Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 222984 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#100715 Oct 9, 2013
SCOUSE71UK wrote:
Scientific law- something that has been proven correct and true numerous times
Scientific theory- a guess/belief that something is true, not necessarily correct, some people may support it, others not.

Need I say more?
you write:
"a guess/belief that something is true, not necessarily correct, some people may support it, others not."

Actually what you are describing here is a perfect description of religious belief.

No, you really don't need to say more....you have already proven how inadequate your logical abilities and grasp of reality is.

Belief in something that hasn't a shred of proof to back that belief is just plain crazy.

Gravity is 'just' a theory too.

So is germ theory.
spOko

Oakland, CA

#100716 Oct 9, 2013
SCOUSE71UK wrote:
Scientific law- something that has been proven correct and true numerous times
Scientific theory- a guess/belief that something is true, not necessarily correct, some people may support it, others not.
Need I say more?
No, please don't because you are incorrect!!

“Good day to you!”

Level 2

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#100717 Oct 9, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Here are you a couple more links to that and other things.
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread669...
http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/list/7523...
Photos are great in the first link. In the second of the gold plane like piece, I read an article a long while back of some scientists looking an area over where they believed revealed the Mayan's knew of gliders. I'll have to research it and see what I find.
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#100718 Oct 9, 2013
SCOUSE71UK wrote:
Scientific law- something that has been proven correct and true numerous times
Like Newton's LAW of gravity.
SCOUSE71UK wrote:
Scientific theory- a guess/belief that something is true, not necessarily correct, some people may support it, others not.
Like Einstein's THEORY of Relativity. Which actually replaces Newton's model due to it being more accurate. And this in turn is being overturned by quantum physics.

Oops!

Of course in the REAL world "laws" are nothing more than ideals of what we humans think the world should be like. Like Newton's so-called "laws" of gravity, which unfortunately couldn't quite account for the motions of Mercury, while Einstein's THEORY could. Of course if laws worked the way YOU thought they did that would mean no-one has ever robbed a bank.

In science, scientific THEORIES rank HIGHER than "laws". And if anything, theories CONTAIN laws, usually a number of them, and an explanatory framework is built around those laws and facts and pieces of evidence.

So let's take a look at things as if they were the way you described them:
SCOUSE71UK wrote:
Scientific law- something that has been proven correct and true numerous times
This would (under your definitions) make evolution a "law".
SCOUSE71UK wrote:
Scientific theory- a guess/belief that something is true, not necessarily correct, some people may support it, others not.
This would (under your definitions) make creationism (a completely and utterly non-scientific concept supported by zero evidence) a "theory".
SCOUSE71UK wrote:
Need I say more?
Nope. You have masterfully demonstrated that you quite simply do not have the slightest clue what you're talking about.

You sure you didn't go to Bluecoats?

:-/
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#100719 Oct 9, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Photos are great in the first link. In the second of the gold plane like piece, I read an article a long while back of some scientists looking an area over where they believed revealed the Mayan's knew of gliders. I'll have to research it and see what I find.
Well I'm sure with your sources your research will be most valuable!

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#100720 Oct 9, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Photos are great in the first link. In the second of the gold plane like piece, I read an article a long while back of some scientists looking an area over where they believed revealed the Mayan's knew of gliders. I'll have to research it and see what I find.
I'd recommend not bothering.

That's that halfwit von Daniken - he also claimed that he had photographic evidence of a UFO landing area which turned out to be less thsn six feet across.

He's been totally debunked.

“Good day to you!”

Level 2

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#100721 Oct 9, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Wait a second. I thought you were just another science denying creatard.
So exactly what are your beliefs.
I can't answer that with exactness. I know the evolution of this planet is real. But I also see evidence for the possibility that a higher intelligence exists. But I can't lay the two together to make sense of anything like most.
There is so much evidence of evolution but so many unanswered questions.
I believe if we are truly of this planet and not a higher intelligence, our mentality right now today should mirror other species on this earth that have been here longer than humans and they should have been the first to evolve a brain for higher thinking before us. We should be the pet so to speak. And we aren't. The higher thinking we have wasn't passed down to us by any other species. Not a single one. We should still be hairy and naked and living in trees and caves and such. Our specie's personal mental progress should still be matching that of the great ape, gorilla, monkey or dolphin etc.
There is no rational explanation why our one single specie of billions that have been and are on this planet, there is no rational explanation why our brain evolved and no other specie did the same.
There's no rational explanation for why this earth lays where it does in orbit so that life flourishes and it didn't happen to another planet in another solar system as far as we know of.
Personally, the idea that I die and become nothing is depressing. The thought that I die and go on to live isn't depressing so not knowing which will happen, I'll take the more less depressing train of thought :)

