Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 169219 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Australia

#106041 Nov 16, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>And for the umpteenth time you are misinterpreting your own sources.
That is why I offered to discuss them one at a time. No Gish Gallops allowed. You find articles that say there are limits to how fast evolution can occur.
In other words species cannot evolve overnight and you articles give some of the reasons why. They all support evolution.
For the first time, you might like to demonstrate why the research better supports an evo paradigm than a creo one instead of flapping your feathers.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#106042 Nov 16, 2013
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
For the first time, you might like to demonstrate why the research better supports an evo paradigm than a creo one instead of flapping your feathers.
Sure I would be happy to discuss with you how all scientific evidence supports the theory of evolution. What do you want to start with? How about the fossil record? Every fossil to date fits the evolution paradigm. The creationists do not even have one because they know that it would fail. And yet if evolution was wrong we could find fossils "out of sequence". Do you want to bring up your theorpod fossil footprints that look like they might be bird fossil footprints? That seems pretty weak to me.

Go ahead pick your subject. One at a time since I don't want to have to deal with multiple lies of yours simultaneously.

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Australia

#106043 Nov 16, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
And here is an excellent article on whale evolution:
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/arti...
Look at where the nostrils are starting with pakicetus, like we are used to they are at the front of the head. You can see them move back further and further as the species evolve.
Yes, and guess what? They all breathe as well.

The discovery of fossil whale bones in Michigan has been a source of some embarrassment for the conventional geologic story of the history of the Great Lakes region, and the notion that the area has remained above sea level for 290 million years since the end of the Pennsylvanian period, as whale fossils are obviously evidence that the land was submerged beneath the sea.

http://www.sentex.net/~tcc/michwls.html

Now you evos have got something like a deer 'poofing' into something like a whale in 4 million years, instead of 15 million years.

http://www.dna.gov.ar/INGLES/DIVULGAC/ARQUEO....
http://news.nationalgeographic.com.au/news/20...

All that adaptation, so non plausibly fast, despite majority deleterious mutations and negative epistasis of the few so called beneficial mutations that managed to cross the germ line and be selected for in a major sweep; and dated prior to its ancestors. LOL!. Great evidence!

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#106044 Nov 16, 2013
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
Seeing as you can't win the point on limited adaptability, would you like to talk specifically about what evos have on whale evolution and exactly what it demonstrates? It's a favourite of mine.
Let's start with my demonstrating your current knowledge of this great mythical macroevolutionary change.
Did you know that the line up presented in every single biology book in the world is a misrepresentation of the actual tetrapod to whale line? They are representations of the ancestors of the direct line.
Did you know that a modern chevrotain/mouse deer skeleton is basically the same as Indohyus? Did you know a mouse deer dives to escape prey and shows no sign of changing nostrils?
Best of all do you know that basilosaurus has now been dated to 49mya and therefore the fossil evidence actually presents as basilosaurus having 'evolved' before a couple of its ancestors?
That is your fossil evidence for the transition from something like a deer to a modern whale.
Alternatively, Basilosaurus has nothing to do with whales. Whale bones have been found in the Michagan desert in land formation dated to 400my old.
Before I bother to find and post anything I'd like to see if I am going to be talking to another evo that has faith in the prevailing bias to offer and nothing else in his pocket.
How can I not win?

You have to remember that you keep misinterpreting articles. I would like to know what you think they say. Then I will be able to show you what they do say.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#106045 Nov 16, 2013
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, and guess what? They all breathe as well.
The discovery of fossil whale bones in Michigan has been a source of some embarrassment for the conventional geologic story of the history of the Great Lakes region, and the notion that the area has remained above sea level for 290 million years since the end of the Pennsylvanian period, as whale fossils are obviously evidence that the land was submerged beneath the sea.
http://www.sentex.net/~tcc/michwls.html
Now you evos have got something like a deer 'poofing' into something like a whale in 4 million years, instead of 15 million years.
http://www.dna.gov.ar/INGLES/DIVULGAC/ARQUEO....
http://news.nationalgeographic.com.au/news/20...
All that adaptation, so non plausibly fast, despite majority deleterious mutations and negative epistasis of the few so called beneficial mutations that managed to cross the germ line and be selected for in a major sweep; and dated prior to its ancestors. LOL!. Great evidence!
Maz, how did you forget what was perhaps your worst defeat here?

Don't you remember the link that Kong found? The one where they carbon dated the whale bone, not a fossil, that had been found? It was a recent bone that had been placed in the loose sand of that quarry. I wish that I had book marked it.

