Evolution vs. Creation

Full story: Best of New Orleans

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.
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99,481 - 99,500 of 114,555 Comments Last updated 47 min ago

“Pissing people off since 1949”

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Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

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#105056
Nov 6, 2013
 

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replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
I did not say you bitched about God. I said the creationist see you as bitching about God. Try reading the post again before you jump to a conclusion and put words in my mouth that I did not say.
Talk about splitting hairs! GEEZ!
anonymous

Absecon, NJ

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#105057
Nov 6, 2013
 

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Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> You have not answered the questions either.
Says who?

If you don't like the answers, don't ask the questions.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#105059
Nov 6, 2013
 

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bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
Yep! here it is Abiogenesis could have been caused by God? That's not the definition of abiogenesis,...it's natural processes,..so you didn't know the meaning of the word?
Since the whole UNIVERSE is natural then according to you couldn't be caused by God then.(shrug)

“Pissing people off since 1949”

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#105061
Nov 6, 2013
 

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DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>This is why you always fail. You come up with these ridiculous stories instead of presenting evidence. The 5th graders would probably think either of those stories were boring and run off to recess.
You live in a fantasy world. I can't imagine you are much older than a 5th grader. Don't you have any self respect?
Now how about some evidence to support your wild ass claim instead of some poor and pointless what if story about you and your classmates.
He apparently suffers from engineerinosis.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

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#105062
Nov 6, 2013
 

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fossils wrote:
I love the fact there is no real fossil record of man from the apes to man. Well unless you take into account the ones made up of ape bones and a lot of plaster. Leakey proved that game true.
Leakey reference please.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

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#105063
Nov 6, 2013
 

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anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>
Well.... primarily because when a new life is formed, it is given genetics with telomeres of a predetermined length, consistent with the overall life expectancy of a naturally occurring organism and optimized for the time needed for that species to reach maturity and produce a strategically diverse selection of offspring. As cells replicate, the telomeres become shorter until the body's cells simply stop replacing themselves.
As the species intellectually progresses, more time is needed for reaching maturity. As the chemistry of the body becomes fine tuned, life expectancy can also be expected to be extended as the species is not expected to "experiment" as much with a diversity of environments.
Since humanity is now far less dependent on the natural vitality of the body and far more dependent on the intellectual abilities of the species to control medical science and the environment, it's natural to assume that life expectancy will dramatically increase in the near future.
The only real biological question is whether or not the species will find its niche in social stability or in constant conflict with itself. The simplest of truths is that death is fast becoming something that we actually do have a choice about, but the weight of the question is more about just how many years does one really want to have to explore one's own limited physical identity. At what point would altering one's physiology take away one's sense of "eternal soul" and reason for living?
Perhaps part of the cycle of life is accepting a death with dignity and to allow the one thing that makes life worth living, the unpredictability of the future.
Anyway, you're still a tired old bigot! English is not owned by England. Your literal views of the Bible are childish! Just saying!
You just caused Charles' head to explode. Well done.

“Up with which, I will not put”

Since: Jul 08

Sao Paulo

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#105064
Nov 6, 2013
 

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bohart wrote:
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No one takes you seriously, you are sad. Lying, dodging ducking, accusing ,and even distorting the meaning of words.
Get help cultist
It's you who is not taken seriously Bohart. Many intellegent posts have been aimed specifically at you, yet this "lying, dodging ducking, accusing, and even distorting the meaning of words" are the typical responses from you. Time and time again, just like this post of yours I'm quoting. Frankly I'm suprised Subduction Zone even takes the time to reply to you, knowing full well your response will be simply uneducated sarcasm, typical of a troll.

“Up with which, I will not put”

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#105065
Nov 6, 2013
 

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DanFromSmithville wrote:
I am losing the ability to suspend disbelief. I started watching a show tonight called "Walking Dead". Some mystery contagion has swept the world turning most of the population into flesh-eating zombies. It is a pretty good story, with decent acting and effects. I began watching shortly after the program had started and there was a scene with one of the main characters, a sheriff, confronting what he thought was a scared little girl. She turns around and you can see she doesn't have the lower half of her face. Now the first thing I think is how can this thing composed of necrotic tissue function. All the biochemical pathways have broken down, cell membranes have degraded. If the organs are dead, none of the necessary functions are being carried out. Not to mention the host of microbial flora that are starting to take over the body from within and without. I mentioned that they are flesh-eating, but I can't imagine what good that would do them or why they would need to eat.
I really don't think I have lost the ability to suspend disbelief for the pleasure of entertainment. I just don't have the same ignorance I did as a child. I don't attribute supernatural origins to every phenomenon I encounter, but don't fully understand. It doesn't frighten me when there are real, concrete answers to questions that cross into my belief system.
How could she eat anyway if she's missing the lower half of her face? Wouldn't she starve to death? Oh, Wait...

