Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Australia

#105904 Nov 15, 2013
MAAT wrote:
Full text
http://faculty.ucr.edu/~gupy/Publications/Nat...
Darwin’s bridge between microevolution
and macroevolution
David N. Reznick1 & Robert E. Ricklefs2
2009
[...]
According to Darwin, this combination of replacement and divergence causes cladogenesis: the splitting of one ancestral species into etc etc etc
more than one descendant. Box 1 | A brief survey of macroevolution
838
INSIGHT REVIEW NATURE|Vol 457|12 February 2009
© 2009
What was all that long post, mostly deleted, meant to mean to me in relation to any claim I made. Nothing.

Darwin was simplistic and Mendellian inheritance most certainly isn't the only form of inheritance. The article was only meant to demonstrate that your lab misrepresentations are not a demo of change above species level.

All research demonstrates the genome is not designed to adapt without limits. From majority deleterious mutations to so called benificial mutations coming together to cause negative epistasis. None of the data, even from flawed and biased assumptive modelling, supports an organisms ability to adapt for billions of years without extinction.

Your researchers keep getting unexpected surprises and having to invent any story/maybe to handwave away clear evidence for a creative paradigm.

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#105905 Nov 15, 2013
JM_Brazil wrote:
<quoted text>
It's a little-known fact that French continues to be the official second language in the US. All official documents must be available in both languages. US Passports are still written in English and French.
I did not know that.

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#105906 Nov 15, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Yah.
Charles doesn't even speak French, apparently, and his grasp on English is iffy, too.
As an aside, English is my second language.
My French is a lot iffy but it appears to be better than chuckes English

What is your first language? French? Irish (real Gaelic Irish, not the Irish accented English) or are you going to keep me guessing?

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#105907 Nov 15, 2013
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
What was all that long post, mostly deleted, meant to mean to me in relation to any claim I made. Nothing.
Darwin was simplistic and Mendellian inheritance most certainly isn't the only form of inheritance. The article was only meant to demonstrate that your lab misrepresentations are not a demo of change above species level.
All research demonstrates the genome is not designed to adapt without limits. From majority deleterious mutations to so called benificial mutations coming together to cause negative epistasis. None of the data, even from flawed and biased assumptive modelling, supports an organisms ability to adapt for billions of years without extinction.
Your researchers keep getting unexpected surprises and having to invent any story/maybe to handwave away clear evidence for a creative paradigm.
A organism does not change into another type organism.
Some of the offspring of an organism can possibly mutate into another species.

http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/Bio...

“ROCK ON ROCKERS!!”

Level 8

Since: Mar 11

Rockin' USA ;)

#105908 Nov 15, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
My French is a lot iffy but it appears to be better than chuckes English
What is your first language? French? Irish (real Gaelic Irish, not the Irish accented English) or are you going to keep me guessing?
I f I tell ya..The ALIENS will have to leave their Cushy HOME SWEET HOME on the Dark Side of the Moon..Enough Said...

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#105909 Nov 15, 2013
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
What was all that long post, mostly deleted, meant to mean to me in relation to any claim I made. Nothing.
Darwin was simplistic and Mendellian inheritance most certainly isn't the only form of inheritance. The article was only meant to demonstrate that your lab misrepresentations are not a demo of change above species level.
All research demonstrates the genome is not designed to adapt without limits. From majority deleterious mutations to so called benificial mutations coming together to cause negative epistasis. None of the data, even from flawed and biased assumptive modelling, supports an organisms ability to adapt for billions of years without extinction.
Your researchers keep getting unexpected surprises and having to invent any story/maybe to handwave away clear evidence for a creative paradigm.
You know Maz, that is sort of strange. You would think that if that were the case there would the thousands of biologists that had some doubt about evolution. Or, at the very least, there should be a research article that agrees with you about the limits of evolution. Instead all we see is that all of the evidence agrees with evolution, even in the many articles that you link, but sadly do not understand.

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Australia

#105910 Nov 15, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
A organism does not change into another type organism.
Some of the offspring of an organism can possibly mutate into another species.
http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/Bio...
I never said you evos suggest an organism changes into another organism. Is inventing your own hubris to argue with, the latest evo ploy? By evolutionists own stupidity the variation within the human population and dog breeds could meet the criteria for different species. They came up with 'breed' and 'race' so they don't look so stupid.

Stop trying to look as if you know what you are talking about. You post rubbish.

This is the point I have taken whilst you and other evos keep spewing rubbish back to me.