Faked evidence from a creatard does not hurt the theory of evolution at all.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#106046 Nov 16, 2013
And Maz, I will only pay any attention to your fist link. I told you only one per post. You misunderstand almost every link that you make so I do not want to have to try to simultaneously correct multiple errors on your part.

Level 2

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#106047 Nov 16, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
Accepting and denying research according to the Bible is tantamount to sticking your nose where the sun doesn't shine.
For what is sure to be the thousandth time, Homo Sapiens ARE apes, not WERE apes, and no one can or has stated as a certainty precisely where life came from - except your lot, who takes mythology as real and pounces to condemn thoughtful pondering as scientific statements and declarations.
Bear false witness, much? Yep - you surely do.
no we are not apes, well, I'm not. you....

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#106048 Nov 16, 2013
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
no we are not apes, well, I'm not. you....
Repeating a lie does not make it true. You are an ape, whether you like it or not.

SBT
Level 2

Since: Jun 13

United States

#106049 Nov 16, 2013
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
Isn't it great that evos can't explain anything with certainty and yet demand a higher level of substatiation from a creationist that an evolutionist can't present themselves.
Immunity is yet another irreducibly complex system that must have created itself in expectation of an organism becoming infected by another organism yet to evolve, according to evos. Mmmm!
You know they have nothing when we get the "wrong links", "confused" and "off topic" deflection tactic. I only ask simple questions that even I can understand..Like a Stator and Rotor in a flagella proton powered axial motor, or 7 or...That each stator has a cavitation torque feedback circuit to a controller, a controller that can then feed the right amount of protons or sodium ions in digital steps to keep the little guy happy, simple evo stuff like that...

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#106050 Nov 16, 2013
SBT wrote:
<quoted text>
You know they have nothing when we get the "wrong links", "confused" and "off topic" deflection tactic. I only ask simple questions that even I can understand..Like a Stator and Rotor in a flagella proton powered axial motor, or 7 or...That each stator has a cavitation torque feedback circuit to a controller, a controller that can then feed the right amount of protons or sodium ions in digital steps to keep the little guy happy, simple evo stuff like that...
You complete and utter moron. For a while Maz was posting links that went to nowhere. If you had checked her work you would have seen it for yourself. It is not possible to comment on someone's link if it is a nonworking one.

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Australia

#106051 Nov 16, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
And Maz, I will only pay any attention to your fist link. I told you only one per post. You misunderstand almost every link that you make so I do not want to have to try to simultaneously correct multiple errors on your part.
Too bad your faith forces you to make such simplistic claims and yet you are too stupid to explain anything.

Evo Parrot!

The same goes for all your hubris about the myth of whale evolution.

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Australia

#106052 Nov 16, 2013
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
no we are not apes, well, I'm not. you....
Even evo scientists are too stupid to be able to define a human being, when a creo easily can. That is what faith in the obviously impossible must do to ones mind.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#106053 Nov 16, 2013
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
Too bad your faith forces you to make such simplistic claims and yet you are too stupid to explain anything.
Evo Parrot!
The same goes for all your hubris about the myth of whale evolution.
I am not a parrot, you nasty waffle flapper.

My beliefs are of course not faith based. They are based on claims that can be tested scientifically. I am simply not allowing you to make too many lies in a single post. The Gish Gallop is a creatard debating technique where many lies are said in a short period of time. Many lies can be said in a short time. It takes quite a while to show that all of those lies are wrong.

I am not playing your creatard games, but I will try to help you.

“Rising”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Milky Way

#106054 Nov 16, 2013
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, and guess what? They all breathe as well.
The discovery of fossil whale bones in Michigan has been a source of some embarrassment for the conventional geologic story of the history of the Great Lakes region, and the notion that the area has remained above sea level for 290 million years since the end of the Pennsylvanian period, as whale fossils are obviously evidence that the land was submerged beneath the sea.
http://www.sentex.net/~tcc/michwls.html
Now you evos have got something like a deer 'poofing' into something like a whale in 4 million years, instead of 15 million years.
http://www.dna.gov.ar/INGLES/DIVULGAC/ARQUEO....
http://news.nationalgeographic.com.au/news/20...
All that adaptation, so non plausibly fast, despite majority deleterious mutations and negative epistasis of the few so called beneficial mutations that managed to cross the germ line and be selected for in a major sweep; and dated prior to its ancestors. LOL!. Great evidence!
It's more like 5 million, but are you seriously calling 5 million, or for that matter 4 million years a shoryt period of time?