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#105066
Nov 6, 2013
 

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Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Still beating around the bush.
You have presented exactly zero evidence for the existence of God.

You have this strange idea that if you can ask a question that science cannot answer, then somehow that is evidence of God or it should make us believe in God. That is false, empty reasoning.

“I started out with nothing”

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and still got most of it left

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#105067
Nov 6, 2013
 

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Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Likewise. You can not provide answers to the posted questions. Bingo!
Yes I can and have, several times, as has several other people. Not my problem if those answers donít fit in with your delusions

“See how you are?”

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#105068
Nov 6, 2013
 

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replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes and no. Some base it on fear. Some base it on hope. Some base it on belief. Some fear going to hell. Some hope to get out of this hell and go to heaven. Some just believe and hope for the best.
So to make a long story (1700 pages, more or less) short, religion is a coping mechanism.

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#105069
Nov 6, 2013
 

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polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
As opposed to creationism that postulates that such a process happened 10,000 years ago or so.
The universe is about 13.7 billion years old. The earth is about 4.5 billion years old, or about a third the age of the universe. A *lot* happened between the formation of the universe and the formation of the earth. Life appears to be a phenomenon that started on the earth (although there is some dispute here).
So the question of how the universe formed and the question of how life formed in that universe are two very different questions. They are approached by different methods, have different ways of testing, and are not directly related to each other (except that the formation of life requires the chemicals that were formed after the universe got started).
<quoted text>
Wrong.
Abiogenesis does not address how the universe came about. It deals with the natural processes that formed the first life. Those processes were clearly much later than the formation of the universe since the very early universe was inhospitable to life (way too hot).
So, it is quite possible that some deity formed the universe and that *later* life began through the natural processes that the deity started at the beginning. That would still be abiogenesis: the formation of life through natural processes. So creation and abiogenesis are quite compatible.
Now, there is no evidence that this, in fact, happened. It is *possible* that the universe was created by a multi-dimensional teenager as a high-school art project. That would still be 'creation', but it certainly wouldn't correspond to your ideas of 'God'.
It is *possible* that some race of intelligent beings in the multi-verse learned how to create universes and that ours is one of the universes they created. It is even *possible* that this creation was a mistake by a scientists that was investigating something else.
<quoted text>
I am not 'hostile' to the idea of a God. I simply find the evidence for such a being to be sorely lacking. The actual range of natural possibilities has not been thoroughly investigated, so it is quite premature to proclaim an intelligent designer or even a creator (different concepts--see the scientists above).
You claim the universe was designed and created, for which we have no evidence. You then claim that there was a further intervention when life formed, without any evidence. You then claim that there were yet other interventions to a very specific small planet during a very short period of time and that the designer of the universe *also* has given moral laws to the inhabitants of this one planet.
And you say *I* am being stupid?
and you despite your dubious claims, have no evidence that life sprang forth from a puddle on it's on.

So here we are.

“I have upset the hand of god”

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#105070
Nov 6, 2013
 

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Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> But despite their concepts, they are used to determine real things. So, by that, they are real.
As concepts they are real, but as physical, tangible things they are not.

Iceland for instance is an island and as such surrounded on all side by water. Disregarding wave and tidal action, you can see where the land and the sea meet. It is a boundary established by nature on physical principles and we can see it. Longitude, latitude, and political borders are not physically real, but the concepts they represent are real. I think in the sense of concepts you see them as real, but in the sense of an actual line somewhere, they are not. These were all established by people and don't represent some natural line that we somehow found or tuned in on. We could just as easily pick a different set of lines and use those.

Don't forget, a map is just a metaphor and metaphors are never perfect.

