Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Read more
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#103147 Oct 25, 2013
SBT wrote:
I am nothing but an unworthy grafted weed.
Hot dayum, even a fundie can be correct twice a day. All you need to do now just tell us water is wet and you're done.

Praise the Lord.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#103148 Oct 25, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
The babble tells us a lot of things that can safely be ignored.
No dirt involved but chemical formulations and environmental conditions along with a considerable amount of luck in the makeup of our solar system, the positioning of earth and the gas giants. Muddy soup is the fundy way of looking at what they cannot hope to understand, I thought you past such ignorant statements. What would you expect all life in this universe to be formed from, elements not found in this universe? Doh…
The sun the moon and the earth were not created at the same time and most certainly not at the time of the big bang event.
BB about 13.7 billion years ago
Sun about 4.6 billion years ago
Earth a short time (in stellar terms) later but measured in millions of years
Moon, sometime after between 4.5 and 4.4 billion years ago,
Now a good babble scholar and apologist looking for loopholes would consider that to be around the same time. A scientist would consider it to be 2 x 10^8 years
The problem here is that the babble account and science do not agree when those biblical persons lived. The babble says together, science says several thousand years apart. So if the babble stores were true then can only assume that Eve was into some serious necrophilia and miracles can happen.
The statements are similar only if you are unwilling to see the glaring facts. The biblical accounts were written 4000+ years ago by escaped slaves and goat herders who had no hope of understanding the scientific, cosmological, astronomical, geological and biological processes involved and so made a best guess based on bronze age guesswork and you are following in their footsteps. Whereas the means to verify scientific accounts have only been around a couple of hundred years, however at least some have been known about since ancient Greek even Babylonian and Egyptian times.
And this is where it all falls over, you say “know”, you claim “truth” whereas what you really mean is you “hope” and you “believe” but you chose to hijack positive and for your purposes inaccurate terms and bastardise them to give more credibility to your faith. This is where I see the biggest lies of the religious.
Yes organic chemistry is organic chemistry, it is not goddidit by magic.
Adaptation to the environment is a huge factor to evolution. No god involved but you can of course adapt that scientific finding to you religion if it suites you.
PROPS!

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#103149 Oct 25, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
PROPS!
Thank you my dear. Oh poo the game is over… Never mind, thanks for the thought

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#103150 Oct 25, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
RT obviously has no inkling of the origins of both easter and christmas. Like so much else he is taking the biblical word for it without considering the facts.
I don't mind the seasonal chocolate bunnies and marshmallow snowmen, but why do we have still have to be subjected to fruitcakes and nutballs the rest of the year?

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#103151 Oct 25, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
So is sodium nitrate and that goes bang
Ammonium iodide, ammonium nitrate, sodium chlorate...

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#103152 Oct 25, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't mind the seasonal chocolate bunnies and marshmallow snowmen, but why do we have still have to be subjected to fruitcakes and nutballs the rest of the year?
It’s a christian tradition?

Since: Mar 11

Minnesota's North Coast

#103153 Oct 25, 2013
SBT wrote:
<quoted text>
And in his exile they say he washed his hands a thousand times a day.
You should try a copy of "The Evidence demands a Verdict" by Josh McDowell. He set out on a project to prove the New Testament in error, kindda went wrong - Josh has spoken to more youth than any other minister on the planet - about the proofs of Christ. But the rabble-rouser rose, and all 11 disciples gave their lives telling the world about Him. That's no cult lie.
telling different stories of his life depending on who they were selling it to..like all spin doctors,

they used jesus' life like a media soundbyte, but then he would have wanted that, a that was his purpose. he was no son of any god, the god you think he was the son of has been proven false.

you worship a false idol....

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#103154 Oct 25, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
It’s a christian tradition?
It's a christian affliction.

Since: Mar 11

Minnesota's North Coast

#103155 Oct 25, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't mind the seasonal chocolate bunnies and marshmallow snowmen, but why do we have still have to be subjected to fruitcakes and nutballs the rest of the year?
now that's funny!

