Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 199563 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

davy

Albuquerque, NM

#105751 Nov 12, 2013
Where is the data that supports the paradigm of the talking snake?
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
So here we are today and the best you and the other evos here can do is beg sciences correcting mechanism. IOW, you are telling me that you cannot present any research that demonstrates the genomes ability to adapt endlessly and without limit while I can present plenty of research data that supports the opposite claim.
Well Subby that's just great Subby because despite your ridicule of our documented account, as far as SCIENCE goes you cannot scientifically refute my claim. The best you can do is beg your disbelief in the first documented account of life arising in the sea because you cannot refute the claim that the genomes ability to adapt is limited. That's great and you don't realize how great that is for us, like it or not.
The claim that the genome cannot possibly be billions of years old is a testable hypothesis that can be supported and falsified, and you evos cannot speak to it. GREAT! That's what I like to see, Subby. However as far as science goes, you're excuses are not acceptable.
This below is the testable claim using genomics that suggests life on earth cannot possibly be billions of years old.
Simulations show that for most study designs and settings, it is more likely for a research claim to be false than true. Moreover, for many current scientific fields, claimed research findings may often be simply accurate measures of the prevailing bias. In this essay, I discuss the implications of these problems for the conduct and interpretation of research.
http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info:doi/ ...
Some genetic phenomena originate as mutations that are initially advantageous but decline in fitness until they become distinctly deleterious. Here I give the condition for a mutation–selection balance to form and describe some of the properties of the resulting equilibrium population. A characterization is also given of the fixation probabilities for such mutations.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3 ...
As a result, the human race is genetically mutating, according to Japanese geneticist Yusaku Nakabeppu of Kyushu University and his team, who released their findings Monday in the trade journal Genome Research.
http://www.naturalnews.com/021220_genetic_mod ...
These data support models in which negative epistasis contributes to declining rates of adaptation over time.
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/332/6034/11 ...
In other words, random detrimental mutations build up in the gene pools of living things with a low reproductive rate far far faster than natural selection can get rid of them. This generally accepted fact of modern science strongly implies, therefore, that we have devolved, not evolved, from an originally superior state, as a species or collective gene pool, compared to our current rapidly degenerating condition
http://www.educatetruth.com/featured/dr-john -...
Life is devolving as per a documented account. Life must be much younger than the evolutionary model suggests. Evolutionary scientists can only offer complicated hypothesis as to why all data supports a creationist paradigm and gives evolutionists headaches.

SBT
Level 2

Since: Jun 13

United States

#105752 Nov 12, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
My oh my, you are quite the moron today. Very few bones become fossils. For land based animals it is incredibly small, less that one out of a million on average. Perhaps even less than one out of a billion.
I see, I show documented evidence of a massive fossil deposit like the Karoo, then you make the comment- "only one in a million or billion", are found? and "Very few bones become fossils"? We need to take you back in front of an audience. There are other pics of the Karoo, you are ignoring direct evidence that falsifies your comments weather you like the links or not. That's why they have juries.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#105753 Nov 12, 2013
SBT wrote:
<quoted text>
I see, I show documented evidence of a massive fossil deposit like the Karoo, then you make the comment- "only one in a million or billion", are found? and "Very few bones become fossils"? We need to take you back in front of an audience. There are other pics of the Karoo, you are ignoring direct evidence that falsifies your comments weather you like the links or not. That's why they have juries.
I did not read your Karoo article since it was from a dishonest source. At any rate it does not matter. It is only a very very very small corner of the world. My statement still stands.

Perhaps if you could find an article about Karoo from an honest source I would read it.

SBT
Level 2

Since: Jun 13

United States

#105754 Nov 12, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Very well then! Via what mechanism?
And did the Almighty make a fossil with feathers and three middle-ear bones?
Via the mechanism we can now see working. The same where we see no possibility of accidents to explain cell operation and DNA origin, simply because evolution says we should. You folks act like we are still in the 19th century attached to the notion spontaneous generation. We are not, we are in the 21st century and the microscopes have proved the old all wrong. You contrive more and more elaborate stories, deny complexity and design to the point where you have lost all touch with reality. As for the fossil you mention, feathers, perching feet and hollow bones come from birds, now found in soft tissue.


http://www.youtube.com/watch...
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Soft tissue archyx
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18882-s...

