Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story

“If It Is Possible”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

It Will Likely Happen

#101069 Oct 12, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Gyroscopic action.
Same as with a moving bicycle.
The Gyroscopic effect is just a small part of it.

A simple explanation does not seem possible because the lean and steer are coupled by a combination of several effects including gyroscopic precession, lateral ground-reaction forces at the front wheel ground contact point trailing behind the steering axis, the wheels being so narrow, gravity and inertial reactions from the front assembly having center-of-mass off of the steer axis, and from effects associated with the moment of inertia matrix of the front assembly. One also has to take in/consider centrifugal force and the castor effect.

Tick I would suggest you read up some before you respond to this.
Irish Bob

Plymouth, MA

#101070 Oct 12, 2013
After the Big Bang, the universe was sterile. SOMETHING happened to cause life to appear out of nothing.
YES, Something Happened.That's why we creationist believe in GOD.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#101071 Oct 12, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
OK you win, everything says that regardless the method employed
to initiate the lean in a curve, that counter steering occurs.
I can't argue with that, it just wasn't my intuition of it.
I felt the same way once.

The action is so deeply ingrained most of us don't even realize that we do it.

Creationists should note this. Aura has corrected me in the past. and provided evidence, I agreed that he was right. I corrected Aura this time. We both have learned because of each other.

He did not deny my sources since they went against his beliefs, I did not deny his sources since they went against my beliefs. We both have profited by this. Perhaps you could do the same.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#101072 Oct 12, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Gyroscopic action.
Same as with a moving bicycle.
Oh NOOOOOO!

I already went through this with Aura.

Nope, counter steering.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#101073 Oct 12, 2013
Irish Bob wrote:
After the Big Bang, the universe was sterile. SOMETHING happened to cause life to appear out of nothing.
YES, Something Happened.That's why we creationist believe in GOD.
Who says anything had to "cause" this? So far chemistry seems like it could do it on its own.

Since: Mar 11

Minnesota's North Coast

#101074 Oct 12, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
The Gyroscopic effect is just a small part of it.
A simple explanation does not seem possible because the lean and steer are coupled by a combination of several effects including gyroscopic precession, lateral ground-reaction forces at the front wheel ground contact point trailing behind the steering axis, the wheels being so narrow, gravity and inertial reactions from the front assembly having center-of-mass off of the steer axis, and from effects associated with the moment of inertia matrix of the front assembly. One also has to take in/consider centrifugal force and the castor effect.
Tick I would suggest you read up some before you respond to this.
yeah, the rest is the rider.. a bike won't stay up indefinitely without a rider...

Since: Mar 11

Minnesota's North Coast

#101075 Oct 12, 2013
Irish Bob wrote:
After the Big Bang, the universe was sterile. SOMETHING happened to cause life to appear out of nothing.
YES, Something Happened.That's why we creationist believe in GOD.
why would it have to be some god? what god do you have that hasn't been proven to be a fake myth? i don't believe any one has one of those yet...

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#101076 Oct 12, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>yes, no magic involved in how bicycles work...
I was actually mentioning what keeps a rolling coin upright.

It also helps moving bicycles do the same.

“If It Is Possible”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

It Will Likely Happen

#101077 Oct 12, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>yeah, the rest is the rider.. a bike won't stay up indefinitely without a rider...
But yet it will stay up quite a while with no rider. The part you seem to keep ignoring.

“If It Is Possible”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

It Will Likely Happen

#101078 Oct 12, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>why would it have to be some god? what god do you have that hasn't been proven to be a fake myth? i don't believe any one has one of those yet...
Not only stay up with out a rider, but correct itself, make turns, make jumps etc etc.

Since: Mar 11

Minnesota's North Coast

#101079 Oct 13, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Not only stay up with out a rider, but correct itself, make turns, make jumps etc etc.
a bike with no rider makes turns? you mean it may veer to one side and correct itself.

now it seems you are giving these riderless bikes intelligence...that's one hell of a gyroscopic effect...

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#101080 Oct 13, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Not only stay up with out a rider, but correct itself, make turns, make jumps etc etc.
Attack of the riderless bikes?
Like a bicycle stampede?

“What can I do to get the Topix”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

cops upset?

#101081 Oct 13, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text> a bike with no rider makes turns? you mean it may veer to one side and correct itself.
now it seems you are giving these riderless bikes intelligence...that's one hell of a gyroscopic effect...
The bike in that video was on a track. the track was going downhill. Gravity was keeping it rolling so it was maintaining speed even without a rider. No intelligence necessary and I think any pseudo-corrections were the result of the track and gravity.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#101082 Oct 13, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>The bike in that video was on a track. the track was going downhill. Gravity was keeping it rolling so it was maintaining speed even without a rider. No intelligence necessary and I think any pseudo-corrections were the result of the track and gravity.
Some grocery carts seem to come alive in the parking lot, but we know it's just gravity and wind. I saw one head down the parking lot zig zaging, going over bumps stopping a few times, but eventually made it to the street. Then proceeded to go down it, I wasn't ready to declare it a new life form...lol

“What can I do to get the Topix”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

cops upset?