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#103156 Oct 25, 2013
replaytime wrote:
The bible tells of how man was made from dirt. Dirt=the elements of our universe.
Science has a similar theory called abiogenesis. The muddy soup of elements.
It is agreed that all life is based on elements found in our universe.
The bible tells how the sun, earth and moon were all created around the same time.
Science has a similar theory called the BBT.
It is agreed that they were formed around the same time
The bible says we all descend from the same person/people.
Science says we all come from from the same organism/organisms.
It is agreed that we all decend from few things from the start.
The three statements above are very similar. The biggest difference is that they bible said those things 4-6 thousand years ago. Science has just been saying those for the past couple hundred years.
Those of us who believe in God know that God initiated the process. Those that don't believe in God, think it all just started randomly, by itself. So what? Their lack of faith in God doesn't change the facts of the matter. You can't argue with Organic Chemistry. It is what it is.
Once God created life, God also gave the ability to adapt to changing environments. Why wouldn't our wise Creator NOT give life the ability to adapt? Without adaption life would not be able to go on. Science calls that evolution. And for those who have been misled to believe that adaptation is somehow separate from evolution,,, that is a lie! Adaptation is PART of the process of evolution.
No, now you are making the classic Christian mistake of reinterpreting the Bible in light of our present day knowledge. Christians do that with quite a few other verses as well. They reinterpret the Bible to say the Earth is a sphere, when if you read the original and interpret it correctly it says that the Earth is a flat circle. They ignore the parts of the Bible that say the Earth does not move and try to reinterpret other verses that say it does move.

The Bible was written poetically and poetic language is always up to reinterpretation. At best you could say that the Bible may be interpreted many ways. You can never correctly claim nonsense on the order of "the Bible says the Earth and the Sun were created at roughly the same time". The Bible does not support that claim. You have to be both a literalist and a pragmatist at the same time to believe that nonsense. In other words you have to hold contradictory illogical ideas to support that claim.

Don't worry, Christians are not the only ones guilty of this sin. Muslims are past masters at reinterpreting their holy book too.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#103157 Oct 25, 2013
SBT wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe what the Bible teaches, as a Christian my ultimate source of truth about history and reality comes from there. I see a perfect fit now and more comes along every day. Understand it all? no. Take what Jesus says seriously,(like Noah or Jonah) absolutely. He said "not one stone will be left upon another, they will all be thrown down" and I go to Jerusalem and there off the corner of the Wailing Wall are temple blocks thrown off the mound. Not a Christian guide tells me this either. They mocked Him about that statement too, right? I was as big a evo believer as they come, when I accepted Christ in the back of that Twin Otter going home from a crash I gave it all up and boy did I get set straight, best decision I ever made. Respect Judaism, 1000%, they gave us the the Word of God and are specially protected and loved, God says so. I am nothing but an unworthy grafted weed. Was disgusted when Santa went away but still sleep with my fluffy Easter Bunny, you got me on that one.
We were not discussing an activity that was fairly common at that time for the Romans. The fact that they destroyed the major temple in Jerusalem is not really that strong of evidence. In those days if a religious group was giving the Romans grief they knew how to handle them.

We were discussing science and the belief in the Noah's Ark Myth is the same as believing in Santa Claus.

If Santa were real there would be evidence of his passing at hundreds of thousands of miles in the night sky. If the flood were real there would be evidence of 5 miles of water on the Earth.

“Don't be mad at me.”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

I'm just a little bunny.

#103158 Oct 25, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
No, now you are making the classic Christian mistake of reinterpreting the Bible in light of our present day knowledge. Christians do that with quite a few other verses as well. They reinterpret the Bible to say the Earth is a sphere, when if you read the original and interpret it correctly it says that the Earth is a flat circle. They ignore the parts of the Bible that say the Earth does not move and try to reinterpret other verses that say it does move.
The Bible was written poetically and poetic language is always up to reinterpretation. At best you could say that the Bible may be interpreted many ways. You can never correctly claim nonsense on the order of "the Bible says the Earth and the Sun were created at roughly the same time". The Bible does not support that claim. You have to be both a literalist and a pragmatist at the same time to believe that nonsense. In other words you have to hold contradictory illogical ideas to support that claim.
Don't worry, Christians are not the only ones guilty of this sin. Muslims are past masters at reinterpreting their holy book too.
When aimed at history, especially the history of the United States, it is revisionism. But it is the same thing that you mention.

