Evolution vs. Creation

There are 20 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Lakeland, FL

#101022 Oct 12, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>great! thank you for making me realize, once again, how little i know about where theoretical physics is taking us these days...
One is glad to be of service.

:-)

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#101023 Oct 12, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
One is glad to be of service.
:-)
I was happy that i at least understood the broad themes of his musical discourse...

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#101024 Oct 12, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
This article is low speed , and talking about driving in traffic.
I acknowledged that counter steering works at low speed.
No, even at high speed you countersteer.

It is much more subtle, but the action is still there. There is no speed where you do not countersteer first to go into a corner, and the article was also about why at high speeds people often crash in an emergency because they do not countersteer.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#101025 Oct 12, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
You can really tell when shifting to opposite turns , it's more fluid, and no room for counter steering.
Wrong, the coutnersteer gets to be instinctual and is very very subtle. The higher the speed the more subtle it is, but it is still there.

Here is another article on countersteering by a group that modified a bike to show they are not only body steered:

http://www.superbikeschool.com/machinery/no-b...

Remember at any speed a bicycle is still an inverted pendulum. The second article I linked explained it very well. If you put an upside down broom on your palm and want to go right you first must get the head of the broom to fall to the right, you do that by moving left, momentarily. Once the broom has fallen of to the right a bit you can balance that fall by the centripetal force of the turn.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#101026 Oct 12, 2013
One question, who is the moron that does not like my posts, but is too chicken to respond to them?

I don't mind if someone does not like what I say, I would only like to know why they don't like it.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Lakeland, FL

#101027 Oct 12, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
One question, who is the moron that does not like my posts, but is too chicken to respond to them?
I don't mind if someone does not like what I say, I would only like to know why they don't like it.
Why? Simple. You're intelligent, educated and not a fundie.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#101028 Oct 12, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> The bible never supported the idea of a flat earth. Without any arguments the bible in the book of Isaiah, Job supported a round earth.
Nope, actually the Bible supports a flat Earth, a round Earth, AND a square Earth. But hey, that's what you get when you combine a disparate group of ignorant goatherders who don't know anything about reality and tell them to keep tacking things on at the end.(shrug)
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#101029 Oct 12, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Keep on chewing your cud. Many nations of the earth who were into idol worshipping, are predominantly christians today.
Really? Since most people who think like you are idol worshippers. They worship a book about God instead of worshipping God.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#101030 Oct 12, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
One question, who is the moron that does not like my posts, but is too chicken to respond to them?
I don't mind if someone does not like what I say, I would only like to know why they don't like it.
Probably Chuck.

Either him or that new sockpuppet from the esteemed educational facility at Corpus Christi who knows we're all wrong but can't articulate why.

“ Knight Of Hyrule”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#101031 Oct 12, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
No, even at high speed you countersteer.
It is much more subtle, but the action is still there. There is no speed where you do not countersteer first to go into a corner, and the article was also about why at high speeds people often crash in an emergency because they do not countersteer.
People often crash because there's no room to avoid the crash.
But that really doesn't have anything to do with it, it's telling you how to avoid an impact in a traffic situation. Not how you steer in high speed turning. You can see it in the race , First the rider centers his weight on the pegs , then leans into the turn, when successive opposite turns are made they shift weight from side to side. There is no room for counter steering. What we are talking about is turning the bike at angles against the turn, which is shifting it center of gravity from side to side.
And you're telling me the only way to do it is to counter steer.
I'm telling you you're wrong, and I can prove it.



http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#101032 Oct 12, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
People often crash because there's no room to avoid the crash.
But that really doesn't have anything to do with it, it's telling you how to avoid an impact in a traffic situation. Not how you steer in high speed turning. You can see it in the race , First the rider centers his weight on the pegs , then leans into the turn, when successive opposite turns are made they shift weight from side to side. There is no room for counter steering. What we are talking about is turning the bike at angles against the turn, which is shifting it center of gravity from side to side.
And you're telling me the only way to do it is to counter steer.
I'm telling you you're wrong, and I can prove it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =NCU25CdVf4oXX
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
How are those videos supposed to prove anything?

I am sorry but you are arguing like a creationist on this issue.

There is a reason that I challenged you to find an article that supports your beliefs. The reason is the same as when I challenge creationists to show evidence for their claims.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#101033 Oct 12, 2013
By the way, if you are changing from one turn to another you are already countersteering by definition.

What some bikers do unfortunately in emergency situations is to turn the bike to the left when they want to go left without countersteering to the right first. At speeds the motion is subtle, it becomes an automatic part of setting up a turn. I found several articles on why countersteering is a must. Some from motorcycle safety organizations. I have not seen any that claim you can turn without countersteering.

“If It Is Possible”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

It Will Likely Happen

#101034 Oct 12, 2013
WOW after two days you all are still going on about the bicycle! We all think we know the simplest things but in reality we really donít.

Though there are many theories, the fact is it is not entirely known how the bicycle works. You can argue all you want but science does not exactly know how the bicycle works.