All research demonstrates the genome is not designed to adapt without limits. From majority deleterious mutations to so called beneficial mutations coming together to cause negative epistasis. None of the data, even from flawed and biased assumptive modelling, supports an organisms ability to adapt for billions of years without extinction.

I told you I have taken the point. Your asiding with every bit of nonsense you can come up with is a further demonstration that evolutionists are unable to support their claims.

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Australia

#105911 Nov 15, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
You know Maz, that is sort of strange. You would think that if that were the case there would the thousands of biologists that had some doubt about evolution. Or, at the very least, there should be a research article that agrees with you about the limits of evolution. Instead all we see is that all of the evidence agrees with evolution, even in the many articles that you link, but sadly do not understand.
What you see is scientists taking data and offering an assumption as a get out of a falsfication for free card.

That is why using your own evo research to slap you with is such fun. It is all flawed and biased rubbish and testimony to the prevailing bias. You lot throw tantrums when creationist research is posted. Evos continual begging the majority is like you burying your head in the sand. The only thing 'ALL' your scientists agree on is "IT ALL EVOLVED", which is no better than "GOD DID IT".

The 'majority' of scientists have been wrong many times. eg human knuckle walking ancestry, single celled LUCA, junk dna.

The point being this...

All research demonstrates the genome is not designed to adapt without limits. From majority deleterious mutations to so called beneficial mutations coming together to cause negative epistasis. None of the data, even from flawed and biased assumptive modelling, supports an organisms ability to adapt for billions of years without extinction.

I told you I have taken the point. Your asiding with every bit of nonsense you can come up with, like Aura, is a further demonstration that evolutionists are unable to support their zillions of claims that support the overarching theory of evolution, point by point.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#105912 Nov 15, 2013
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
I never said you evos suggest an organism changes into another organism. Is inventing your own hubris to argue with, the latest evo ploy? By evolutionists own stupidity the variation within the human population and dog breeds could meet the criteria for different species. They came up with 'breed' and 'race' so they don't look so stupid.
Stop trying to look as if you know what you are talking about. You post rubbish.
This is the point I have taken whilst you and other evos keep spewing rubbish back to me.
All research demonstrates the genome is not designed to adapt without limits. From majority deleterious mutations to so called beneficial mutations coming together to cause negative epistasis. None of the data, even from flawed and biased assumptive modelling, supports an organisms ability to adapt for billions of years without extinction.
I told you I have taken the point. Your asiding with every bit of nonsense you can come up with is a further demonstration that evolutionists are unable to support their claims.
You're either a poe or a blithering idiot. A population has to be separated for a very long time for speciation to occur. This has happened with dogs , as they are a subspecies of the wolf. Races would have gone further if contact and interbreeding between them had not happened.

"All research demonstrates the genome is not designed to adapt without limits."

You are looking at a ruler, and not the tape measure.
You also seem to be incapable of the conception of the deep time
scales needed to understand evolution. Th isolation of a branch on the tree of life is necessary for total speciation to occur.
Now since you don't think massive mutation can take place, changing a species into another. Try to explain Homo floresiensis.

Your inability to understand something is well...your inability.
It isn't evolution that is wrong, it YOU that's wrong.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/change/deep...

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#105913 Nov 15, 2013
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
What you see is scientists taking data and offering an assumption as a get out of a falsfication for free card.
That is why using your own evo research to slap you with is such fun. It is all flawed and biased rubbish and testimony to the prevailing bias. You lot throw tantrums when creationist research is posted. Evos continual begging the majority is like you burying your head in the sand. The only thing 'ALL' your scientists agree on is "IT ALL EVOLVED", which is no better than "GOD DID IT".
The 'majority' of scientists have been wrong many times. eg human knuckle walking ancestry, single celled LUCA, junk dna.
The point being this...
All research demonstrates the genome is not designed to adapt without limits. From majority deleterious mutations to so called beneficial mutations coming together to cause negative epistasis. None of the data, even from flawed and biased assumptive modelling, supports an organisms ability to adapt for billions of years without extinction.
I told you I have taken the point. Your asiding with every bit of nonsense you can come up with, like Aura, is a further demonstration that evolutionists are unable to support their zillions of claims that support the overarching theory of evolution, point by point.

You really are a self-licking ice cream cone ...aren't you?
You see it not just SZ and I...it's all the schools, all the educated people, half the Christians (the educated ones)
all of science, a large part of religion , all the data and SZ and I who realized evolution was a fact.

And then we have a splinter group of science denying
uneducated quasi-scientific, fruit loop fundytarded hillbilly, self licking ice-cream cone heads , that behave like a bunch of preschoolers throwing a tantrum because they no like the fact they're f-king apes. But proving they are by their idiotic responses to the fact.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-uo6b31E2Rkc/UJNYf2d...

