God was around LONG Before the Bible and it's people came into existence.
ONE Source should never be used in attempts to prove or disprove the existence of a Supreme Being.
The Big Bang Theory is correct. The Supreme Being existed Before and after the Big Bang.. Time is a real tangible thing. If you can move through time, then you can live at any point in time when this world Or another world in the universe is habitable. God CAN DO That !! So, God is Not effected by the Big Bang....

Papyrus of Ani; Egyptian Book of the Dead [Budge]
www.africa.upenn.edu/Books/Papyrus_Ani.html
The god of the Celestial Ocean (Nu) draweth from thee his waters..... of eternity, the lord of everlastingness, who traverseth millions of years in his existence..... or , according to another reading, the Company of the Gods; may I smell the savour ...

DEBATE BETWEEN OSIRIS AND THE HIGH GOD - Gods ...
www.mircea-eliade.com/from-primitives-to-zen/... - Similar to DEBATE BETWEEN OSIRIS AND THE HIGH GOD - Gods ...
OSIRIS But every other god has his place in the Boat of Millions of Years.... by Day”· Erik Hornung, David Lorton “The Ancient Egyptian Books of the Afterlife”...

Excerpts from The Egyptian Book of the Dead
www.jbeilharz.de/ellis/egypt.html - Similar to Excerpts from The Egyptian Book of the Dead
I chew with my jaw. I am a living god come forth. I am with the earth millions of years. RA RISING. Three lyres. One sun in the east. The image of grace in my two ...
Patriot

Savannah, GA

#106294 Nov 19, 2013
Albert Einstein was correct when he said that space and time are curved.

Albert Einstein and Science are WRONG when they say the "Fastest thing in the universe is the Speed of Light."

The Fastest thing in the Universe is the Speed of Thought.... roll that around in your brain....

Jesus said,:Which one of you by taking thought can change One Hair on your head?"

God and whatever machine he chooses to ride in, if he wants one, can Think himself and his optional machine from one side of the Universe in the blink of an eye, NOT Hundreds of Thousands of Light Years.

Look for him and/or the angels in the skies near you...

The Bible says, "Strange things will be seen in the skies in the End Times."

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#106295 Nov 19, 2013
SBT wrote:
<quoted text>
I appreciate that you took in the video. Studying where I did, there was a whole team of Geologists that worked in the mid-ocean rifts. Chatted w/some about their work. Learned a few things that were also integrated into courses. Brown has alot going for him in his hypothesis here that resonated w/me. Why were the frozen mammoths peppered with meteorite shrapnel for one. I could give you more from the rift zones, alot more.
On turtles, they control their buoyancy and conserve air, totally diff than other reptiles so they would be deposited in upper strata, and they are.
On genetics all agree that things are corrupting not enhancing. Further supports my point, going back = pure gene data and an evo proof Cell/DNA mechanism. So by that if mutations are the rule we should be more broken down in Ayala's "Genetic load". Were are having those issues. The evo genetic experts are simply flooding the media with corn data to hide whats going on, they are going backward's and lose every time someone turns the microscopes up a few more power. Your side has a real problem on the DNA/Cell side and would be annihilated in a public debate anytime, anyday.
Consider "junk" DNA. Consider fold markers, the list goes on and grows nearly every quarter, then someone quickly conjures up a new evolutionary explanation. Then my side picks them apart and your side say's all we do is act like critics and don't do any real science. Partly true because your folks have many more spin masters to keep in check. Partly wrong because our fullltime people came out of research mainly too keep those boys honest, a real chore these days. Least Dean Kenyon, evo hero of the 70"s, was man enough to come clean. That's the truth. To be scientific, you must explain the non-life barrier and you can't.
At uniform erosion rates, all the mountains of earth would be worn flat in <20MY, love it when they get dated old. Why are the Himalayas sea floor? They show little sign of erosion, with that weather a few thousand years should have them rounded off. Check into it.
Dude, two words:

Plate tectonics.

You should not lie about talking to geologists.
Patriot

Savannah, GA

#106296 Nov 19, 2013
Angels have the power to shape shift and assume ANY Form, from bears, to little green men, to the "Grays with the big oval eyes" to anything else imaginable.

Look at the main Gods of Ancient Egypt. Look at the other ancient religions and their strange looking Gods, half man, half bird or beast. These things are called Mythology. I am not so certain.

