Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 197267 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#106163 Nov 17, 2013
Thats a knee slapper wrote:
<quoted text>
Depending on what you go by, the dates can vary a little or a lot.
Complex, Multicellular Life from Over Two Billion Years Ago Discovered.
The discovery in Gabon of more than 250 fossils in an excellent state of conservation has provided proof, for the first time, of the existence of multicellular organisms 2.1 billion years ago. This finding represents a major breakthrough: until now, the first complex life forms (made up of several cells) dated from around 600 million years ago.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/06/...
Geologist Analyzes Earliest Shell-Covered Fossil Animals.
The fossil remains of some of the first animals with shells, ocean-dwelling creatures that measure a few centimeters in length and date to about 520 million years ago, provide a window on evolution at this time, according to scientists. Their research indicates that these animals were larger than previously thought.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/...
It is always possible to push the date of earliest further and further back. Nice find by the way.

“Seventh son”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Will Prevail

#106164 Nov 17, 2013
MAAT wrote:
<quoted text>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anomalocaris
huge fossil predator allready dating from the early cambrian.(as in allready part shells from calcium carbonate)
Oxygenation allready occurred 2 billion years ago.
If Iron absorbtion was satiation was allready concluded, we would have a restvolume to make multicellular development possible.
Global cooling throwing a bit of a spanner in the works.
Algae and other dieing microorganisms supplied the calcium carbonate in the start.

http://www.whoi.edu/home/oceanus_images/ries/...

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#106165 Nov 17, 2013
Thanks for the link Aura Mytha.

TAKS had a good source also on
Lots of Oxygen Does Not Necessarily Lead to the Evolution of Advanced Life
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/10/...

and

Great Oxidation Event: More Oxygen Through Multicellularity
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/01/...
Jan. 17, 2013 — The appearance of free oxygen in Earth's atmosphere led to the Great Oxidation Event. This was triggered by cyanobacteria producing oxygen that was used by multicellular forms as early as 2.3 billion years ago. As evolutionary biologists from the Universities of Zurich and Gothenburg have shown, this multicellularity was linked to the rise in oxygen and thus played a significant role for life on Earth as it is today.

Cyanobacteria occupied free niches

The increased production of oxygen set Earth's original atmosphere off balance. Because oxygen was poisonous for large numbers of anaerobic organisms, many anaerobic types of bacteria were eliminated, opening up ecological 'niches'. The researchers have determined the existence of many new types of multicellular cyanobacteria subsequent to the fundamental climatic event, and are deducing that these occupied the newly developed habitats. "Morphological changes in microorganisms such as bacteria were able to impact the environment fundamentally and to an extent scarcely imaginable," concludes Schirrmeister.
---
So it would be about oxygen supporting life and reproduction.
Or supporting the first landbased life.

“Seventh son”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Will Prevail

#106166 Nov 17, 2013
MAAT wrote:
Thanks for the link Aura Mytha.
TAKS had a good source also on
Lots of Oxygen Does Not Necessarily Lead to the Evolution of Advanced Life
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/10/...
and
Great Oxidation Event: More Oxygen Through Multicellularity
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/01/...
Jan. 17, 2013 — The appearance of free oxygen in Earth's atmosphere led to the Great Oxidation Event. This was triggered by cyanobacteria producing oxygen that was used by multicellular forms as early as 2.3 billion years ago. As evolutionary biologists from the Universities of Zurich and Gothenburg have shown, this multicellularity was linked to the rise in oxygen and thus played a significant role for life on Earth as it is today.
Cyanobacteria occupied free niches
The increased production of oxygen set Earth's original atmosphere off balance. Because oxygen was poisonous for large numbers of anaerobic organisms, many anaerobic types of bacteria were eliminated, opening up ecological 'niches'. The researchers have determined the existence of many new types of multicellular cyanobacteria subsequent to the fundamental climatic event, and are deducing that these occupied the newly developed habitats. "Morphological changes in microorganisms such as bacteria were able to impact the environment fundamentally and to an extent scarcely imaginable," concludes Schirrmeister.
---
So it would be about oxygen supporting life and reproduction.
Or supporting the first landbased life.
Yes some life sacrificed itself to develop the life as we know it, at least it appears this way. But recently there is growing evidence that not all Precambrian life actually died, some of it may have evolved.