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Australia

#105914 Nov 15, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
You really are a self-licking ice cream cone ...aren't you?
You see it not just SZ and I...it's all the schools, all the educated people, half the Christians (the educated ones)
all of science, a large part of religion , all the data and SZ and I who realized evolution was a fact.
And then we have a splinter group of science denying
uneducated quasi-scientific, fruit loop fundytarded hillbilly, self licking ice-cream cone heads , that behave like a bunch of preschoolers throwing a tantrum because they no like the fact they're f-king apes. But proving they are by their idiotic responses to the fact.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-uo6b31E2Rkc/UJNYf2d...
Oh so the great evolutionist is a clown that can post links to funnies and ridicule. The picture looks more like you sucking ice cream instead of talking science. Child! You say stupid things and when exposed then lean on spam. Top marks for revealing your credentials.

None of the results your research has presented aligns with evolutionary predictions. Both paradigms beg some predictions and expectations. Restictions within the genomes adaptive ability would be a self evident support from and creationist perspective, but not for an evolutionary paradigm. The very same data/results forces evolutionists to invent hypothesis/stories to explain the unexpected, DATA.

Self repair systems, majority deleterious mutations, huge odds against major sweeps with so called 'beneficial' mutations resulting in negative epistasis, differences in molecular machinery between man and ape, families of organisms suddenly appearing in the fossil record, is all very much what I would expect to find within the genome and fossil record, as science advances. Not so, for these evo scientists.

This data is all consistent with and supportive of a creationist paradigm and predictive capability and get evo researchers scratching around for excuses and stories to prop up TOE.

So keep sucking ice cream and posting spam because we creos understand that is pretty well all you have left to offer when all scientific data lets you down.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#105915 Nov 15, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
My French is a lot iffy but it appears to be better than chuckes English
What is your first language? French? Irish (real Gaelic Irish, not the Irish accented English) or are you going to keep me guessing?
Irish Gaelic. I grew up on one of the peninsulae in South-Western Ireland.

The language is still used for daily commerce down there.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#105916 Nov 15, 2013
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
What was all that long post, mostly deleted, meant to mean to me in relation to any claim I made. Nothing.
That's because no posts we make at all are relevant to you. Evidence is quite simply irrelevant to your position, period.
MazHere wrote:
Darwin was simplistic and Mendellian inheritance most certainly isn't the only form of inheritance. The article was only meant to demonstrate that your lab misrepresentations are not a demo of change above species level.
All research demonstrates the genome is not designed to adapt without limits. From majority deleterious mutations to so called benificial mutations coming together to cause negative epistasis. None of the data, even from flawed and biased assumptive modelling, supports an organisms ability to adapt for billions of years without extinction.
Your researchers keep getting unexpected surprises and having to invent any story/maybe to handwave away clear evidence for a creative paradigm.
Yeah, "clear" evidence that you can't even provide. But since evidence doesn't matter then that explains why. You can't accept that, but it is quite clear you already know this to be the case. Why else would you keep making the same stupid mistake over and over again for days on end?(shrug)
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#105917 Nov 15, 2013
MazHere wrote:
Stop trying to look as if you know what you are talking about. You post rubbish.
BONG!!!

Yep, that WAS you breaking a new irony meter.
MazHere wrote:
All research demonstrates the genome is not designed to adapt without limits.
Since this has already been addressed your baseless objections are as moot as your pointless religious opinions.(shrug)
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#105918 Nov 15, 2013
MazHere wrote:
What you see is scientists taking data and offering an assumption as a get out of a falsfication for free card.
That is why using your own evo research to slap you with is such fun. It is all flawed and biased rubbish and testimony to the prevailing bias. You lot throw tantrums when creationist research is posted. Evos continual begging the majority is like you burying your head in the sand. The only thing 'ALL' your scientists agree on is "IT ALL EVOLVED", which is no better than "GOD DID IT".
Just one slight problem with your claims - okay quite a few actually: we have evidence and mechanisms, you have zip. Our position is scientific, yours ain't. We don't have to lie, you do.

But hey, as a good Christian martyr you LOVE to be slapped around every day and we're happy to do it.(shrug)
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#105919 Nov 15, 2013
MazHere wrote:
None of the results your research has presented aligns with evolutionary predictions.
Come up with something better than SIFTER and we'll talk. Until then you will only talk crap.(shrug)

Have you uh, come up with a way to make creationism scientific yet? Thought not.