“ad victoriam”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#100722 Oct 9, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>I'd recommend not bothering.
That's that halfwit von Daniken - he also claimed that he had photographic evidence of a UFO landing area which turned out to be less thsn six feet across.
He's been totally debunked.
Maybe it was tiny Elvis?.
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#100723 Oct 9, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
He's been totally debunked.
You do know that to fundies and other fellow cranks this means he's a fantastic source?

“Good day to you!”

Level 2

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#100724 Oct 9, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Links to what you are talking about?
There has been so many different forms of life is it surprising if an imagined animal has some similarities to existing or past animals?
There are stone reliefs of what 'looks' like a modern day elephant. In many reliefs you'll see what 'appears' to resemble a trunk, big ears and tusks. Skeptics claim their exaggerated reliefs of toucans. Well maybe for some with just a trunk I could agree. But the others carved to look like an elephant head you can't do a toucan explanation.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#100725 Oct 9, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
I can't answer that with exactness. I know the evolution of this planet is real. But I also see evidence for the possibility that a higher intelligence exists. But I can't lay the two together to make sense of anything like most.
There is so much evidence of evolution but so many unanswered questions.
I believe if we are truly of this planet and not a higher intelligence, our mentality right now today should mirror other species on this earth that have been here longer than humans and they should have been the first to evolve a brain for higher thinking before us. We should be the pet so to speak. And we aren't. The higher thinking we have wasn't passed down to us by any other species. Not a single one. We should still be hairy and naked and living in trees and caves and such. Our specie's personal mental progress should still be matching that of the great ape, gorilla, monkey or dolphin etc.
There is no rational explanation why our one single specie of billions that have been and are on this planet, there is no rational explanation why our brain evolved and no other specie did the same.
There's no rational explanation for why this earth lays where it does in orbit so that life flourishes and it didn't happen to another planet in another solar system as far as we know of.
Personally, the idea that I die and become nothing is depressing. The thought that I die and go on to live isn't depressing so not knowing which will happen, I'll take the more less depressing train of thought :)
what is this evidence for a higher intelligence?

our intelligence does mimic that of other primates...the innate fear of reptiles is a good example...
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#100726 Oct 9, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
I can't answer that with exactness. I know the evolution of this planet is real. But I also see evidence for the possibility that a higher intelligence exists. But I can't lay the two together to make sense of anything like most.
There is so much evidence of evolution but so many unanswered questions.
I believe if we are truly of this planet and not a higher intelligence, our mentality right now today should mirror other species on this earth that have been here longer than humans and they should have been the first to evolve a brain for higher thinking before us.
Why? Oh yeah, you still think evolution means to develop towards a goal.
No Surprise wrote:
We should be the pet so to speak. And we aren't.
Actually we are. Fleas. Viruses. Cats. We are the beeyach.
No Surprise wrote:
The higher thinking we have wasn't passed down to us by any other species. Not a single one.
Actually it WAS. That IS how evolution works. We weren't given special brains by the lizard people of Rigel XII.

Of course you are not in any way influenced by massive ego, are you?
No Surprise wrote:
We should still be hairy and naked and living in trees and caves and such. Our specie's personal mental progress should still be matching that of the great ape, gorilla, monkey or dolphin etc.
Dolphins may even be smarter than us.

By the way, in order to survive in the jungle those naked hairy apes don't need anything else. We need clothes, knives, sleeping bags, tents, boots, packaged food, cellphone to call up the chopper to get out of there when things get hot, and mobile solar panel to charge it with.
No Surprise wrote:
There is no rational explanation why our one single specie of billions that have been and are on this planet, there is no rational explanation why our brain evolved and no other specie did the same.
They did do the same. All brains are as evolved as each other. There is no such thing as "more evolved".
No Surprise wrote:
There's no rational explanation for why this earth lays where it does in orbit so that life flourishes and it didn't happen to another planet in another solar system as far as we know of.
Shows you how far behind the times you are since planets at habitable distance from their respective suns are COMMON throughout the galaxy.
No Surprise wrote:
Personally, the idea that I die and become nothing is depressing.
Don't worry, you will become wormfood and the atoms that make up your body will become a part of it.