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#106167 Nov 17, 2013
Proterozoic Mountains and Glaciers
In the Proterozoic Eon, four major mountain-building episodes occurred, each of which was followed by an interval of continental erosion. Mountain-building was caused by converging plates, just as occurs in present-day plate tectonics. It was accompanied by intrusions of molten granite that welded an additional belt of younger, igneous rock around the edges of the original microcontinents. In North America, the Proterozoic episodes of mountain-building greatly expanded the size of the continent.

Widespread continental glaciations evidently occurred at least twice in the Proterozoic, once near its beginning and again near its end. Several of these glaciations extended almost to the equator, much farther south than any recent cooling events. This unusual situation has led a few geologists to propose that the Earth was almost entirely covered by glaciers for perhaps several million years during the Proterozoic. During this “Snowball Earth” phase, life would have been relegated to hydrothermal vents and other such refuges until the build-up of carbon dioxide released from volcanoes warmed Earth from its deep-freeze. The final Marinoan Ice Age marked the transition to the Cambrian, the first period of the Paleozoic Era.

Given the amount of erosion thus and new ignious rock.

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#106168 Nov 17, 2013
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowball_Earth
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oceanic_carbon_c...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3...
Manganese-oxidizing photosynthesis before the rise of cyanobacteria

Jena E. Johnson,a,1 Samuel M. Webb,b Katherine Thomas,c Shuhei Ono,c Joseph L. Kirschvink,a,d and Woodward W. Fischera

http://www.pnas.org/content/97/4/1400.full.pd...
Paleoproterozoic snowball Earth: Extreme climatic
and geochemical global change and its
biological consequences
Joseph L. Kirschvink*†, Eric J. Gaidos‡, L. Elizabeth Bertani§, Nicholas J. Beukes¶, Jens Gutzmer¶, Linda N. Maepa*,
and Rachel E. Steinberger§
*Division of Geological and Planetary Sciences,‡Jet Propulsion Laboratory, and §Division of Biology, California Institute of Technology, Pasadena, CA 91125;
and ¶Department of Geology, Rand Afrikaans University, Auckland Park 2006, Johannesburg, South Africa
Communicated by Paul F. Hoffman, Harvard University, Cambridge, MA, November 8, 1999 (received for review September 8, 1999)

Kirschvink (14) noted that the extreme geochemical environments predicted by a snowball Earth model explain the Neoproterozoic banded iron formations (BIFs). Hoffman et al.(10)
extended the model to account for the deposition and isotopic composition of postglacial cap carbonates. Tsikos and Moore (15) suggested that the glacial deposits and the unique manganese
(Mn) deposits of the Paleoproterozoic Hotazel formation in South Africa may be causally related, but without providing a mechanism. We suggest that a global glaciation followed by a
cyanobacterial bloom provides a simple explanation of the manganese formations and furthermore describes an extraordinary event in the geochemical history of the planet, one with
potentially profound implications for the evolution of life.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#106169 Nov 17, 2013
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
However Creation does predict a limit to adaptation and that is exactly what the data confirms with none presented to support an organisms ability to adapt without such limits.

