Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 216623 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#103743 Oct 28, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>Once within the host, viruses can mutate.
And they do. That's why they have to come up with a new 'flu vaccine every year.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#103744 Oct 28, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>And they do. That's why they have to come up with a new 'flu vaccine every year.
Hey Mac. Just saw a couple of articles in the latest Science that you might find interesting.

Immune Suppressant Unexpectedly Boosts Flu Vaccine

and

Surprising New Dengue Virus Throws A Spanner in Disease Control Efforts

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#103745 Oct 28, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>Hey Mac. Just saw a couple of articles in the latest Science that you might find interesting.
Immune Suppressant Unexpectedly Boosts Flu Vaccine
and
Surprising New Dengue Virus Throws A Spanner in Disease Control Efforts
Hadn't seen the 'flu one, but I did notice the dengue one. That's a serious concern down here.

“Jon Snow”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

The King in the Nor±h

#103746 Oct 28, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>nah...i'd still stick with my billions. when you include all the people that believe as charles does, i think it would be a correct accounting.
just my take on it...
What you want to say is there are far far too many people who think like Charles , with the little power to think logically, that they think with.

They think like not only wrong conclusions, but have a tainted thinking process altogether.

SBT
Level 2

Since: Jun 13

United States

#103747 Oct 28, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Your sites have been rebutted many times. You complain when others use Wikipedia which is occasionally wrong, and use lying sources that are always wrong.
Try to find some peer reviewed science that supports your claims. The paper that I have linked more than once that explains how the rotator flagellum evolved was based on over 200 peer reviewed papers. It cited them. Your article avoid peer review.
The complexity of the axial motor and its appearance as the very first primorial cell controverts your assumed age model, admit it! Slow down and think about this thing, to evolve it mindlessly with no plan or guidance exposes the entire notion of evolution.

How many mutations would it take to get this right even if every one was a perfect jackpot every throw? Maybe a million? More?

Let's start with just one proton energized micro-stator coil,(you need 11 identical one's they know of), then a connection to each X 11, then a minor little item remains, a proton modulator/controller, controller because you need to stop and vari the proton bias to each coil and reverse them also! Your clock God must have been busy! I forgot, now we must sequence the proton bias at the exact right time in fractions of a millisecond to each of these 11 stators to get it to spin. That’s just the stators, you need complementary components in the rotor, each with the correct polarization to provide torque. But wait, these parts are spinning, so they need to maintain a charge somehow, but you know - time did it, it just charged all these rotor segments perfectly! Pretty good for thoughtless mindlessness. Now the fixed and spinning structures have nm bushing clearances that somehow mutated perfectly circular parts that are floating! That’s right boys, the rotor and tail are connected to exactly nothing, but your time God is good, so presto there you have it, a whopping evolutionary marvel! So you believe these stories but in the same breath consider a 747 forming out of junk ridiculous. Help me here..

http://www.genesisalive.com/2013/10/evolution...

Double PhD Denton comments on the motor;

Motor at work;
http://www.youtube.com/watch...

SBT
Level 2

Since: Jun 13

United States

#103748 Oct 28, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
What sources claim that prokaryotes came "right out of the primordial soup" (presumably 3.5 billion years ago) equipped with the full axial proton motor? This should be good.
All the lit on the Prokaryote show it with a flagella.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#103749 Oct 28, 2013
SBT wrote:
<quoted text>
The complexity of the axial motor and its appearance as the very first primorial cell controverts your assumed age model, admit it! Slow down and think about this thing, to evolve it mindlessly with no plan or guidance exposes the entire notion of evolution.
How many mutations would it take to get this right even if every one was a perfect jackpot every throw? Maybe a million? More?
Let's start with just one proton energized micro-stator coil,(you need 11 identical one's they know of), then a connection to each X 11, then a minor little item remains, a proton modulator/controller, controller because you need to stop and vari the proton bias to each coil and reverse them also! Your clock God must have been busy! I forgot, now we must sequence the proton bias at the exact right time in fractions of a millisecond to each of these 11 stators to get it to spin. That’s just the stators, you need complementary components in the rotor, each with the correct polarization to provide torque. But wait, these parts are spinning, so they need to maintain a charge somehow, but you know - time did it, it just charged all these rotor segments perfectly! Pretty good for thoughtless mindlessness. Now the fixed and spinning structures have nm bushing clearances that somehow mutated perfectly circular parts that are floating! That’s right boys, the rotor and tail are connected to exactly nothing, but your time God is good, so presto there you have it, a whopping evolutionary marvel! So you believe these stories but in the same breath consider a 747 forming out of junk ridiculous. Help me here..
http://www.genesisalive.com/2013/10/evolution...
Double PhD Denton comments on the motor;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =TMoWfPn2pCIXX
Motor at work;
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
Where do you get that the bacterial flagellar motor was present in the first single cell organism? What is your evidence to support?