The Ancient Egyptians spent most of the Gross Domestic Product of Egypt on Religion, Temples, and Statues. If they didn't see anything unusual right in their midst, what do you think drove them to do such a thing?

2 Kings 2:23-24
New International Version (NIV)
Elisha Is Jeered

23 From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some boys came out of the town and jeered at him.“Get out of here, baldy!” they said.“Get out of here, baldy!” 24 He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the Lord. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys.
davy

Albuquerque, NM

#106297 Nov 19, 2013
...and the colored girls sing, doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo...
Patriot wrote:
Albert Einstein was correct when he said that space and time are curved.
Albert Einstein and Science are WRONG when they say the "Fastest thing in the universe is the Speed of Light."
The Fastest thing in the Universe is the Speed of Thought.... roll that around in your brain....
Jesus said,:Which one of you by taking thought can change One Hair on your head?"
God and whatever machine he chooses to ride in, if he wants one, can Think himself and his optional machine from one side of the Universe in the blink of an eye, NOT Hundreds of Thousands of Light Years.
Look for him and/or the angels in the skies near you...
The Bible says, "Strange things will be seen in the skies in the End Times."
Patriot

Savannah, GA

#106298 Nov 19, 2013
Thoughts.....

MATTHEW 6:27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit ...
www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Matthew-6-27/ - Similar to MATTHEW 6:27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit ...
Aug 11, 2013 ... Matthew 6:27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?... from the King James Bible Online (KJV Bible).
Patriot

Savannah, GA

#106299 Nov 19, 2013
Jesus Christ.... Mind Reader and Master of Thoughts

Matthew 12:25 Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them,...
biblehub.com/matthew/12-25.htm - Similar to Matthew 12:25 Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them,...
New Living Translation Jesus knew their thoughts and replied, "Any kingdom divided by civil war is doomed. A town or family splintered by feuding will fall apart.

Luke 5:22 Jesus knew what they were thinking and ...
biblehub.com/luke/5-22.htm - Similar to Luke 5:22 Jesus knew what they were thinking and ...
But perceiving their thoughts, Jesus replied to them, "Why are you thinking this in your hearts? International Standard Version Because Jesus knew that they ...

[ More results from biblehub.com ]
Luke 6:8 But Jesus knew what they were thinking and said to ...
biblehub.com/luke/6-8.htm - Similar to Luke 6:8 But Jesus knew what they were thinking and said to ...
But Jesus knew their thoughts. He said to the man with the deformed hand, " Come and stand in front of everyone." So the man came forward. English Standard ...

Luke 11:17 Jesus knew their thoughts and said to ...
biblehub.com/luke/11-17.htm - Similar to Luke 11:17 Jesus knew their thoughts and said to ...
Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them: "Any kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and a house divided against itself will fall. New Living Translation

“NOTHING GOOD EVERY CAME OUT OF”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

West Plains

#106300 Nov 19, 2013
SBT wrote:
<quoted text>
I appreciate that you took in the video. Studying where I did, there was a whole team of Geologists that worked in the mid-ocean rifts. Chatted w/some about their work. Learned a few things that were also integrated into courses. Brown has alot going for him in his hypothesis here that resonated w/me. Why were the frozen mammoths peppered with meteorite shrapnel for one. I could give you more from the rift zones, alot more.
On turtles, they control their buoyancy and conserve air, totally diff than other reptiles so they would be deposited in upper strata, and they are.
On genetics all agree that things are corrupting not enhancing. Further supports my point, going back = pure gene data and an evo proof Cell/DNA mechanism. So by that if mutations are the rule we should be more broken down in Ayala's "Genetic load". Were are having those issues. The evo genetic experts are simply flooding the media with corn data to hide whats going on, they are going backward's and lose every time someone turns the microscopes up a few more power. Your side has a real problem on the DNA/Cell side and would be annihilated in a public debate anytime, anyday.
Consider "junk" DNA. Consider fold markers, the list goes on and grows nearly every quarter, then someone quickly conjures up a new evolutionary explanation. Then my side picks them apart and your side say's all we do is act like critics and don't do any real science. Partly true because your folks have many more spin masters to keep in check. Partly wrong because our fullltime people came out of research mainly too keep those boys honest, a real chore these days. Least Dean Kenyon, evo hero of the 70"s, was man enough to come clean. That's the truth. To be scientific, you must explain the non-life barrier and you can't.
At uniform erosion rates, all the mountains of earth would be worn flat in <20MY, love it when they get dated old. Why are the Himalayas sea floor? They show little sign of erosion, with that weather a few thousand years should have them rounded off. Check into it.
Why do you think there were mammoths shot full of meteorites in the mid-ocean rifts?

