Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story

SBT
Level 2

Since: Jun 13

United States

#104559 Nov 4, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>

Okay, for all of the idiots out there. All of the simple problems have long ago been solved in evolution. So scientist specialize today. They each cover a very small part of a bigger problem. That is why it takes many articles to explain the evolution of the rotator flagellum. When they are put together we can see the bigger picture. None of the biologists involved in all of those articles had any doubt that the flagellum was a product of evolution.
SBT, if you site articles you should try to site articles that actually support you.
Yes and Custer lost at the Washita and won at Little Big Horn. Meet MO-1, a 7 engine version of e.coli. It uses counter rotating props/dual props like the Russian and latest French 4 engine C-130 type transports. More efficient than a single flagella when you want extra thrust without the extra drag from extra engine nacelles. Oh, I forgot it has reduction gears..

"MO-1 - a bacterium that packs a gear-driven, seven-engine, magnetic-guided flagellar bundle that gets 0 to 300 micrometers in one second, ten times faster than E. coli".

"If you thought the standard bacterial flagellum made the case for intelligent design, wait till you hear the specs on MO-1, a marine bacterium described by Japanese researchers in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. Edited by Howard Berg, Harvard's mastermind of flagellum reverse engineering, this paper describes the Ferrari of flagella".

Instead of being a simple helically wound propeller driven by a rotary motor, it is a complex organelle consisting of 7 flagella and 24 fibrils that form a tight bundle enveloped by a glycoprotein sheath.... the flagella of MO-1 must rotate individually, and yet the entire bundle functions as a unit to comprise a motility organelle.

http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2012/11/21/...

Course you already "believe" it evolved, so if we have a single motor unit and then wow, on the evolution show floor this MO-1 Ferarri shows up, where is your common decent intermediate models? You should have one with a gear box, then a dual model with a pair of counter props, then, then, then presto! The 2012 7 engine model! Course your factory has no planning, design group, engineers etc., just mindless nothingness did it all, but shuuush, don't tell that to the unsuspecting buyer, may effect sales...

Just skip over the arguments I make from an electrical,design, PLC logic and electronics standpoint and the evolutionary fairytale continues...

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/cu...

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Australia

#104560 Nov 4, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>What does Uranus have to do with the theory of evolution? I have heard that people were trying to gather funds to establish haploid life forms on Uranus, but I can't find the reference.
Aura posted the Uranus link.

Yes, it is amazing that naturalists insist there must be other alien life forms somewhere and have no trouble accepting multiple dimensions. However, when theists present support for a non corporeal alien life form that lives in an ethereal realm, atheists call theists the silly ones.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#104561 Nov 4, 2013
SBT wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes and Custer lost at the Washita and won at Little Big Horn. Meet MO-1, a 7 engine version of e.coli. It uses counter rotating props/dual props like the Russian and latest French 4 engine C-130 type transports. More efficient than a single flagella when you want extra thrust without the extra drag from extra engine nacelles. Oh, I forgot it has reduction gears..
"MO-1 - a bacterium that packs a gear-driven, seven-engine, magnetic-guided flagellar bundle that gets 0 to 300 micrometers in one second, ten times faster than E. coli".
"If you thought the standard bacterial flagellum made the case for intelligent design, wait till you hear the specs on MO-1, a marine bacterium described by Japanese researchers in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. Edited by Howard Berg, Harvard's mastermind of flagellum reverse engineering, this paper describes the Ferrari of flagella".
Instead of being a simple helically wound propeller driven by a rotary motor, it is a complex organelle consisting of 7 flagella and 24 fibrils that form a tight bundle enveloped by a glycoprotein sheath.... the flagella of MO-1 must rotate individually, and yet the entire bundle functions as a unit to comprise a motility organelle.
http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2012/11/21/...
Course you already "believe" it evolved, so if we have a single motor unit and then wow, on the evolution show floor this MO-1 Ferarri shows up, where is your common decent intermediate models? You should have one with a gear box, then a dual model with a pair of counter props, then, then, then presto! The 2012 7 engine model! Course your factory has no planning, design group, engineers etc., just mindless nothingness did it all, but shuuush, don't tell that to the unsuspecting buyer, may effect sales...
Just skip over the arguments I make from an electrical,design, PLC logic and electronics standpoint and the evolutionary fairytale continues...
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/cu...
You have not made one valid argument yet.

All you have posted are arguments from ignorance.