I'm pretty certain there is no help for you. Heretofore, you have been in a tailspin and flaming out over open water. It doesn't look good.

The only hope I can see is if you drop this fantasy nonsense and start considering the facts. The reality is that this little motor is a fantastic and complex structure that needs further study to learn of the details. Making up an unsubstantiated and fictional narrative using the supernatural in a desperate attempt to support your belief system is self deceit at least and plain deceit at most.

Check these out, they may help you get on the right path. Remember that none of this interferes or refutes the belief in God.

http://academic.uprm.edu/~lrios/4368/TypeIIIs...

http://www.annualreviews.org/doi/pdf/10.1146/...

http://www.physics.ox.ac.uk/Berry/pdfs%20of%2...

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#103750 Oct 28, 2013
SBT wrote:
<quoted text>
All the lit on the Prokaryote show it with a flagella.
Why don't you give us a couple of examples of this "lit". Something in the field of science with peer review would be nice.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#103751 Oct 28, 2013
SBT wrote:
<quoted text>
The complexity of the axial motor and its appearance as the very first primorial cell controverts your assumed age model, admit it! Slow down and think about this thing, to evolve it mindlessly with no plan or guidance exposes the entire notion of evolution.
How many mutations would it take to get this right even if every one was a perfect jackpot every throw? Maybe a million? More?
Let's start with just one proton energized micro-stator coil,(you need 11 identical one's they know of), then a connection to each X 11, then a minor little item remains, a proton modulator/controller, controller because you need to stop and vari the proton bias to each coil and reverse them also! Your clock God must have been busy! I forgot, now we must sequence the proton bias at the exact right time in fractions of a millisecond to each of these 11 stators to get it to spin. That’s just the stators, you need complementary components in the rotor, each with the correct polarization to provide torque. But wait, these parts are spinning, so they need to maintain a charge somehow, but you know - time did it, it just charged all these rotor segments perfectly! Pretty good for thoughtless mindlessness. Now the fixed and spinning structures have nm bushing clearances that somehow mutated perfectly circular parts that are floating! That’s right boys, the rotor and tail are connected to exactly nothing, but your time God is good, so presto there you have it, a whopping evolutionary marvel! So you believe these stories but in the same breath consider a 747 forming out of junk ridiculous. Help me here..
http://www.genesisalive.com/2013/10/evolution...
Double PhD Denton comments on the motor;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =TMoWfPn2pCIXX
Motor at work;
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
I didn't know Denton had a second PhD. Too bad he didn't use either of them or his MD for the video. Basically all he says is I don't understand how this could work, so it must be this way by supernatural forces. He leaves out everything we know to draw this conclusion. He is a smart guy, it is sad to see someone of his intelligence give up so easily.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#103752 Oct 28, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Hadn't seen the 'flu one, but I did notice the dengue one. That's a serious concern down here.
I must admit, I haven't read them yet, but I just found them today, or by now yesterday.

In answer to the questions of our dominance that were posed on this forum recently, I think we may very well be, but only at the leisure of the microbial world and once in a while, they have to remind us who is boss.

SBT
Level 2

Since: Jun 13

United States

#103753 Oct 28, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>I didn't know Denton had a second PhD. Too bad he didn't use either of them or his MD for the video. Basically all he says is I don't understand how this could work, so it must be this way by supernatural forces. He leaves out everything we know to draw this conclusion. He is a smart guy, it is sad to see someone of his intelligence give up so easily.
I missed your explanation on how evolution made this motor and where the additional data came from, or where the intermediate forms are found or where evolution in bacteria is adding parts like this today or a mechanism or the science relative to the matter here? Without these i'm just wrong because i'm not an evolution believer? Till then I will live in my bliss.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#103754 Oct 28, 2013
SBT wrote:
<quoted text>
The complexity of the axial motor and its appearance as the very first primorial cell controverts your assumed age model, admit it! Slow down and think about this thing, to evolve it mindlessly with no plan or guidance exposes the entire notion of evolution.
How many mutations would it take to get this right even if every one was a perfect jackpot every throw? Maybe a million? More?
Let's start with just one proton energized micro-stator coil,(you need 11 identical one's they know of), then a connection to each X 11, then a minor little item remains, a proton modulator/controller, controller because you need to stop and vari the proton bias to each coil and reverse them also! Your clock God must have been busy! I forgot, now we must sequence the proton bias at the exact right time in fractions of a millisecond to each of these 11 stators to get it to spin. That’s just the stators, you need complementary components in the rotor, each with the correct polarization to provide torque. But wait, these parts are spinning, so they need to maintain a charge somehow, but you know - time did it, it just charged all these rotor segments perfectly! Pretty good for thoughtless mindlessness. Now the fixed and spinning structures have nm bushing clearances that somehow mutated perfectly circular parts that are floating! That’s right boys, the rotor and tail are connected to exactly nothing, but your time God is good, so presto there you have it, a whopping evolutionary marvel! So you believe these stories but in the same breath consider a 747 forming out of junk ridiculous. Help me here..
http://www.genesisalive.com/2013/10/evolution...
Double PhD Denton comments on the motor;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =TMoWfPn2pCIXX
Motor at work;
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
You have completely ignored my posts that have shown you to be wrong, it is only fair that I ignore yours.