This is false. Obviously you have never studied science.
davy

Albuquerque, NM

#106170 Nov 17, 2013
Where does it say that in the bible religitard?
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
However Creation does predict a limit to adaptation and that is exactly what the data confirms with none presented to support an organisms ability to adapt without such limits.
davy

Albuquerque, NM

#106171 Nov 17, 2013
Fine, so show us a mathematical equation that supports a talking snake. Einstein never said we were created by aliens you religitarded republicunt. I see you are still telling lies in the name of Jesus.
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
Here is another evo quacker out for his jollies for the day. Go get a life if you're too silly to participte!
Have you ever heard of this....
Einstein's equation, Energy = Mass x the square of the velocity of light, tells you that a huge amount of energy will create matter in this way.
This is how these aliens your researchers keep looking for but refuse to see are able to create and take on form.
Given that energy is neither created nor destroyed you can feel free to explain where the initial energy came from. Until then, you can believe in your ghosts that hold the universe together and the multiple dimensions required.
We can play this game of you silly evos demanding more substantiation than you can ever present for any of your claims. However, you need to understand you still remain a confirmed looser.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#106172 Nov 18, 2013
SBT wrote:
<quoted text>
Its amazing to me how many "experts" we have here who have never held a rock hammer nor taken a day of Geology. A little hint, when you get into the field uniform Geology and evolution is inconsistent at best and makes for a very poor guide to anything but some strata identification.
So what you're saying is that evolution and geology don't work but evolution and geology really do work.

Gotcha.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#106173 Nov 18, 2013
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
However Creation does predict a limit to adaptation and that is exactly what the data confirms with none presented to support an organisms ability to adapt without such limits.
Only if you were able to ascertain the limits of the all-powerful universe-creating creator in an objective manner via the scientific method.

How DID you do that again exactly?

Thought so.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#106174 Nov 18, 2013
Thats a knee slapper wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh I know. I have been dealing with his sunken sub on a few other threads.
Here are some of his best so far;
1. He says “type of dog” instead of breed.
2. He says “laws of entropy” instead of laws of thermodynamics, which entropy falls under.
3. He said E. coli is not a species. When E. coli is the species name. He even provided the link then still denied it.
4. He says E. coli comes in different nationalities,, as in American E. coli and Mexican E. coli
Hey Slaphead, you use creationist arguments against evolution then say you're not a creationist. One thing is for sure though, if you ain't a creo you're still a stupid liar.(shrug)

Come up with your "scientific alternative" yet? Thought not.

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#106175 Nov 18, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Irish Gaelic. I grew up on one of the peninsulae in South-Western Ireland.
The language is still used for daily commerce down there.
Cheers. Must admit, I can’t understand a word of it, having said that I’m only a few miles from Wales and have the same problem there. And even closer to Liverpool and true scouse leaves me shaking my head.

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#106176 Nov 18, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> And that does not change the reality about England' s origination of the English language.
Moving goalposts does not become you.

You originally claimed the English “owned” the English language, it seems you may actually be capable of learning after all.

However the origination of the English language is rather more diverse than England. Many words coming from various languages, mostly across northern Europe but also including languages from as far afield as India and China

I have shown you this several times including links to academic documentation which validate the point and you still seem to ignore those facts.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#106177 Nov 18, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Cheers. Must admit, I can’t understand a word of it, having said that I’m only a few miles from Wales and have the same problem there. And even closer to Liverpool and true scouse leaves me shaking my head.
Some years ago when I lived in Germany, I was leaving Wiesbaden Air Base when I stopped and picked up a guy hitchhiking just outside the main gate. I took him for German - which I spoke - but couldn't understand a damn thing he was saying. I finally realized he was actually English. Though I still had a hell of a time understanding him.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#106178 Nov 18, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Cheers. Must admit, I can’t understand a word of it, having said that I’m only a few miles from Wales and have the same problem there. And even closer to Liverpool and true scouse leaves me shaking my head.
Hehehe.

Yah. Welsh is also a Celtic language - but it's from the Brythonic branch. Irish is from the Goidelic. The two are not mutually comprehensible - although some words are. Especially in place names.

And nobody, other than real Liverpudlians, understands Scouse.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#106179 Nov 18, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Some years ago when I lived in Germany, I was leaving Wiesbaden Air Base when I stopped and picked up a guy hitchhiking just outside the main gate. I took him for German - which I spoke - but couldn't understand a damn thing he was saying. I finally realized he was actually English. Though I still had a hell of a time understanding him.
Laffin again.

