Evolution vs. Creation

Full story: Best of New Orleans

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

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The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#105455
Nov 8, 2013
 

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bohart wrote:
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Show me evidence of a complex biological system being produced by anything other than an already existing biological system. That is the essence of it.
God.

Oops.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#105456
Nov 8, 2013
 

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replaytime wrote:
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A 50,000 year old arrow/spear head shows intelligence and I don't believe it can be produced naturally,,, well not naturally to the working design.
Sure.

Except for instance that many early arrowheads were made of slate. Some were modified by chipping pieces of it, however some were fine just as they were, and we know they were used as arrowheads either because they had the very slight occasional remnants of string around it, or were simply found in a collection of other arrowheads.

Of course this makes detection of "deliberate design" kind of difficult at best if some slates didn't even need any modification.

Don't forget that you fundies have had thousands of years to explain "design" and STILL can't do it. And you keep talking about your beliefs. We don't care. Reality doesn't care. They are NOT important.

Never were.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

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#105457
Nov 8, 2013
 
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
God.
Oops.
so a god would be considered life?
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#105458
Nov 8, 2013
 

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replaytime wrote:
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Show me evidence of/in chemistry and biology making life from nonlife.
Easy. Life.

This has been pointed out to you numerous times. Poly went into even greater detail a few days ago.

Until you can actually deal with your posts this thread will consist of little but stupid fundies repeating arguments that have already been debunked, or avoiding our arguments like the plague and pretending they don't matter.

Once you were not alive. Now you are. Before 3.8 billion years ago there was no life. Now there is. God is a spirit, not a biological entity. God made life artificially, not by shagging his missus and making babies.

No matter how you cut it, life came from non-life. And whenever you claim that your position is based on scientific observation, it ALWAYS turns out that you're all bullshitting to the max and lying like hell, while our position does NOT violate its own rules like yours does.

That's why our position has a scientific hypothesis and your position has invisible Jewmagic which has not been demonstrated in thousands of years.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#105459
Nov 8, 2013
 

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replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Show me evidence of/in chemistry and biology making life from nonlife.
I haven't mentioned God. Why do you mention God in all you post?
Are you obsessed with God?
Oh, and as dumb as you are even you're not so dumb as to pretend that your alternative to the natural development of life is not Godmagic.

Are you?
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#105460
Nov 8, 2013
 

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replaytime wrote:
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So you believe in what you have no evidence of. So basically you are like a creationist but believe in a different theory that has no evidence. And that makes you better how?
Belief is irrelevant when one has evidence. That's why we have it and you don't.

Remember that both positions have already been examined. Your position breaks its own rules and ours does not. Your position fails to make scientific predictions and ours does not. Whenever we bring these points up you guys ignore them like the plague and bring up something totally irrelevant or make lame ad-hom jokes.

When you feel like dealing with reality then let us know. But as long as you prefer to deny reality and look dumb for the entire world to see then we're happy for you to carry on.(shrug)
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#105461
Nov 8, 2013
 

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SBT wrote:
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You're right, evo is getting way to complicated for me to understand
Everyone already knew that years ago.(shrug)
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#105462
Nov 8, 2013
 

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replaytime wrote:
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Dodge of a question you say!! You now have dodged several in a row. Yes there is magic for it would be magic if you could ever pull your head out of your @ss long enough to back the things you claim.
Leave the irony meters alone, Repro. Which of our positions violates its own axioms? Ours or yours?

Take your time. We can wait a few more millenia.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#105463
Nov 8, 2013
 

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replaytime wrote:
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I have always said I believe God started life and since has let life evolve.
Your beliefs are irrelevant. They do not dictate reality. They are not important.

At all.

Never have been.

Sorry.