The flagellum is relatively simple. If you had read the article you would now that the steps necessary were less than fifty.

Is it any wonder that creatards like you are laughed at when they deny what has already been shown to be true?

“Commentaries”

Level 1

Since: Apr 08

Location hidden

#103755 Oct 28, 2013
In the beginning there was the void. And darkness covered the face of the earth. And God was the word. And the word said "Let there be light" and there was light. Then somewhere along the way Primordial Ooze was born.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#103756 Oct 28, 2013
SBT wrote:
<quoted text>
I missed your explanation on how evolution made this motor and where the additional data came from, or where the intermediate forms are found or where evolution in bacteria is adding parts like this today or a mechanism or the science relative to the matter here? Without these i'm just wrong because i'm not an evolution believer? Till then I will live in my bliss.
You missed it because I don't have one. I can admit that. You have to go to magic to explain it.

What I am still missing is the evidence you have that the flagellar motor is found on the primordial bacteria. I missed your evidence of the primordial bacteria.

You may note, that some bacteria possess a structure of similar but reduced complexity to the flagellar motor. What is it that you could call that reduced structure? It is right on the tip of my tongue. It is like in between, in the middle, or inter...something.

You are ignorant, because you talk about the deep time associated with evolution on one hand and then expect to see things just changing all over the place in human time. Apparently you aren't aware of the ridiculousness of those two opposing statements. We can see evolution, but only those completely unfamiliar with science would make silly statements like yours.

Let's revisit that evidence for your claims shall we. Pony up.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#103757 Oct 28, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
You have completely ignored my posts that have shown you to be wrong, it is only fair that I ignore yours.
The flagellum is relatively simple. If you had read the article you would now that the steps necessary were less than fifty.
Is it any wonder that creatards like you are laughed at when they deny what has already been shown to be true?
Sure, show me up with evidence of the development of the flagellar motor that I couldn't provide in my last post. I will have to look back at your post. I must have missed it.

Doesn't look good for SBT.

Get three coffins ready.

My mistake. Four coffins...

“Ask Randy From Ballwin”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

He Is A Sock Know It All

#103759 Oct 28, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/T9Q...
Tell me Chuckie doesn't say "the" and "only" in post #103533. Tell me ants are not a dominant species or that faith healers "stand a prayer" against any number of disease organisms.
Tell me that is the one Tike replied to! Oh that's right it isn't. So what was your point again?:-)

Level 5

Since: Apr 11

Los Angeles, CA

#103760 Oct 29, 2013
There is no real debate. The creation story in the bible is clearly a myth. Before the end of the first chapter we can dismiss it. The story has night and day before there is a sun. It also has plants growing before there is a sun.
Come on people, time to accept the Creation story is a myth written by ignorant Bronze Age goat herders. It's understandable that they didn't know moonlight is a reflection of sunlight, but how can you here, in the 21st Century be so ignorant?

“Ask Randy From Ballwin”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

He Is A Sock Know It All

#103761 Oct 29, 2013
Ok who is up for some questions?

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#103762 Oct 29, 2013
SBT wrote:
<quoted text>
All the lit on the Prokaryote show it with a flagella.
So from a picture you assume that all prokaryotes have one and that the earliest ones did? Even though biologists painstakingly point out that the flagellum has to be the result of multiple evolutionary steps over millions of years? Even though any biology book dealing with bacteria will doubtlessly show many pitures of bacteria with and without flagella?

I am sorry but the only words I can use to describe your claim is its bloody stupid. Very, very stupid. One of the dumbest creationist attempts at distorting what biologists claim yet, and these liars have tried just about everything.

If a representative picture of a mammal had a tail would that mean biologists assume all mammals have tails?

PS Denton is an evolutionist. Cheers.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#103763 Oct 29, 2013
Ok I take that back about Denton.

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