The dead turtles control their buoyancy and conserve air so that the dead turtles can place themselves in the proper strata?

All who or what agree with the notion that something is corrupting? What is corrupting? Is it the dead turtles?

Going back to when? What is pure DNA data? Is there impure DNA data?

The only thing your side ever picked with the remote possibility of success was your noses. I see from above you have a hand in that.

So any question that hasn't been answered means a designer did it. God of the gaps. Nothing new there.

All your side does is write a bunch of gobbledygook that gets refuted and in some cases even before it is published. Then nontechnical drudges like you and MazHere run around trumpeting this misinformation as if it were fact. I don't know whether you all are dishonest or just stupid.

“NOTHING GOOD EVERY CAME OUT OF”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

West Plains

#106301 Nov 19, 2013
davy wrote:
...and the colored girls sing, doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo...
<quoted text>
It was sad to hear of the passing of Lou Reed.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Dubai, UAE

#106303 Nov 19, 2013
SBT wrote:
<quoted text>
I dont see evolution in the fossil record. The fossil record shows one thing truly; in each specific deposit world-wide, huge and varied groups of unrelated animals, aquatic and land, were drowned together in sediments. That is what we actually see and hold in our hands with no exception.
Evo paleontologists pick one bone from here, one from there and line them up in evolutionary fashion holding out evo as the only "scientific" interpretation. Never mention the above. Findings are sorted with a viewpoint in mind and leave out the broader truth. Thats what makes it into the kids science texts.
Take the Karoo, we have vertical fossil exposures thousands of feet thick, do we see evo as we move from bottom to top - No. We go to the Grand Canyon, working up the grand staircase, we see huge evo sections (Ordovician, Silurian), missing. Do we see evolution - no. Do we see sea floor life at the bottom of the GS yes in order of mobility, NOT evolutionary common ancestry sequence. One viewpoint vs another. One says many kinds buried catastrophically, another says each layer represents an eon of evolved life. The creation viewpoint is supported with eyewitnesses. Evo requires important things to be provable. Creation requires reasonable evidence also.
We have DNA and the cell operation squarely on our side. How did the complex and stasis in DNA coding come in the very beginning? We see this from Prokaryote fwd as it has never changed nor evolved. With that outside system controlling all life and the worlds oldest book saying what it says as a witness, is this not reasonable? How can man invalidate this position? How can we standback and allow children not to know these truths?
Ah the old "flowers could run faster than ferns" argument.

Too funny.

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#106304 Nov 20, 2013
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
Boofhead. Is this the best you can do?
Suck it up. You have yet another falsification to add to the that great garbage bin of falsified empirical evidence that goes to further support the basis of all evolutionary prattle...
Simulations show that for most study designs and settings, it is more likely for a research claim to be false than true. Moreover, for many current scientific fields, claimed research findings may often be simply accurate measures of the prevailing bias. In this essay, I discuss the implications of these problems for the conduct and interpretation of research.
http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info:doi/...
Drippychin,(you want to vomit verbal abuse do not be surprised when the favour is returned, I can assure you that I can be considerably more pointed if need be)

It is all I need to do, as well as the facts being obvious, the facts are facts. You are ignoring time, as is usual for a godbot you assume that time relates directly to your personal experience of three score years and ten. That time period is not even a drop in the ocean compared to 400 million years. Science admits to error, usually in the realms of fractions of a percent, a fractions of 400 million is still big number compared to your understanding of life span.

This is of course only one reason why you arguments fail.

I see you have attempted to obfuscate the discussion by throwing in an irrelevant link (another sure sign of a person with little or no argument) I note that the comments section of the link you posted are quite critical of the authors findings and statistical methods as is Wikipedia who stated :-“… found major flaws in Ioannidis's methods, noting that Ioannidis (who did not collaborate with any statisticians on the article) appeared to have confused alpha level with p value and also built the assumption that most findings are likely to be false into his reasoning, thereby making his logic circular.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_P._A._Ioann...