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#105755 Nov 12, 2013
But just for fun let's look at the numbers of the Karoo.

The Karoo has been a depositional environment for the last 250 million years. It is according to SBT 200,000 square miles in extent. It may have 800 billion vertebrate fossils in it. That sounds like quite a few, but let's churn through the numbers.

Take 800 billion and divide it by 250 million and 200,000 and we get 0.016 animal preserved per square mile per year. Now that is a rather high rate. For one fossil a year you would need 62.5 square miles.

Any guesses on how many vertebrate animals live on 62.5 square miles? From mouse size on up? Does anyone think that it would not be in the millions?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#105756 Nov 12, 2013
SBT wrote:
<quoted text>
Via the mechanism we can now see working. The same where we see no possibility of accidents to explain cell operation and DNA origin, simply because evolution says we should. You folks act like we are still in the 19th century attached to the notion spontaneous generation. We are not, we are in the 21st century and the microscopes have proved the old all wrong. You contrive more and more elaborate stories, deny complexity and design to the point where you have lost all touch with reality. As for the fossil you mention, feathers, perching feet and hollow bones come from birds, now found in soft tissue.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =tLfeDjjio8kXX
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
Soft tissue archyx
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18882-s...
Check out your last article again, it does not say they found soft tissue in the archeopteryx fossil.

SBT
Level 2

Since: Jun 13

United States

#105757 Nov 12, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm sorry but this contradicts the Bible.
But thanks once again for telling us all that you don't give a crap about science.(shrug)
So you would be quite happy with a half done clotting system? Tell God to take yours back or thank Him for it is my point. God made us and said it was all "Very Good", and that we are "fearfully and wonderfully made". I don't see any biblical contradiction. Half the posters on this site think they came from nothing yet enjoy the health and protections God incorporated into our bodies, the design of senses and emotions, ability to laugh and love yet mock their maker yet fail to make a single hair on their heads - brilliant.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#105758 Nov 12, 2013
SBT wrote:
<quoted text>
Via the mechanism we can now see working. The same where we see no possibility of accidents to explain cell operation and DNA origin, simply because evolution says we should.
Strawman.
SBT wrote:
<quoted text>
You folks act like we are still in the 19th century attached to the notion spontaneous generation.
Ummm...no. More like the 16th century.
SBT wrote:
<quoted text>
We are not, we are in the 21st century and the microscopes have proved the old all wrong.
Microscopes were not invented in the 16th century, and in the 21st century it has only proved the ToE correct.
SBT wrote:
<quoted text>
You contrive more and more elaborate stories, deny complexity and design
...which NOBODY has yet been able to quantify, describe and prescribe authorship to....
SBT wrote:
<quoted text> to the point where you have lost all touch with reality.
Reality?

Think about it, SBT.

YOU guys have no grasp of it whatsoever.

Hence the term "SUPERNATURAL".
SBT wrote:
<quoted text>
As for the fossil you mention, feathers, perching feet and hollow bones come from birds, now found in soft tissue.
Lie.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#105759 Nov 12, 2013
SBT wrote:
<quoted text>
So you would be quite happy with a half done clotting system? Tell God to take yours back or thank Him for it is my point. God made us and said it was all "Very Good", and that we are "fearfully and wonderfully made". I don't see any biblical contradiction. Half the posters on this site think they came from nothing yet enjoy the health and protections God incorporated into our bodies, the design of senses and emotions, ability to laugh and love yet mock their maker yet fail to make a single hair on their heads - brilliant.
You do not understand. The blood clotting system evolved along as animals evolved. Simpler animals have blood clotting systems that work well enough for them.

Again you did not read the material provided to you debunking Behe's idiocy. You should really ask yourself why he is a laughing stock in the scientific community today. The only respect that he gets is from creatards.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#105760 Nov 12, 2013
Part I of a debate featuring Michael Behe. Behe has pretty much all of part II. It has at least three parts. It should be a good one, Eugenie Scot is the moderator:

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#105761 Nov 12, 2013
As I watch this video I see something that our creationist friends forget all of the time. Behe and Dembski essentially accept evolution. They accept common decent. They argue that evolution could not happen without God's help.

“Dinosaurs survived the flood!”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Jesus probably rode dinosaurs!