Once again that article does not support your claims in any way at all. Why don't you see if there is an article that actually helps you instead of ones that help us?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#104562 Nov 4, 2013
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
Aura posted the Uranus link.
Yes, it is amazing that naturalists insist there must be other alien life forms somewhere and have no trouble accepting multiple dimensions. However, when theists present support for a non corporeal alien life form that lives in an ethereal realm, atheists call theists the silly ones.
I must have missed that one.

If you are referring to his link to the Cassiopeia Project there was nothing about Uranus there.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#104563 Nov 4, 2013
SBT, a sure sign that someone is losing a debate is when he starts to use strawman arguments. Your last post was mostly a pure strawman argument, thank you for admitting defeat.

“Topix most wanted”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Hands up.

#104564 Nov 4, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
???
If I have to explain it, it probably wasn't that funny.

It was a joke on some tv show or movie I saw. The retirees would eat at 4pm to get the cheapest pricing I think. It may have been Seinfeld.

“Topix most wanted”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Hands up.

#104565 Nov 4, 2013
SBT wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes and Custer lost at the Washita and won at Little Big Horn. Meet MO-1, a 7 engine version of e.coli. It uses counter rotating props/dual props like the Russian and latest French 4 engine C-130 type transports. More efficient than a single flagella when you want extra thrust without the extra drag from extra engine nacelles. Oh, I forgot it has reduction gears..
"MO-1 - a bacterium that packs a gear-driven, seven-engine, magnetic-guided flagellar bundle that gets 0 to 300 micrometers in one second, ten times faster than E. coli".
"If you thought the standard bacterial flagellum made the case for intelligent design, wait till you hear the specs on MO-1, a marine bacterium described by Japanese researchers in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. Edited by Howard Berg, Harvard's mastermind of flagellum reverse engineering, this paper describes the Ferrari of flagella".
Instead of being a simple helically wound propeller driven by a rotary motor, it is a complex organelle consisting of 7 flagella and 24 fibrils that form a tight bundle enveloped by a glycoprotein sheath.... the flagella of MO-1 must rotate individually, and yet the entire bundle functions as a unit to comprise a motility organelle.
http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2012/11/21/...
Course you already "believe" it evolved, so if we have a single motor unit and then wow, on the evolution show floor this MO-1 Ferarri shows up, where is your common decent intermediate models? You should have one with a gear box, then a dual model with a pair of counter props, then, then, then presto! The 2012 7 engine model! Course your factory has no planning, design group, engineers etc., just mindless nothingness did it all, but shuuush, don't tell that to the unsuspecting buyer, may effect sales...
Just skip over the arguments I make from an electrical,design, PLC logic and electronics standpoint and the evolutionary fairytale continues...
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/cu...
The first article mentions the flagellum and evolution twice. The second article mentions neither. I am still trying to figure out how Custer supports your position. Maybe it is just because evolution is not mentioned.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#104566 Nov 4, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>If I have to explain it, it probably wasn't that funny.
It was a joke on some tv show or movie I saw. The retirees would eat at 4pm to get the cheapest pricing I think. It may have been Seinfeld.
That's right, Boca Vista, senior dinners at 4:00 PM in restaurants before the younger people come out. It was a great series and then they killed it at the end with a terrible finally that all but guaranteed there would be no requests for a reunion special. I think they did it on purpose.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#104567 Nov 4, 2013
Oops, "finally" was supposed to be "finale".

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Twin Cities

#104568 Nov 4, 2013
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
Aura posted the Uranus link.
Yes, it is amazing that naturalists insist there must be other alien life forms somewhere and have no trouble accepting multiple dimensions. However, when theists present support for a non corporeal alien life form that lives in an ethereal realm, atheists call theists the silly ones.
I don't think they are called 'Naturalists' anymore, they seem to like the 'Scientists' appellation nowadays.

It just seems to make sense that out of trillions of stars in the known universe there is a least ONE more planet with life.

You say:
"...non corporeal alien life form that lives in an ethereal realm, atheists call theists the silly ones."

Must be magic.:-)

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#104569 Nov 4, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>If I have to explain it, it probably wasn't that funny.
It was a joke on some tv show or movie I saw. The retirees would eat at 4pm to get the cheapest pricing I think. It may have been Seinfeld.
That would explain it. Never really liked the TV show.

