Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 221486 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

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#104498 Nov 3, 2013
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
It is also up to you to have faith in TOE regardless of all evidence against it.
Pity you cannot find any. That's OK, just keep assuring everyone its there. Just like God.
If all life that arises on earth, has similar genomic structure and can share dna,

then common ancestry between ape and chimp is an assumption you choose to believe.
One does not follow from the other. More creationist "logic" I presume.

And we do not "assume" humans and chimps have a common ancestor. The fossil and genomic evidence points to it.

Level 6

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#104499 Nov 3, 2013
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
That has nothing to do with the point I made.
It has everything to do with the point you made.

The earliest life might have evolved more than once and convergence in the genome could have occurred by gene swapping. Even bacteria today swap plasmids. Or there could have been a very early common protocell ancestor.

We don't know. But any of these scenarios are plausible and therefore the archaea / bacteria split is not evidence against evolution.
"Researchers are finding that on top of the 1% distinction, chunks of missing DNA, extra genes, altered connections in gene networks, and the very structure of chromosomes confound any quantification of “humanness” versus “chimpness.”“There isn’t one single way to express the genetic distance between two complicated living organisms,” Gagneux adds."
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/316/5833/18...
http://watchmenservices.info/New%20Folder/Hum...
Are you now suggesting this evolutionary researcher above does not know what he is talking about, but you do????????
So different methods of assessing differences in the complex genome of humans and chimps can yield different results. Why should that surprise anyone?

The salient point is comparative, not absolute. The human genome is more similar to a chimp's than to any other genome by virtually any consistently used method.

And there appear to be no barriers in the transition of one to the other. Plus a pile of fossil evidence of the intermediate forms that showed it happened. Plus the genomic evidence in ubiquitous proteins, ERV's, and pseudogenes, each severally and independently confirming the nested hierarchy of evolution.

Level 6

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#104500 Nov 3, 2013
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
Very clearly you are evading the point I am making and doing a poor job at it. I'll make this as simple for you as I can.
If 'primitive cells' could transfer DNA (HGT) between themselves, then the genomic structures of all 'primitive cells' was compatable and similar?
Please refute the above claim with more than your opinion, evasion, ridicule and tail chasing.
Yes, for once your conclusion follows your premise.

However, when we are talking very basic, possibly proto-cells, one need not assume a high level of specialisation and therefore not a high barrier for compatibility. Its perfectly possible - in fact more probable than not - that early parts of living systems developed independently and literally converged (RNA, metabolic machinery, etc). We don't know yet - but once again, nothing you present suggests it could not happen.

We see the same pattern repeated at a higher level later in the transition of prokaryote to eukaryote.

Level 6

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#104501 Nov 3, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Is that a fact? The word for circle and ball were different words. Hmmmmm
<quoted text>
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/TIP...
The old circle and ball argument.

All I can say is that when the Bible was Boss and there were scholars who spent lifetimes deciphering the Bible (rather than looking at the real world), they were sure enough that the Bible said the world is flat that they were willing to put men to the fire for saying otherwise.

In this instance they had no political or material gain to be made for making one claim over the other. They just thought the Bible was the ultimate authority and had to be right and to be followed for the safety of men's souls.

So if they thought that it was unambiguous on the point, I would defer to them. The Bible says the world is flat, according to the most intense and committed research on the subject by those who did not have the benefit of reading what they "wanted" into it.

Revisionism and the desperate search for passages that could be interpreted differently came later - when they had no choice.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

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#104502 Nov 3, 2013
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>So if I traveled east to west at a rate of one rotation per 24 hrs, would I stay young forever?
Are you disputing the scientific or geographical statement? Is science a piece of shit according to you?

“It is what it is”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

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#104503 Nov 3, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
The old circle and ball argument.
All I can say is that when the Bible was Boss and there were scholars who spent lifetimes deciphering the Bible (rather than looking at the real world), they were sure enough that the Bible said the world is flat that they were willing to put men to the fire for saying otherwise.
In this instance they had no political or material gain to be made for making one claim over the other. They just thought the Bible was the ultimate authority and had to be right and to be followed for the safety of men's souls.
So if they thought that it was unambiguous on the point, I would defer to them. The Bible says the world is flat, according to the most intense and committed research on the subject by those who did not have the benefit of reading what they "wanted" into it.
Revisionism and the desperate search for passages that could be interpreted differently came later - when they had no choice.
Chimney you shouldn't be talking to me. Sub says he is pretty sure(doubts) that you and I get along. So you need to refrain from commenting to me. I would hate to show him he is wrong. Nuff said! Have a good one.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

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#104504 Nov 3, 2013
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>So if I traveled east to west at a rate of one rotation per 24 hrs, would I stay young forever?
So, science is lying?