“I have upset the hand of god”

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#105071
Nov 6, 2013
 
JM_Brazil wrote:
<quoted text>
How could she eat anyway if she's missing the lower half of her face? Wouldn't she starve to death? Oh, Wait...
She must have seen something so shocking her jaw dropped. But that is a good point. Poor little zombie waif must be starving.

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#105072
Nov 6, 2013
 

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The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no theory. There is a hypothesis which you are unable to present a valid criticism.
Where is your hypothesis? how did Dud's universe start and how did life begin.

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#105073
Nov 6, 2013
 

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JM_Brazil wrote:
<quoted text>
It's you who is not taken seriously Bohart. Many intellegent posts have been aimed specifically at you, yet this "lying, dodging ducking, accusing, and even distorting the meaning of words" are the typical responses from you. Time and time again, just like this post of yours I'm quoting. Frankly I'm suprised Subduction Zone even takes the time to reply to you, knowing full well your response will be simply uneducated sarcasm, typical of a troll.
Oh no! perhaps you can help Subby find a dictionary that has word definitions he can agree with, or maybe you can help him write his own dictionary. You see, he's the one who's having trouble with distorting words.

What is your hypothesis of how life began? and what evidence do you have to support it?

“Think&Care”

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#105074
Nov 6, 2013
 

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bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
and you despite your dubious claims, have no evidence that life sprang forth from a puddle on it's on.
So here we are.
We do not know if life started in a 'puddle', in a deep sea vent, inside a mica crystal, or in some other environment. In that, you are correct. But we *do* know that chemicals naturally polymerize and become more complex in such environments and in the way that is necessary for life to develop.

And, once again, we *know* that life is a chemical process. We know that none of the chemicals involved in life are themselves alive. We know that the basic components of the chemicals in life are common in the universe and would have been common on the early earth.

Now, what exactly is your alternative explanation? That a supernatural being, for which we have no evidence, breathed a breath of life, for which we have no evidence, into a bit of mud and humans came out of this alive and fully formed? Exactly what is the process involved in this transformation? What physical properties existed at each stage? How did the chemistry of life get started in your version of events?

For that matter, how can you suggest an 'explanation' that is based on the existence of a supernatural realm for which we have no evidence, whose properties are unknown and untestable, which has a being that we cannot fathom, with motives that cannot be understood by us, and that can overturn any law of physics at a whim? How is that an explanation at all? If anything, it is the complete avoidance of an explanation: it has no testability, it has no solid predictions of the properties of life, it is based on no known properties of the being proposed, etc. As an explanation, it it totally worthless (except to calm the fears of a two year old).

So yes, to say that life, which is chemically based, and which is made from basic chemicals that are common, could have arose from natural chemical processes is a FAR more justifiable explanation than what you propose.

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#105075
Nov 6, 2013
 

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bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh no! perhaps you can help Subby find a dictionary that has word definitions he can agree with, or maybe you can help him write his own dictionary. You see, he's the one who's having trouble with distorting words.
What is your hypothesis of how life began? and what evidence do you have to support it?
You poor moron. If you had half of a brain you would want to know WHY the definitions had problems. Instead you are happy to play the idiot.

It is early in the morning and I feel generous to idiots for now. What was wrong with the first definition is that it called abiogenesis a "theory" where we know that it is a hypothesis.. If it was a "theory" that would mean the problem was fairly well solved so that we could predict how early life would react at different points in its development, just as the theory of gravity allows us to plot orbits, use GPS systems etc.

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#105076
Nov 6, 2013
 

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bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
and you despite your dubious claims, have no evidence that life sprang forth from a puddle on it's on.
So here we are.
Actually we do have evidence. He even listed some of it for you. Unfortunately for you, you do not know what qualifies as scientific evidence. And yet idiots like you were why scientific evidence has the definition that it now has.

That is irony for you.

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#105077
Nov 6, 2013
 

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fossils wrote:
I love the fact there is no real fossil record of man from the apes to man. Well unless you take into account the ones made up of ape bones and a lot of plaster. Leakey proved that game true.
You have been running your mouth a lot without providing any evidence that supports your claim.

Let's see your evidence for your Leakey claim and I will gladly provide evidence for the various fossils.

By the way, you could not even get what the fossils represent correctly. Since men are apes the fossil record shows a transition from one ape species to another. Biologists knew that man was an ape long before Darwin came along. In fact it was a creationist who first recognized this fact.

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