Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 218842 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

“e pluribus unum”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

primus inter pares

#105400 Nov 8, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
I would agree that it is very great precision. But I would warm against the idea that was common in physics at the end of the 19th century that all that is left is adding a few decimal points: those new decimal points can carry a lot of surprises and drastically affect the *philosophical* viewpoints we have about the world.
For example, quantum mechanics came about because that next decimal point describing an atom simply didn't correspond to predictions. Relativity came about because that next decimal point describing light didn't correspond to predictions. And both of these subjects have made dramatic impacts on both our views of the universe and our everyday lives.
Learning to control that next decimal point can lead to revolutions in technology and our understanding.
These things entail a bit more than decimal places, they came with the need to explain the behavior of substances near absolute zero, and characteristics that could not be explained with the methods and terminology of the day.

“Ask Randy From Ballwin”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

He Is A Sock Know It All

#105401 Nov 8, 2013
Igor Trip wrote:
<quoted text>
So who here has ever claimed to know everything?
Please name names and provide the relevant topix posts.
Since when does citing a quote have to refer to a person or people? To think it does you must have a person or people in mind. Do share your thoughts.

“Ask Randy From Ballwin”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

He Is A Sock Know It All

#105402 Nov 8, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> So, lastly, if English is not native to those historical nations mentioned by you, it can not therefore originate there. So, friend, saying it originated in West Germany or mainland Europe, is a first class myth.
If the Italians stop making pizza does that leave the door open for someone still making pizza to claim it as their own? I think not.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#105403 Nov 8, 2013
SBT wrote:
<quoted text>
I saw that phoney little cartoon showing how a single bone reptile transforms. Like "Transformers". The sci-fi. A whole bunch of concordant DNA with a planned ending Must and I repeat Must be accounted for. Mindless nothingness has no end plan, no plan period. And where did the Corti show up?, the moment it does its operable and fully formed, all 15,ooo + parts, all by accident, chance and mutations. Pretty sharp Time-God that always throughs winning dice.
Behe has not been refuted. That's why his book is in its 10th + printing. He still teaches and all your side has to offer is rediculus rebuttals that cannot be replicated the he shoots down like clay pigions as they come out.
Last claim first. Behe has been refuted, and by quite a few different people. The reason that his book is in its tenth printing only reflects on the stubborn stupidity of creatards.

Second you have no idea how evolution works. Nor did you even look at any of the refutations of your addlepated hero. Anyone who thinks that evolution happens all at once or by chance is an idiot who should not be arguing against evolution. You cannot debunk what you do not understand.

Level 2

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#105404 Nov 8, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
No, it is not. We know that pennies are only made through the interaction of intelligence. We also know that complex sysytems are often produced naturally, especially in evolutionary contexts. So, while the existence of a relatively simple penny shows the action of an intelligence, the presence of a more complex biological system does not.
The problem is that to be able to conclude the existence of an intelligent agent, we have to know the types of things that can be produced naturally. And the fact is that complex systems *can* be produced naturally and without the intervention of an intelligence. In fact, it is often the *simplicity* of an artifact that shows the action of intelligence, not the complexity.
Show me evidence of a complex biological system being produced by anything other than an already existing biological system. That is the essence of it.