In comparison humans have existed 1/20th of 4 million years and
1/25th of five, in that space of time the human skeleton has changed a good bit, from cromagnon or homo sapiens to
homo sapiens sapiens. In 4 million more years we may look like the greys.

SBT
Level 2

Since: Jun 13

United States

#106055 Nov 16, 2013
MAAT wrote:
<quoted text>
Internal monologue spilling over.
And a promotional video for the Stolen Scriptures.
There are a disproportionate number of engineers on topic.
Haven't you got some project to sell in Vietman, or China?
What I am saying is that in the flagella motor and gearing in MO-1, God just spoke to us all, He is an engineer and just crossed biological line's and got into the fields of clear and fast mechanical and electrical engineering, and again, schooled everyone. Backing that logic into your biological world, that make's evolution the sneaky pirate who claims he did it all. So who do we believe? Can't ask Dean Kenyon, every evo's hero now turned. Who do you go to now, the microscopes are bigger and Kenyon is vindicated. Who is your new hero?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#106056 Nov 16, 2013
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
Even evo scientists are too stupid to be able to define a human being, when a creo easily can. That is what faith in the obviously impossible must do to ones mind.
Another obvious lie.

We can "define a human being". We can define what a chimpanzee is. We can define what a gray whale is. You do not like the fact that humans, chimps and gorillas are all apes.

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Australia

#106057 Nov 16, 2013
SBT wrote:
<quoted text>
You know they have nothing when we get the "wrong links", "confused" and "off topic" deflection tactic. I only ask simple questions that even I can understand..Like a Stator and Rotor in a flagella proton powered axial motor, or 7 or...That each stator has a cavitation torque feedback circuit to a controller, a controller that can then feed the right amount of protons or sodium ions in digital steps to keep the little guy happy, simple evo stuff like that...
Evo ignorance, reasonings based on strolls down the garden path to evasion and the absurdum about majority rule, are all that evos have left. Evos can't understand anything simple let alone complicated.

A living organism is a complex factory of reproduction and entropy. Evolutionists base their claims on faith that is more non plausible than belief in a non corporeal alien form of life, God. But they have no trouble believing in dark energy and multiple dimensions. Go figure!

I am interested to hear if Subby, after all his wing flapping about whales, can even accept that every biology book and depiction of whale evolution in the world, is a misrepresentation. None state the glossy pictures are actually supposed decendants of the line whose dating makes the entire myth ridiculous. OR Will we see yet another evo that has opened his big hero mouth and then go running for the hills when exposed.

“Rising”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Milky Way

#106058 Nov 16, 2013
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
Even evo scientists are too stupid to be able to define a human being, when a creo easily can. That is what faith in the obviously impossible must do to ones mind.
Same as the chimp we are ...hominini you can look that one up if you like.

SBT
Level 2

Since: Jun 13

United States

#106059 Nov 16, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>Your personal belief, no matter how sincere is not a basis to refute science.
Discovering that high risk occupations can lead to death faster than posting on Topix is also not a basis to preclude the entire body of scientific research, evidence and insight.
It is understandable that your personal experiences and education have lead you to look for answers, but you are using your gut and not your intellect to draw conclusions.
He asked a why "believe" question, I answered it right out of my gut. You seem to be suggesting my faith in God blurs my understanding of science, wrong. I found that the media and public school system were in lock step preventing a pile of controverting fact's from getting to my ears and eyes. I had been brainwashed, simple as that.

When I was young there was still a large group that held that Operation Science and Origin Science were independent fields. Now that they are blurred whats happened? People that find or support anything contrary to the dogma are "expelled". Wow, mixing those did us well. Example - the research controverting 'Dark Matter' had to come out of Peru and little items like MO-1 from Japan. I don't need an evo filter between me and truth, they tried that game on me in college geo class. Their world unraveled.

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Australia

#106060 Nov 16, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Another obvious lie.
We can "define a human being". We can define what a chimpanzee is. We can define what a gray whale is. You do not like the fact that humans, chimps and gorillas are all apes.
Ok but first lets set the scene. You have not presented any research that demonstrates an organism can adapt without limit. You challenged me on whales, flopped out and now want a definition of 'human being'.

Here is it...

A human being is a placental mammal that is also a furless obligate biped that is genetically capable of sophisticated language, higher reasoning ability and abstract thought as well as expressing the Neu5Ac molecule. No other organism or ape fits that definition.

How about you give us a demo of how an evo defines a human? Will your reply be better than "'DER', let's talk about something else"!

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