#105762 Nov 12, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Dan is more approachable and knowledgeable than you. Losers always cry. Lol
I appreciate you confidence in me, but I must admit that when it comes to the subjects of languages, modern humans and anthropology, I am left setting on the bench. I am fortunate that there are experts that frequent this forum and are willing to share their knowledge to those really interested.

“Dinosaurs survived the flood!”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Jesus probably rode dinosaurs!

#105763 Nov 12, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Although Dan is a real nice guy, unlike you, and he is approachable for sure, do you have any evidence that he is more knowledgeable than me and in what subjects are you referring? Or is it just your god given guesswork doing itÂ’s thing and guessing?
Well, I am just getting compliments all over the place. I am not use to that.

I am still in awe of the fact that you have worked in a 50,000 year old Neanderthal site. Only recently have I begun to have any interest in human evolution. But I am finding that I have been missing a treasure trove of great science and evidence for evolution.

I have meant to ask for a while, but keep forgetting. Are you familiar with the work of Diane Gifford-Gonzalez? I came across a reference to her work while I was reading. The work was baseline evaluations of hunting and fishing camps of the Turkana people. She was excavating known sites as a basis of comparison to excavations of ancient sites. I find that the importance of this sort of foundational work is often overlooked, but its value can't be overstated.

“Dinosaurs survived the flood!”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Jesus probably rode dinosaurs!

#105764 Nov 12, 2013
SBT wrote:
<quoted text>
Via the mechanism we can now see working. The same where we see no possibility of accidents to explain cell operation and DNA origin, simply because evolution says we should. You folks act like we are still in the 19th century attached to the notion spontaneous generation. We are not, we are in the 21st century and the microscopes have proved the old all wrong. You contrive more and more elaborate stories, deny complexity and design to the point where you have lost all touch with reality. As for the fossil you mention, feathers, perching feet and hollow bones come from birds, now found in soft tissue.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =tLfeDjjio8kXX
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
Soft tissue archyx
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18882-s...
You are still mixing abiogenesis and evolution together as if they were the same concept. They are not and if you have been involved in this debate as long as you claim, you should know that.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#105765 Nov 13, 2013
victoria1 unplugged wrote:
<quoted text>
The Oxford University Press pretty much takes care of that.
Ok.
But is it recognised by other English native speakers who are not from the UK, as their headquarters?
A good example is, Paris in France.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#105766 Nov 13, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I dont care about this pointless argument. I dont suppose you have heard
of the notion of public domain.
More interesting is the way the development of new languages provides a
good analogy for the process of biological evolution.
If you are ignorant on this, English is an international language, that cuts accross all spheres of life.
It originated in a place called, England.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#105767 Nov 13, 2013
SBT wrote:
<quoted text>
So you would be quite happy with a half done clotting system? Tell God to take yours back or thank Him for it is my point. God made us and said it was all "Very Good", and that we are "fearfully and wonderfully made". I don't see any biblical contradiction. Half the posters on this site think they came from nothing yet enjoy the health and protections God incorporated into our bodies, the design of senses and emotions, ability to laugh and love yet mock their maker yet fail to make a single hair on their heads - brilliant.
I need my whole clotting system. That does not mean it did not arise from simpler clotting systems.

Perhaps the whole line of advanced land vertebrates could not have evolved as they did until a workable clotting system developed. So what?

You guys just never get over the hindsight and sharpshooter fallacies, because you can never quite reconcile yourself to the possibility that the whole world was NOT put there just for our benefit. Its quite likely that we like millipns of other species were merely temporary occupants of this planet and 50 million years from now life will go on with all trace of us ever existing erased.

As the first creatures, probably, to have any idea what is going on, that will be a pity.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#105768 Nov 13, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> If you are ignorant on this, English is an international language, that cuts accross all spheres of life.
It originated in a place called, England.
REALLY?????
WELL I'LL BE DARNED!!!!!

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#105769 Nov 13, 2013
JM_Brazil wrote:
<quoted text>
Yer a gurl
Was that a question, a statement or an attempt at humour

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#105770 Nov 13, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>being a snowboarder, i have often been called a knuckle-dragger. and yes, sometimes i do use my hands to aid in balance when i am carving some seriously sick turns with my body just inches off the snow...
Good example, I hike and often times I need to negotiate hills etc in the same way

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