“Ask Randy From Ballwin”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

He Is A Sock Know It All

#105405 Nov 8, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
No, it is not. We know that pennies are only made through the interaction of intelligence. We also know that complex sysytems are often produced naturally, especially in evolutionary contexts. So, while the existence of a relatively simple penny shows the action of an intelligence, the presence of a more complex biological system does not.
The problem is that to be able to conclude the existence of an intelligent agent, we have to know the types of things that can be produced naturally. And the fact is that complex systems *can* be produced naturally and without the intervention of an intelligence. In fact, it is often the *simplicity* of an artifact that shows the action of intelligence, not the complexity.
A 50,000 year old arrow/spear head shows intelligence and I don't believe it can be produced naturally,,, well not naturally to the working design.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#105406 Nov 8, 2013
SBT wrote:
<quoted text>
I saw that phoney little cartoon showing how a single bone reptile transforms. Like "Transformers". The sci-fi. A whole bunch of concordant DNA with a planned ending Must and I repeat Must be accounted for. Mindless nothingness has no end plan, no plan period. And where did the Corti show up?, the moment it does its operable and fully formed, all 15,ooo + parts, all by accident, chance and mutations. Pretty sharp Time-God that always throughs winning dice.
Behe has not been refuted. That's why his book is in its 10th + printing. He still teaches and all your side has to offer is rediculus rebuttals that cannot be replicated the he shoots down like clay pigions as they come out.
Russell Doolittle was an original reviewer of "Darwin's Black Box" and also the man whose work in blood clotting was Behe's basis for discussion. Doolittle described the book as "misrepresenting many important points" and being "disingenuous". Apparently this review alone was strong enough for the original publisher to turn down publication.

During the Dover trial, and I know you have heard this before, Behe said under oath that there was no peer reviewed accounts of rigorous, detailed research to support intelligent design.

Is the fact that Behe is smart enough not to bring his ID religious belief into a science class to keep his job evidence of intelligent design? Behe's maybe, but not for the development of life on earth.

SBT, you use a lot of evidence to support your point. Unfortunately, most of it is unrelated to the matter under discussion. It is equivalent to me arguing the 1969 Dodge Charger with the 440 was a better street car than the Charger with the 426 Hemi and therefore evolution is supported.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#105407 Nov 8, 2013
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
Show me evidence of a complex biological system being produced by anything other than an already existing biological system. That is the essence of it.
That would be abiogenesis bugfart and you have been told numerous times, it is in the hypothetical stage.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#105408 Nov 8, 2013
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
Great, you asked the question, what is it? or did you misunderstand your own question
i noticed yo dodged it totally. why is that Bohart? why do you never answer the questions that prove your posts to be just bullshit?

if information is not energy or matter, what is it? seems like a very simple question from your very simple statement.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#105409 Nov 8, 2013
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
Well I could be like you guys and post the tons of evidence you have for abiogenesis.
Oh wait, there isn't any.
so this creator you believe in, that was life that created life? is that what you are saying? if not, then abiogenesis did happen.

“Ask Randy From Ballwin”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

He Is A Sock Know It All

#105410 Nov 8, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>so this creator you believe in, that was life that created life? is that what you are saying? if not, then abiogenesis did happen.
So other words you believe magic makes magic happen. No magician needed. Things just happen for the sake of it.

SBT
Level 2

Since: Jun 13

United States

#105411 Nov 8, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>Russell Doolittle was an original reviewer of "Darwin's Black Box" and also the man whose work in blood clotting was Behe's basis for discussion. Doolittle described the book as "misrepresenting many important points" and being "disingenuous". Apparently this review alone was strong enough for the original publisher to turn down publication.
During the Dover trial, and I know you have heard this before, Behe said under oath that there was no peer reviewed accounts of rigorous, detailed research to support intelligent design.
Is the fact that Behe is smart enough not to bring his ID religious belief into a science class to keep his job evidence of intelligent design? Behe's maybe, but not for the development of life on earth.
SBT, you use a lot of evidence to support your point. Unfortunately, most of it is unrelated to the matter under discussion. It is equivalent to me arguing the 1969 Dodge Charger with the 440 was a better street car than the Charger with the 426 Hemi and therefore evolution is supported.
In the lower 48 they let me drive a 440 Charger,- once. As a kid from Alaska they made me sit in the back after that, smart move. We only had 20 miles of roads in my town and I didn't own a car, so funny you bring that up. Look, everyone here should read up on the clotting process and then read Behe's version. Seem those here put Behe's work down because it's fashionable in evolutionary talkorigins fed circles and not from an informed position. The topic of discussion was Behe and blood clotting, not brought up by myself. I think the Hemi did fine when it hit the power band and the 440 was better of the blocks, is that correct?