#101083 Oct 13, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> Some grocery carts seem to come alive in the parking lot, but we know it's just gravity and wind. I saw one head down the parking lot zig zaging, going over bumps stopping a few times, but eventually made it to the street. Then proceeded to go down it, I wasn't ready to declare it a new life form...lol
Yes, they do seem to "know" where they are going. I saw a furniture dolly roll away, make a perfect left turn and then head straight for a car one time. It was as if it had targeted the car and gone right for it.

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#101084 Oct 13, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh NOOOOOO!
I already went through this with Aura.
Nope, counter steering.
If you push a bike, it will say upright for a time because of gyroscopic effects and the caster of the front wheel. If you cancel out the caster and gyroscope, it's not a mystery that it will stay upright for a (shorter) time. It is simply Newton's first law of motion working on both the vertical and horizontal axes. It will maintain direction through inertia and will remain upright until it leans far enough off its center for gravity to pull it over. Asymmetric drag on the front wheel will be the primary cause of instability. If you mounted a modified bicycle frame (changing the head tube angle to 90 degrees from horizontal) on short narrow runners and gave it a shove on ice you would see precisely the results you should expect.
Irish Bob

Plymouth, MA

#101085 Oct 13, 2013
To all you evolutionist's.
My beliefe in God is threw Nature. If i was to look at man and his corrupution of ideology, then i would be like most here that God is a man made creation. But nature teaches me that God is the only answer to explain the balence of things in nature. The bible in it self doesn't teach me that God is real. Expecially the O T. To believe that nature came into existence by chemical formation over thousands of years is ludicious. As a tech guy, that's like teaching kids that a computer all of a sudden came into it's own. A cell phone came into it's own..This stupidity of thought just doesn't compute in a intelligent mind. I don't look at man and say that he is here because of a God. I look into nature that tell's me, that God is real and i respect every thing i see that inforces that belief.

“What can I do to get the Topix”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

cops upset?

#101086 Oct 13, 2013
Irish Bob wrote:
To all you evolutionist's.
My beliefe in God is threw Nature. If i was to look at man and his corrupution of ideology, then i would be like most here that God is a man made creation. But nature teaches me that God is the only answer to explain the balence of things in nature. The bible in it self doesn't teach me that God is real. Expecially the O T. To believe that nature came into existence by chemical formation over thousands of years is ludicious. As a tech guy, that's like teaching kids that a computer all of a sudden came into it's own. A cell phone came into it's own..This stupidity of thought just doesn't compute in a intelligent mind. I don't look at man and say that he is here because of a God. I look into nature that tell's me, that God is real and i respect every thing i see that inforces that belief.
Meaningless and circular. I think the natural world is wonderful, but it is wishful thinking to see more in it than is there. My belief, is belief and not the same as the facts I accept from science.

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#101087 Oct 13, 2013
Irish Bob wrote:
To all you evolutionist's.
My beliefe in God is threw Nature. If i was to look at man and his corrupution of ideology, then i would be like most here that God is a man made creation. But nature teaches me that God is the only answer to explain the balence of things in nature. The bible in it self doesn't teach me that God is real. Expecially the O T. To believe that nature came into existence by chemical formation over thousands of years is ludicious. As a tech guy, that's like teaching kids that a computer all of a sudden came into it's own. A cell phone came into it's own..This stupidity of thought just doesn't compute in a intelligent mind. I don't look at man and say that he is here because of a God. I look into nature that tell's me, that God is real and i respect every thing i see that inforces that belief.
I don't usually harp on grammar and spelling, but damn. Never mind the vacuous content, this one is hard on the eyes.
Justice LRS

Shreveport, LA

#101088 Oct 13, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>I know how they are steering.
And yes you are arguing like a creationist. You have supplied no real evidence that supports your claims. The videos you have supplied are not clear enough to show a lack of countersteering. See if you can find any sort of scientific or official paper on the subject. Even no handed steering is done with countersteering.
It is a subtle but extremely important part of starting a turn. To start any turn on a bike the first motion is a countersteering motion.
I have seen biker after biker make your claim, but when push comes to shove they all realize that turns are started by contersteering.
Most aren't even aware they are counter-steering. I've ridden since I was 10, about forty years worth, and I can say this; if you're not counter-steering, you're about to end up on your face. If I'm going through a right-hand turn, my right arm is pushing on the right bar, or counter-steering. Otherwise, the front wheel will drive itself into the pavement. What gets me is the gyroscopic effect when first leaving, say for example, a stop sign. The bike has a natural tendency to "wobble" a touch before it finds its balance. I do leave cleanly sometimes but a slight wobble is the usual. I'm on a sportbike, not an 800lb. cruiser.

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