In short you will live on.

Reincarnated as a worm.

And then get eaten by a bird.

And then get eaten by other humans at thanksgiving.

Amazing, isn't it?
No Surprise wrote:
The thought that I die and go on to live isn't depressing so not knowing which will happen, I'll take the more less depressing train of thought :)
Your desires do not get to shape reality. Unfortunately in your case they severely impede your education.

“Good day to you!”

Level 2

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#100727 Oct 9, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
True? So where your evidence?
I have stated before that the planet has not suffered a global flood since man has walked the earth.*THAT* is true. Now you want to weasel out of your claims by ignoring the time frame as stated.
<quoted text>
I disagreed with your statement that the earth can do anything. It cannot. That's childish nonsense.
<quoted text>
The rest of us? The rest of us is the scientific community. The rest of you are the fruitcakes of the world who think anything is possible.
<quoted text>
I don't give a flying f**k what you believe however stupid it may be. But when you start spouting off bullshit with your imagined air of authority, I'm going to call you out on it.
And, by the way, your last paragraph was no more than projection. Get a grip.
lol...I didn't weasel out of anything. I never said I agreed with the Biblical time frame for a global flood. You ASSUME I agreed with such a time frame and I haven't. You don't read what I write. You do inject things I haven't stated and you should quit, stick with what I actually stated, just saying.
I know you disagree that the earth can do whatever it will. You're a loony that has a belief that the earth is restricted in how it shapes and reshapes itself and how it's helped in it's shaping by outside forces like comets and asteroids. I will continue to believe the evidence that the earth can do what it already has done which proves it can do anything it will when it does it.

“Good day to you!”

Level 2

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#100728 Oct 9, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's cut to the chase. In your opinion, is the biblical story of Noah's flood true. Yes or no.
Logically no.

“Good day to you!”

Level 2

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#100729 Oct 9, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's cut to the chase. In your opinion, is the biblical story of Noah's flood true. Yes or no.
On the other hand according to existing evidence that life exists no where else as we exist, logic says we shouldn't exist but we do :)

“Good day to you!”

Level 2

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#100730 Oct 9, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
So you can't counter what I posted. As usual. Just saying.
Don't like the mirror image eh?
First prove that I believe a global flood took place when then the story in the Bible states it did.
When you prove that about me, than state something for me to counter as a creationist would....waiting....

“Good day to you!”

Level 2

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#100731 Oct 9, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
No research is necessary. You have no credibility.
lol....I have no credibility? You're the one that states THEY KNOW what the earth can do and what it can't do geologically and you claim I have no credibility! Too fricking funny dude really! lol.....
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#100732 Oct 9, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
lol...I didn't weasel out of anything. I never said I agreed with the Biblical time frame for a global flood. You ASSUME I agreed with such a time frame and I haven't. You don't read what I write.
You don't read what he writes. The Biblical timeframe is irrelevant. It doesn't matter when you say it happened, it never did. UNLESS it happened in a RADICALLY different manner (ie: much more calm way so as not to incinerate the Earth), which did not occur while mammals were on the planet.
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#100733 Oct 9, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
On the other hand according to existing evidence that life exists no where else as we exist
There is no such existing evidence.
No Surprise wrote:
logic says we shouldn't exist but we do :)
Since we DO exist logic says we SHOULD exist.

But you ain't using logic.(shrug)
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#100734 Oct 9, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
lol....I have no credibility? You're the one that states THEY KNOW what the earth can do and what it can't do geologically and you claim I have no credibility! Too fricking funny dude really! lol.....
Yup, physicists and geologists do have an idea of the characteristics of the Earth, affects of physical forces and limitations of those effects.

This is why science works.

Meanwhile you're saying humans were made more cosmically special because Von Daniken.

It is fairly safe to say that you're not quite of this reality.

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