"A simple explanation does not seem possible because the lean and steer are coupled by a combination of several effects including gyroscopic precession, lateral ground-reaction forces at the front wheel ground contact point trailing behind the steering axis, the wheels being so narrow, gravity and inertial reactions from the front assembly having center-of-mass off of the steer axis, and from effects associated with the moment of inertia matrix of the front assembly"

With that said here are a few link about bikes and the "we donít know"

http://www.newstatesman.com/2013/07/mysteries...

http://enlighteneddeepness.wordpress.com/bicy...

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#101035 Oct 12, 2013
And Aura, I am not the one using judgeits on you.

I think it may be the same one that was trolling me with judgeits.

“If It Is Possible”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

It Will Likely Happen

#101036 Oct 12, 2013
Ok new subject. Science does not know exactly why ice is slippery. Who is going to be first to tackle this one?

“ Knight Of Hyrule”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#101037 Oct 12, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
How are those videos supposed to prove anything?
I am sorry but you are arguing like a creationist on this issue.
There is a reason that I challenged you to find an article that supports your beliefs. The reason is the same as when I challenge creationists to show evidence for their claims.
They are steering by shifting weight, this is a small degree of the large weight shifts you can do standing on the pegs.
What you are talking about, is using the momentum of the bike by counter steering. I'm telling you you can do the same thing by shifting your mass alone. I'm not arguing like a creationist.
I'm telling you how I learned to ride. You are telling me it's impossible, but I just showed you steering can be done to a small degree without using the bars at all, but by shifting weight.
And that shifting weight alot will do the same thing as counter steering, which is simply changing the bikes center of gravity to your advantage. You then counter steer to get even tighter angles
between you and the road. Besides the fact we aren't arguing , we are debating and have a difference of opinion. That's all heheheh.


“If It Is Possible”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

It Will Likely Happen

#101038 Oct 12, 2013
Oh no!!! I as well have been attacked by the negative judgit troll. LOL It always happen on a thread where a certain someone hangs out in. It is kind of like a pesky tick bite <<< hint hint. lol

“ Knight Of Hyrule”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#101039 Oct 12, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
And Aura, I am not the one using judgeits on you.
I think it may be the same one that was trolling me with judgeits.
I only know it isn't me.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#101040 Oct 12, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> They are steering by shifting weight, this is a small degree of the large weight shifts you can do standing on the pegs.
What you are talking about, is using the momentum of the bike by counter steering. I'm telling you you can do the same thing by shifting your mass alone. I'm not arguing like a creationist.
I'm telling you how I learned to ride. You are telling me it's impossible, but I just showed you steering can be done to a small degree without using the bars at all, but by shifting weight.
And that shifting weight alot will do the same thing as counter steering, which is simply changing the bikes center of gravity to your advantage. You then counter steer to get even tighter angles
between you and the road. Besides the fact we aren't arguing , we are debating and have a difference of opinion. That's all heheheh.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =3OBn2jyEREEXX
I know how they are steering.

And yes you are arguing like a creationist. You have supplied no real evidence that supports your claims. The videos you have supplied are not clear enough to show a lack of countersteering. See if you can find any sort of scientific or official paper on the subject. Even no handed steering is done with countersteering.

It is a subtle but extremely important part of starting a turn. To start any turn on a bike the first motion is a countersteering motion.

I have seen biker after biker make your claim, but when push comes to shove they all realize that turns are started by contersteering.

“ Knight Of Hyrule”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#101041 Oct 12, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>I know how they are steering.
And yes you are arguing like a creationist. You have supplied no real evidence that supports your claims. The videos you have supplied are not clear enough to show a lack of countersteering. See if you can find any sort of scientific or official paper on the subject. Even no handed steering is done with countersteering.
It is a subtle but extremely important part of starting a turn. To start any turn on a bike the first motion is a countersteering motion.
I have seen biker after biker make your claim, but when push comes to shove they all realize that turns are started by contersteering.
It is also important to distinguish between counter steering as a physical phenomenon and deliberate countersteering as a conscious rider technique for initiating a lean (the usual interpretation of the term). The physical phenomenon always occurs in any cornering manoeuvre at more than walking pace and is also evident in situations where the bike and rider compensate for some outside influence such as an opportune side wind, although at low speeds it can be lost or hidden in the minute corrections made to maintain balance. The technique of exploiting the physical phenomenon by deliberately countering the steering is achieved by applying a steering torque in the opposite direction of the road curve. For example, if a turn to the left is desired, it is started by an applying a torque on the handlebars to the right. It is important to note that the rider is not causing counter steering, merely initiating it at a time of their choosing. Another way to cause the bike and rider to lean is by applying appropriate torques between the bike and rider similar to the way a gymnast can swing up from hanging straight down on uneven parallel bars, a person can start swinging on a swing from rest by pumping their legs, or a double inverted pendulum can be controlled with an actuator only at the elbow.[5]

*At the same time, the rider technique of applying pressure to the handlebars to initiate a lean is not always necessary, since, on a sufficiently light bike (especially a bicycle), the rider can initiate a lean and turn by shifting body weight, called counter-lean by some authors.[6][7][8] Documented physical experimentation shows that on heavy bikes (many motorcycles) shifting body weight is less effective at initiating leans.[9]

***This technique works by employing the natural tendency of most bikes to steer towards the direction they are leaned and is different from the acrobatic maneuver described above. Note that when applying a counter-lean technique, the counter steering as a physical phenomenon still occurs, the manner in which it is initiated by the rider is different.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countersteering

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