That’s is of course the good christian way to do things, make a decision and then manipulate the data to suite that decision. Unfortunately for such ‘research’(and I use the word in the widest possible sense) methods other researches and readers are not as gullible as you seem to be

Of course when it comes to science, a study design is not a fact, that is the whole concept. Design a study and then evaluate it, if the study is found to be flawed it is discarded, if it is found to be valid then further study is planned and the results built upon.

Or perhaps you would prefer to rely on medicines that are untested or that have failed the tests designed to show their effectiveness and safety? Honey, you stick to your bronze age chanting to your god for forgiveness and witch doctor laying on of hands medicine, me, I’ll choose advanced, designed, scientifically tested and medical board approved medicine any time.

Of course some scientific fields rely on “accurate measures” your term. Again the nature of science is that new evidence may falsify the old. Unlike the babble where new evidence is rejected out of hand, often with verbal abuse and violence in a childish attempt to quell the facts

You are perfectly entitled to your faith but when you use that faith (belief) in a vain attempt to discredit proven fact by offering discredited articles then you are not only abusing the facts you are also lying for and about your god.

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#106305 Nov 20, 2013
Patriot wrote:
Why is it easier for some folks to Believe that a Monkey made a Human Being, than to Believe that God made a Human Being ??
Evolution on a small scale? Yes, everything Adapts to it's environment.
Because some folks are no gullible enough to consider “doh, I dun no wot apened so it mus be god wot did it by magic” to be more than indoctrination of children by the ignorant.

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#106306 Nov 20, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
You might note the Egyptian did not believe in one god except for a very short period of one nutty pharaoh.
Also argued that the nutty pharaoh belief was the source of the Hebrew one god belief and also spawned the son (sun) of god belief

SBT
Level 2

Since: Jun 13

United States

#106307 Nov 20, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>Dude, two words:
Plate tectonics.
You should not lie about talking to geologists.
Good topic, first, I had that post in draft mode, closed my laptop last night and woke up to a post! opened it this am, was still in edit mode. Oh well. See if I can do better today.

As you know, we are sitting along the Ring of Fire in the west. Brown maintains that as our solar systems only planet with a crust, that "all the fountains of the great deep burst forth" meant the deep aquifer's that were part of the first earth hydrological system of springs and mists ripped apart and then pushed the plates in one worldwide event, Pangia to Present. When you look at the well logs from the rifts, you see magnetic reversals in the now lithified magma along defined and consistent lines as you go down to drill limits, like was observed in the Steens scarp face. Think about that. Theres more.

The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#106308 Nov 20, 2013
Patriot wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL, oh yes it is that simple.....
According to the Jews they spent many unhappy years living with the Egyptians, and Moses, who was a Prince of Egypt and raised as an Egyptian wrote the First Five books of the Bible.
If you compare the Ancient Egyptian Book of the Dead with the Holy Bible, you discover that much of the Bible is verse for verse, word for word identical.
Therefore the Bible is false.

After all it shows that God is not the only God and that God is not all powerful. Plus there's the part where Moses allegedly led people OUT of Egyptian controlled territory, across the desert unnoticed by a single Egyptian garrison, and to freedom - back INTO what was known as Egyptian controlled territory at the time.

Either way though the fact remains that Adam and Eve never existed, donkeys and lizards don't talk, and the Earth is not a flat square circle at the center of the universe.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#106309 Nov 20, 2013
Patriot wrote:
Why is it easier for some folks to Believe that a Monkey made a Human Being, than to Believe that God made a Human Being ??
Evolution on a small scale? Yes, everything Adapts to it's environment.
O hai! I see u not yet had an edumacation. Plz to be coming backs when u can has one. Kthxbai!

SBT
Level 2

Since: Jun 13

United States

#106310 Nov 20, 2013
Brown has postulated for many years that when the drills go deep enough, they should hit the original remnant aquifer at 7-10 miles down, in the last several years they have. Another feature along the rifts is the parallel lines of magma "stretch marks". These lines are the seams made at the 6 hour ebb and flow of the lunar cycles acting on the crust as new material was pushed out by the lunar effect that warped the curst.
See Dr. Walt Browns video in the links on this site;

http://www.genesisalive.com/2013/10/the-first...

More on the Aquifer network and Ox16/18 issue;

http://www.genesisalive.com/2013/10/the-first...

The paper cited in the above mentions the ratio of Ox16/18 where scientists are perplexed why its off in early-earth polar samples, different due to how far water makes contact with terrain before being used by flora. More smoking gun evidence that the hydro system was exactly what the Bible records.

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