"English" isn't a language. It's a spectrum. Even in the US - I've seen a New Englander and a Louisianan having sincere difficulties.

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#106180 Nov 18, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Hehehe.
Yah. Welsh is also a Celtic language - but it's from the Brythonic branch. Irish is from the Goidelic. The two are not mutually comprehensible - although some words are. Especially in place names.
And nobody, other than real Liverpudlians, understands Scouse.
Hi Mac,
Can ea have that in the spectrum oi can understand.
Goilic is not Gealic?
It's like that letter Y that is actually pronounced as TH.
And where does Brythonic originate?
Brththon-briton? Bretagne?

I can't understand Scots, even if they try really hard. It gets embarrasing.
Just happy i can understand Billy Connolly.

SBT
Level 2

Since: Jun 13

United States

#106181 Nov 18, 2013
MAAT wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S nowball_Earth
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oceanic_carbon_c...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3...
Manganese-oxidizing photosynthesis before the rise of cyanobacteria
Jena E. Johnson,a,1 Samuel M. Webb,b Katherine Thomas,c Shuhei Ono,c Joseph L. Kirschvink,a,d and Woodward W. Fischera
http://www.pnas.org/content/97/4/1400.full.pd...
Paleoproterozoic snowball Earth: Extreme climatic
and geochemical global change and its
biological consequences
Joseph L. Kirschvink*†, Eric J. Gaidos‡, L. Elizabeth Bertani§, Nicholas J. Beukes¶, Jens Gutzmer¶, Linda N. Maepa*,
and Rachel E. Steinberger§
*Division of Geological and Planetary Sciences,‡Jet Propulsion Laboratory, and §Division of Biology, California Institute of Technology, Pasadena, CA 91125;
and ¶Department of Geology, Rand Afrikaans University, Auckland Park 2006, Johannesburg, South Africa
Communicated by Paul F. Hoffman, Harvard University, Cambridge, MA, November 8, 1999 (received for review September 8, 1999)
Kirschvink (14) noted that the extreme geochemical environments predicted by a snowball Earth model explain the Neoproterozoic banded iron formations (BIFs). Hoffman et al.(10)
extended the model to account for the deposition and isotopic composition of postglacial cap carbonates. Tsikos and Moore (15) suggested that the glacial deposits and the unique manganese
(Mn) deposits of the Paleoproterozoic Hotazel formation in South Africa may be causally related, but without providing a mechanism. We suggest that a global glaciation followed by a
cyanobacterial bloom provides a simple explanation of the manganese formations and furthermore describes an extraordinary event in the geochemical history of the planet, one with
potentially profound implications for the evolution of life.
But wait, grasshopper have question, please explain how "primordial soup" in reducing atmosphere popped out a Prokaryote bacteria with a 4 million code DNA and an Axial Proton powered motor??? Look at the Prokaryote in Wiki and see, it's true, complex in the beginning, the chemical to life problem has never been repeated in the laboratory, nor solved. Is any science being done here to support this story? Seem you have a huge problem in the "begining".

Isn't this like Moses claiming he spoke to God on Mt. Sinai and came back without the tablets? This wiki story oversimplifies and skips some real problems, no matter how many signed on to it. You must answer the first question otherwise the whole notion is questionable.

http://www.genesisalive.com/2013/09/a-questio...
http://www.genesisalive.com/2013/09/a-questio...

SBT
Level 2

Since: Jun 13

United States

#106182 Nov 18, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
So what you're saying is that evolution and geology don't work but evolution and geology really do work.
Gotcha.
No, fossils are often used to identify a strata as it emerges across a lateral. The books use evo terms attached to evo ages to ident. the strata according to the fossils, which they assume died and piled up over eons. These are actually flood sediment deposits in most cases,(unless deposited in a local catastrophe). Good example are Grand Canyon nautilouds.

I will let Austin explain it relating to a limestone deposit that covers thousand of sq miles -

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