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

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#104505 Nov 3, 2013
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>So if I traveled east to west at a rate of one rotation per 24 hrs, would I stay young forever?
So, from your premise, science is the bloody liar?

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

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#104506 Nov 3, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Chimney you shouldn't be talking to me. Sub says he is pretty sure(doubts) that you and I get along. So you need to refrain from commenting to me. I would hate to show him he is wrong. Nuff said! Have a good one.
I have to admit that I often pass over the Replaytime / Subduction Zone bits seeing as you two spend most of your time at each other's throats.

SZ says a lot of good things - when you haven't sucked him into a cockfight. All part of the fun I guess.

Level 2

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#104507 Nov 3, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
GMT or UT are assigned times by man. Using man assigned times you can make it the same time at any two locations across the globe. Using solar time it can never be the same time in London as it is in New York.
Thanks,

Level 6

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#104508 Nov 3, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Are you disputing the scientific or geographical statement? Is science a piece of shit according to you?
I have to applaud you again on being by far the most accurate, insightful, and logical representative on Topix for the Creationist viewpoint.

Well done.

Level 6

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#104509 Nov 3, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
I know when Maz disappeared all I thought was good riddance of bad rubbish. I did not go from site to site looking for her. She may have been at other sites here during her absence, she may not have been. I pretty much stick to this little corner of Topix with occasional rare excursions to Offbeat or Atheist forums.
Perhaps she just tests everything she learned at Bob Jones University between semesters. Always arrives with a roar. Always leaves with a whimper.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

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#104510 Nov 3, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
So you don’t know either, then why the fook did you bring it up? Sounds like stupidity to me
Thanks to replaytime. I was even applying man made concepts to judge that. You are always wrong.

Level 2

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#104511 Nov 3, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope, that is human imagination, not reality, nothing is actually lost.
I have tried to explain this concept to you before using the example of whales swimming across the date line and it seems that attempt could not get past your ignorance based filtering system
So here is a little experiment, set your watch to some arbitrary and obvious time, say 5:37 and some arbitrary date, say 1st November 2013. Now cross the date line and look at your watch. You will notice that the date has not changes, just your imagination of the date has changed.
That watch is a mechanical or electronic device and not subject to the vagaries of imagination and guess what, it does not imagine…
What about the sun( solar system)?

Level 2

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#104512 Nov 3, 2013
CrimeaRiver wrote:
<quoted text>
Nobody really knows.
But at least science tries to hazard a guess based on the tools available to us. But they by no means claim to know the absolute truth.
Religion (texts written by men) asks us to believe unsubstantiated claims about the origin of man and the universe.
But the ultimate truth is, we simply don't know how the universe started. We may never know!
" No body really knows ". That is an understatement.

Level 6

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#104513 Nov 3, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> What about the sun( solar system)?
I hope you have enough sense to understand that there is nothing special about Greenwich and the starting point for developing a system of longitude could have been anywhere on earth with the exception of the north and south poles.

Level 2

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#104514 Nov 4, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, look! Chuckles learned a new word, "Projecting". Isn't that just precious?
Guessing!

Level 2

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#104515 Nov 4, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>sure it can. it can be whatever time we wish it to be.
there are many people that use universal time...(same time all around the globe) for them it certainly is the same time in NY as london.
these are very simple concepts...
Poor Woodie. I have been using man' s concept, what about the sun ?

Level 2

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#104516 Nov 4, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I have to applaud you again on being by far the most accurate, insightful, and logical representative on Topix for the Creationist viewpoint.
Well done.
Likewise.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

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#104517 Nov 4, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I hope you have enough sense to understand that there is nothing special about Greenwich and the starting point for developing a system of longitude could have been anywhere on earth with the exception of the north and south poles.
And i hope you also know that the sun can never be at different places at the same time.

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