“Life is a learning highway”

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#105464
Nov 8, 2013
 

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replaytime wrote:
<quoted text> Show me evidence of/in chemistry and biology making life from nonlifeI haven't mentioned God.
Why do you mention God in all you post? Are you obsessed with God?
You reply
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>i ddin;t say i had evidence of it. i am saying without this maic it would be just chemistry /biology.
you really have a hard time with a logical conversation, don't you?
you brought up magic, that would be your god myth. would this god be life creating life? or would that also be life coming from nonlife,i. e. abiogenesis?
I said
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Criss Angel does magic but I don't think it has anything to do with God. Why do you always associate magic with God. Is that your personnel believe?
You said
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>incorrect, as usual,(do you never tire of making an ass of yourself? seriously...) Angel performs illusions and sleight of hand and party tricks. no magic. there is no magic.
nice dodge of the question, though.
is your god life, or not?
I said
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Dodge of a question you say!! You now have dodged several in a row. Yes there is magic for it would be magic if you could ever pull your head out of your @ss long enough to back the things you claim.
you said
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>i have dodged no questions. please show these questions you think i have dodged?
so is the god you say you believe in life?
pretty simple question, but i sense you running away real soon here...real soon.
I said
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Keep dodging questions you little worm. You are still on the hook hanging there squirming. Changing the subject won't get you off the hook.
Swing and a miss but thanks for playing.
you said
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>nope, i even re-answered it for you.
so is this god of yours life or not? why can you not answer this easy question?
As you can see I asked you more than one question and you answered zip. zilch, nada, the big O, none, nothing. But you still keep on lying saying you have. LMAO what a tard.

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#105465
Nov 8, 2013
 

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The Dude wrote:
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Leave the irony meters alone, Repro. Which of our positions violates its own axioms? Ours or yours?
Take your time. We can wait a few more millenia.
Hey Dud if figured it was about time for your round of rants. You are like clockwork twice a day with your rants. Carry on little ranting man. One day you just might and I say just might add something of value to this thread or forum.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#105466
Nov 8, 2013
 
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>so a god would be considered life?
Precisely the problem with his claims. That is, they are internally inconsistent. Here is his post:
woodtick57 wrote:
Show me evidence of a complex biological system being produced by anything other than an already existing biological system. That is the essence of it.
And we have long known by his posts is that his conclusion is therefore Goddidit with magic.

But going by his post that would make God a biological system. Which would mean that God would need to be produced by another biological system. Which would therefore mean that that biological system would need to be produced by another biological system.

Infinite regression fallacy. Especially in light of the fact that the universe, and more importantly the Earth, are, from what we can determine, finite. A fact which even Young Earth creationists agree with.

At this point they don't take the argument further, pretend that their stupidity is as valid as a scientific hypothesis, insult us a bunch of times, then repeat the same BS again.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#105467
Nov 8, 2013
 

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replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
You reply
<quoted text>
I said
<quoted text>
You said
<quoted text>
I said
<quoted text>
you said
<quoted text>
I said
<quoted text>
you said
<quoted text>
As you can see I asked you more than one question and you answered zip. zilch, nada, the big O, none, nothing. But you still keep on lying saying you have. LMAO what a tard.
Apart from your baseless religious opinions, and the fact it's all you fundies have to offer as evidence against reality, how is "God" relevant in a scientific context?
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#105468
Nov 8, 2013
 

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replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey Dud if figured it was about time for your round of rants. You are like clockwork twice a day with your rants. Carry on little ranting man. One day you just might and I say just might add something of value to this thread or forum.
I agree you are incapable of addressing my posts in a rational manner.

Ad-homs is all you have. That doesn't make my posts any less valid.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Dubai, UAE

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#105469
Nov 8, 2013
 

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SBT wrote:
<quoted text>
I saw that phoney little cartoon showing how a single bone reptile transforms. Like "Transformers". The sci-fi. A whole bunch of concordant DNA with a planned ending Must and I repeat Must be accounted for. Mindless nothingness has no end plan, no plan period. And where did the Corti show up?, the moment it does its operable and fully formed, all 15,ooo + parts, all by accident, chance and mutations. Pretty sharp Time-God that always throughs winning dice.
Behe has not been refuted. That's why his book is in its 10th + printing. He still teaches and all your side has to offer is rediculus rebuttals that cannot be replicated the he shoots down like clay pigions as they come out.
I haven't seen any cartoon. All I have seen is the fossil evidence showing intermediate stages.