“Ditat Deus”

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#103159 Oct 25, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
...the poor idiot
What a Maroon!
<scroll>

“Ditat Deus”

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#103160 Oct 25, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
Hey moron,
<scroll>

“If It Is Possible”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

It Will Likely Happen

#103161 Oct 25, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
No, now you are making the classic Christian mistake of reinterpreting the Bible in light of our present day knowledge. Christians do that with quite a few other verses as well. They reinterpret the Bible to say the Earth is a sphere, when if you read the original and interpret it correctly it says that the Earth is a flat circle. They ignore the parts of the Bible that say the Earth does not move and try to reinterpret other verses that say it does move.
The Bible was written poetically and poetic language is always up to reinterpretation. At best you could say that the Bible may be interpreted many ways. You can never correctly claim nonsense on the order of "the Bible says the Earth and the Sun were created at roughly the same time". The Bible does not support that claim. You have to be both a literalist and a pragmatist at the same time to believe that nonsense. In other words you have to hold contradictory illogical ideas to support that claim.
Don't worry, Christians are not the only ones guilty of this sin. Muslims are past masters at reinterpreting their holy book too.
Actually I am not reinterpreting. I am saying what they bible said 3-5 thousand years ago is similar to what science says today. As far as the flat earth as you claim so often, that is reinterpreting the Bible in light of our present day knowledge. They could not have known the earth was round and by looking out at the horizon it looks flat and that it ends. They also could not know the earth was a sphere either. The origin of the word sphere came around a couple thousand years later. As far as the bible saying the earth sun and moon were created around the same time, it says in seven days God created them all,,,pretty close to the same time

Show me any literature, from any culture, any person around the same time the bible started being written that said earth rotated and was a sphere. Oh wait you can't because back in those days they did not know.

“Ditat Deus”

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#103162 Oct 25, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
I know what evolution says and I don't dispute it. But you are talking about a story where it is claimed that the big guy modified it's behavior if not it's structure.
Genesis 3:14
"On your belly you shall go,
and you shall eat dust
All the days of your life."
So evolution wouldn't apply here now would it?
Only in that it's obvious that the Serpent wasn't a snake.

“Ditat Deus”

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#103163 Oct 25, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
"In some circumstances it can be safely assumed that if a certain event had occurred, evidence of it could be discovered by qualified investigators. In such circumstances it is perfectly reasonable to take the absence of proof of its occurrence as positive proof of its non-occurrence." - Irving Copi
A perfectly reasonable position to take.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irving_Copi
Thanks for sharing Irving's opinion.

“Ditat Deus”

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#103164 Oct 25, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
By R.R. "logic", it should be an intelligent legless reptile that digests dirt. To my knowledge such a critter does not exist, so it must not have been crafty or cunning enough to stow away on the ark, but I'm sure that they have an anatomically correct model of at least one at the Creation Museum. 0.o
ChromiuMan wrote:
an intelligent legless reptile that digests dirt. To my knowledge such a critter does not exists
O_o

Never heard of a worm?

No much for your 'superior intelligence'.

HA HA HA!!!!

“Ditat Deus”

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#103165 Oct 25, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
"Evolution teaches that all this complexity began with a light sensitive spot on a worm, and because it wanted to see, all the other parts just came to be, with time!"
And because it wanted to see???
Too funny.
Ya, evolution is funny that way.

Like how some fishies didn't want to live in the water no more, so they grew legs and skin and the right eyes and hair and lungs so they could live on land.

But some fishies decided it's cooler in the water.

And some of the land fishies decided it was better in the water so they regrew their fishie eyes and find and stuff but kept their lungs....

“Ditat Deus”

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#103166 Oct 25, 2013
The Dude wrote:

You mean that guy who wiped out the whole world? And will do so again and send all the non-believers to hell
That's right.

You've been warned.

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