Since: Nov 13

Maple, Canada

#105920 Nov 15, 2013
I believe evolution is the "tool" that God uses to carry out his creation work.

I would go indepth but I have my reasons of believing in God, I personally think life would be pointless without his existence.

If you like my opinions please follow me on http://www.opinionoto.com/JordN

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#105921 Nov 15, 2013
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
What you see is scientists taking data and offering an assumption as a get out of a falsfication for free card.
That is why using your own evo research to slap you with is such fun. It is all flawed and biased rubbish and testimony to the prevailing bias. You lot throw tantrums when creationist research is posted. Evos continual begging the majority is like you burying your head in the sand. The only thing 'ALL' your scientists agree on is "IT ALL EVOLVED", which is no better than "GOD DID IT".
The 'majority' of scientists have been wrong many times. eg human knuckle walking ancestry, single celled LUCA, junk dna.
The point being this...
All research demonstrates the genome is not designed to adapt without limits. From majority deleterious mutations to so called beneficial mutations coming together to cause negative epistasis. None of the data, even from flawed and biased assumptive modelling, supports an organisms ability to adapt for billions of years without extinction.
I told you I have taken the point. Your asiding with every bit of nonsense you can come up with, like Aura, is a further demonstration that evolutionists are unable to support their zillions of claims that support the overarching theory of evolution, point by point.
Once again, no research supports your claims if it did you would be able to link it to this site. All you can do is to link articles that you do not understand.

Now try to think logically for a minute or two, who usually best knows the implications of their own research? Usually it is the researcher himself. Why do none of the researches that you ever link, from credible sources, say that they have found a problem with the theory of evolution.

Now let's look how scientific theories work. Once a hypothesis is well tested and found to have passed its tests by several independent scientists it is considered a theory. Theories are accepted as being conditionally true at this point. In other words they are considered true until somebody finds some serious evidence that they are wrong. The theory of evolution has been tested over 150 years and has never failed one major test. Scientists are very sure that it is mostly correct. Almost all theories can use some tweaking hear and there, so the fact that it is not quite perfect in no way debunks the theory. When a theory lasts as long as the ToE we can be very very sure that it is "right".

Now let's look at creation "science". We do not need to know how creation occurred to show that it happened. Just as we don't need to know all of the details of evolution to know that it happened. If creation happened someone should be able to come up with a theory explaining why we observe what we observe. Why do we see the fossil record the way that we see it? Why do we see nested hierarchies everywhere? It is up to the people who believe in an idea to come up with a hypothesis for their beliefs. To be a scientific hypothesis it must be testable. Creation "scientists" will not even develop a simple testable hypothesis. And you know the reason why. When they have done so in the past their ideas have been debunked in record time.

So if you want to debunk evolution you are going to have to try a lot harder than you have been. People trying to explain how evolution occurred are usually very very bad sources when you are trying to debunk their beliefs.

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Australia

#105922 Nov 15, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Just one slight problem with your claims - okay quite a few actually: we have evidence and mechanisms, you have zip. Our position is scientific, yours ain't. We don't have to lie, you do.
But hey, as a good Christian martyr you LOVE to be slapped around every day and we're happy to do it.(shrug)
Too bad for you my claims actually reflect and are based on factual information I can present as opposed to you evolutionist turned to offering spamdung in your defence. LOL!

You lot have 150 years of spam and wasted paper in libraries.

I have your own data to slap you with.

Majority deleterious mutations, self repair systems, negative epistasis, huge differences in the Y chromosome even after hammering fragments of sequence together, molecular difference between man and ape, functioning dna with no useless dna, functioning organs with no functionless organs, families of organisms suddenly appearing in the fossil record, evidence animal life started in the sea; all supports creationists expectations and continues to validate creationists predictions. Evos then need to invent stories to explain the unexpected and unpredicted.

You and the best here cannot even present a decent argument to challenge the above claims, let alone falisfy any claim I have made. I have data and have presented much of it.

You have volumes of rubbish, 150 years of falsifications and wasted paper. So far you have presented zip from the flavour of the month support for the prevailing bias, you call evolutionary science.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#105923 Nov 15, 2013
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>

None of the results your research has presented aligns with evolutionary predictions. Both paradigms beg some predictions and expectations. Restictions within the genomes adaptive ability would be a self evident support from and creationist perspective, but not for an evolutionary paradigm..
Okay I'll give you a chance, explain how the modern whales came to be from a creationist hypothesis, and why there are an abundance of intermediate species between ancient land mammals and the whale over millions of years. Why would we think we see a morphology taking place when it isn't. Explain how this is creation and not evolution.

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