And contrary to your claim of a predetermined end, each of those stages was adaptive in its own right. Meaning the process was not directed towards creating the 3-boned middle ear but could have stopped at any point in the transformation if there was no adaptive advantage to further change.

This is the mistake you guys always make. Whenever you launch your silly IC claims, you always forget that intermediate stages are only intermediate in hindsight and that these adaptations may have had completely different functions at any point in the past.

The Corti is a soft tissue organ and not expected to be found in 200 million year old fossils under normal circumstances so we have no record of its appearance and development. No biologist would assume it showed up in its current state from the beginning.

But luckily we DO have the evidence of the bone assembly changing gradually from reptilian to mammalian. In fossils that are simultaneously making other changes to the skeleton in accordance with that same transformation.

Evolution explains that. What is your alternative? A succession of "created" species that just happen to match evolutionary expectations, just happened to appear in the fossil record at the right times? Not just for the middle ear of mammals, but for all the transformations of life so far. Where are the enormous number of fossils that would predate any possible evolutionary antecedent if evolution had not been the driving force?

“Life is a learning highway”

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Since: Mar 13

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#105470
Nov 8, 2013
 

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The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree you are incapable of addressing my posts in a rational manner.
Ad-homs is all you have. That doesn't make my posts any less valid.
Show me one post you made worth addressing in your rant and I will address it.

“Life is a learning highway”

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#105471
Nov 8, 2013
 

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The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure.
Except for instance that many early arrowheads were made of slate. Some were modified by chipping pieces of it, however some were fine just as they were, and we know they were used as arrowheads either because they had the very slight occasional remnants of string around it, or were simply found in a collection of other arrowheads.
Of course this makes detection of "deliberate design" kind of difficult at best if some slates didn't even need any modification.
Don't forget that you fundies have had thousands of years to explain "design" and STILL can't do it. And you keep talking about your beliefs. We don't care. Reality doesn't care. They are NOT important.
Never were.
Let me address this one. Is your computer you rant from a design? Is the internet you use to rant from a design? Is the TV you watch from a design? Is the phone you use from a design? Name me something you use everyday that isn't from a design?

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Dubai, UAE

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#105472
Nov 8, 2013
 
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
Fascinating, a penny on the ground is evidence of an intelligence responsible for it, yet the flagellum motor which is far, far more complex is not evidence of an intelligent agent at work?
Incredible illogic
What are the real distinctions between living systems and human designed objects?

Living systems develop from the molecular level up - "inside out". Human objects are usually built from the outside in - moulded, carved and shaped, bolted together, but seldom grown.

Living systems reproduce with heredity, and at least above the level of bacteria, cannot borrow complex structures from other lineages. This strict nested hierarchy is totally different from human design parameters.

Complexity is not a marker of design. In fact until very recently, no designed objects were remotely as complex as living systems. Sometimes living systems are in fact ridiculously complex with huge redundancy and a simpler outcome could have been intelligently designed. But evolution is a mindless complexity generator, endlessly tinkering and adding to systems without foresight.

So, no, its your chosen standards of comparison that are illogical, not evolution.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#105473
Nov 8, 2013
 
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Show me one post you made worth addressing in your rant and I will address it.
Sure, which is why you've been ducking, dodging and diving for weeks now. Keep it up and you'll end up like Bo. Not exactly a great role model, but hey, whatever you want man...
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#105474
Nov 8, 2013
 
replaytime wrote:
Let me address this one. Is your computer you rant from a design? Is the internet you use to rant from a design? Is the TV you watch from a design? Is the phone you use from a design?
Yes they are. Thankfully they work because evolution works. Evolution works because science works.
replaytime wrote:
Name me something you use everyday that isn't from a design?
Air.

Okay, well the problem here is that there's nothing I can name that God may have potentially "designed". But uh, you DO know that's YOUR claim you gotta back up, right?

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