Since: Mar 11

Minnesota's North Coast

#104570 Nov 4, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
That would explain it. Never really liked the TV show.
yeah, me neither...

i thought it was a well established thing that many older people eat supper early. many of the older people i know do. they also get up at 4:00am and go to bed at 8:00pm, so supper at 4 in the afternoon isn't that odd...

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#104571 Nov 4, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>yeah, me neither...
i thought it was a well established thing that many older people eat supper early. many of the older people i know do. they also get up at 4:00am and go to bed at 8:00pm, so supper at 4 in the afternoon isn't that odd...
True. I suppose it was the mention of beach bunnies that threw me off.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#104572 Nov 4, 2013
SBT wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes and Custer lost at the Washita and won at Little Big Horn. Meet MO-1, a 7 engine version of e.coli. It uses counter rotating props/dual props like the Russian and latest French 4 engine C-130 type transports. More efficient than a single flagella when you want extra thrust without the extra drag from extra engine nacelles.
Repeating a flawed analogy doesn't make it more than an analogy. You uh, KNOW what an analogy is, right?

You're not very good at this.

So go ahead and provide us with the mechanisms of design and evidence of them.

Oh wait - evidence doesn't matter to Godmagic.

And you're gonna get around to why Yersinia pestis has the same protein configuration as your flagella but with less of them any time now, right?

Since: Mar 11

Minnesota's North Coast

#104573 Nov 4, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
True. I suppose it was the mention of beach bunnies that threw me off.
i don't care how old one gets, a beautiful, tanned, young body never goes out of style!
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#104574 Nov 4, 2013
Oh groovy, SBT's twin is back.
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
Aura posted the Uranus link.
Yes, it is amazing that naturalists
(read: admission of Goddidit)
MazHere wrote:
insist there must be other alien life forms somewhere
And since we exist and the universe being as vast as it is, it's not unreasonable to think that life may exist elsewhere since obviously life is possible.
MazHere wrote:
and have no trouble accepting multiple dimensions.
Of course not. After all we exist in at least four - length, depth, breadth and time.

But then Maz goes and uses the Star Trek definition of "dimensions" thusly:
MazHere wrote:
However, when theists present support for a non corporeal alien life form that lives in an ethereal realm
I've never known that to happen. When did it happen? Next Thursday?

Or do you have objectively verifiable scientific evidence of invisible magic Jewish wizards?
MazHere wrote:
atheists call theists the silly ones.
I'm sorry, but what does theology have to do with anything? Science doesn't care what your beliefs are, or lack of same. Doesn't care who you vote for. Works the same for everybody either way.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#104575 Nov 4, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
I am still trying to figure out how Custer supports your position.
They're both dead in the water?

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Australia

#104576 Nov 4, 2013
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't think they are called 'Naturalists' anymore, they seem to like the 'Scientists' appellation nowadays.
It just seems to make sense that out of trillions of stars in the known universe there is a least ONE more planet with life.
You say:
"...non corporeal alien life form that lives in an ethereal realm, atheists call theists the silly ones."
Must be magic.:-)
These 'Scientists' accept multiple dimensions and spend their lives trying to falsify evidence of a creator. eg the impossibility of abiogenesis, special earth and every observed 'evidence' to falsify the Copernican principle.

Guess what? A powerful Creator putting earth at this address as a special creation sounds less like a magical fairytale than suggesting earth is in a 'goldilocks zone' and then ASSUME there must be lots of such planets.

Also coincidently, the earth put together a plethora of vital systems, by happenstance, that failed to happen on any other planets that have been visited or observed. eg magnetic fields, protection from radiation, a balanced carbon system, iron core, tectonics, etc etc. What has been observed so far, is that the earth IS special.

The claim "'Goldilocks' earth is not special", certainly sounds like an unscientific fairytale based on faith, not fact.

There is plenty of 'evidence' for a creator. A philosophy, the Copernican principle, is used to negate observation.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#104577 Nov 4, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
SBT, a sure sign that someone is losing a debate is when he starts to use strawman arguments. Your last post was mostly a pure strawman argument, thank you for admitting defeat.
He already did that weeks ago when he started telling everyone about his religious upbringing.(shrug)

Apparently this appeal to his human side was supposed to make us forget he was a massive hypocritical lying douche.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#104578 Nov 4, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>i don't care how old one gets, a beautiful, tanned, young body never goes out of style!


Agreed! Though they get farther out of reach each passing year.

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