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#105412 Nov 8, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
So other words you believe magic makes magic happen. No magician needed. Things just happen for the sake of it.
there is not one single shred of any magic ever happening ever in the history of humanity. what imagined magic are you talking about?

are you talking about your proven false god again? haven't you been shamed enough on that score?

“Ask Randy From Ballwin”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

He Is A Sock Know It All

#105413 Nov 8, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>there is not one single shred of any magic ever happening ever in the history of humanity. what imagined magic are you talking about?
are you talking about your proven false god again? haven't you been shamed enough on that score?
No we are talking about abiogenesis. Life from none life. Was that magic or did it just happen for the sake of it?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#105414 Nov 8, 2013
SBT wrote:
<quoted text>
In the lower 48 they let me drive a 440 Charger,- once. As a kid from Alaska they made me sit in the back after that, smart move. We only had 20 miles of roads in my town and I didn't own a car, so funny you bring that up. Look, everyone here should read up on the clotting process and then read Behe's version. Seem those here put Behe's work down because it's fashionable in evolutionary talkorigins fed circles and not from an informed position. The topic of discussion was Behe and blood clotting, not brought up by myself. I think the Hemi did fine when it hit the power band and the 440 was better of the blocks, is that correct?
There is no point. Behe's claims on the blood clotting cascade were wrong. It still works without some of the factors. It does not work as well. Blood clotting evolved along with life. It didn't happen all at once. The various articles and videos linked to you tried to explain that. You ignored them. Why should we read Behe's nonsense when you won't read the material that proves him wrong. And since our material proves him wrong why should we read him anyway? Wouldn't that be a massive waste of time?

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#105415 Nov 8, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
No we are talking about abiogenesis. Life from none life. Was that magic or did it just happen for the sake of it?
no that would not be magic, that would be chemistry and biology.

now your proven false god would be magic, but as we know, there is no magic.

so you are saying this non-corporeal being that you think of as god is life creating life? is that correct?

“Ask Randy From Ballwin”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

He Is A Sock Know It All

#105416 Nov 8, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>no that would not be magic, that would be chemistry and biology.
now your proven false god would be magic, but as we know, there is no magic.
so you are saying this non-corporeal being that you think of as god is life creating life? is that correct?
Show me evidence of/in chemistry and biology making life from nonlife.

I haven't mentioned God. Why do you mention God in all you post?

Are you obsessed with God?

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#105417 Nov 8, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Show me evidence of/in chemistry and biology making life from nonlife.
I haven't mentioned God. Why do you mention God in all you post?
Are you obsessed with God?
i ddin;t say i had evidence of it. i am saying without this maic it would be just chemistry /biology.

you really have a hard time with a logical conversation, don't you?

you brought up magic, that would be your god myth. would this god be life creating life? or would that also be life coming from nonlife,i. e. abiogenesis?

“Ask Randy From Ballwin”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

He Is A Sock Know It All

#105418 Nov 8, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>i ddin;t say i had evidence of it. i am saying without this maic it would be just chemistry /biology.
you really have a hard time with a logical conversation, don't you?
you brought up magic, that would be your god myth. would this god be life creating life? or would that also be life coming from nonlife,i. e. abiogenesis?
So you believe in what you have no evidence of. So basically you are like a creationist but believe in a different theory that has no evidence. And that makes you better how?

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#105419 Nov 8, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Show me evidence of/in chemistry and biology making life from nonlife.
I haven't mentioned God. Why do you mention God in all you post?
Are you obsessed with God?
There is plausible evidence for abiogenesis via abiotic synthesis. WITH OR WITHOUT A SUPERNATURAL DEITY.

If there IS/WAS a Supernatural Deity, the evidence available suggest that He/She/It used the forces and time parameters defined in science as It's means of "Creation".

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