Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#100496 Oct 4, 2013
Still no questions?

Remember my claim was that the whole Earth has not been underwater for over a billion years?

I was not taking about the earliest rocks, though I will be happy to discuss those too.

How do we know that there was no world wide flood? Because we can find sandstones, siltstones, and shales being deposited during that whole period. For them to be deposited they have to be being currently eroded. The presence of those is proof positive that there were land masses.

Now of course for the mythological flood of the Bible you would need over 5 miles of water besides what we already have.
EXPERT

Redding, CA

#100497 Oct 4, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
This I find hilarious,“clueless troll” who then goes on to troll and troll and troll and troll
I have had godbots like you try to insult my intelligence before, and each and every time they have failed, and guess what, you are no exception
DNA is DNA, you moron. DNA is deoxyribonucleic acid that carries the genetic information in the cells of all organisms (except some viruses). It is not god magic and it is not irrelevant however inconvenient for you it is.
First, I am not trying to insult your intelligence, I am straight out questioning it!!!

Second, I have not invoked any God or deity. Fail!

I did not expect you would be willing to commit to that definition,
So to be clear, you claim that DNA carries (genetic information), right?
EXPERT

Redding, CA

#100498 Oct 4, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
I personally would not be looking for anything, I am not an archaeologist nor a scientist, nor have I studied the period more than a few glances during a couple of years in UNI as a second choice subject. However, all floods leave evidence, silt layers, plant remains, detritus etc and a global flood that resulted from such an amount of water and lasted for over a year (read the babble) would leave considerable evidence. NO SUCH EVIDENCE EXISTS
Great let us look at silt layers...

Where would you expect to find silt layers?

Does the rate of water flow effect the silt layers?
EXPERT

Redding, CA

#100499 Oct 4, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes I do know, my hobby is the Cro Magnon period so I do spend considerable time each year investigating (for personal enjoyment) fossil evidence and the geological column in southern France. I have recently returned from a holiday trip in which I investigated a Neanderthal gravesite that is dated 55,000 years old.
The evidence I would expect to see if a global flood had occurred is a silt layer on a global scale containing evidence (including fossils) of a mass extinction. NO SUCH EVIDENCE EXISTS
First, how was the dating done? What was dated, the cave or the fossils?

Next, what EVIDENCE would you expect to see if there was no flood? We would find all kinds of transitional fossils all over the place, but guess what? NO SUCH EVIDENCE EXISTS.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#100500 Oct 4, 2013
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>Great let us look at silt layers...
Where would you expect to find silt layers?
Does the rate of water flow effect the silt layers?
Flood deposits tend to be poorly sorted layers. Catastrophic floods can have conglomerates on down for deposits. The sediments will also tend to be rather angular.

Silt layers will be found in stream beds, deltas, and lowlands.
EXPERT

Redding, CA

#100501 Oct 4, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
This I find hilarious,“clueless troll” who then goes on to troll and troll and troll and troll
I have had godbots like you try to insult my intelligence before, and each and every time they have failed, and guess what, you are no exception
DNA is DNA, you moron. DNA is deoxyribonucleic acid that carries the genetic information in the cells of all organisms (except some viruses). It is not god magic and it is not irrelevant however inconvenient for you it is.
<quoted text>
I personally would not be looking for anything, I am not an archaeologist nor a scientist, nor have I studied the period more than a few glances during a couple of years in UNI as a second choice subject. However, all floods leave evidence, silt layers, plant remains, detritus etc and a global flood that resulted from such an amount of water and lasted for over a year (read the babble) would leave considerable evidence. NO SUCH EVIDENCE EXISTS
<quoted text>
Yes I do know, my hobby is the Cro Magnon period so I do spend considerable time each year investigating (for personal enjoyment) fossil evidence and the geological column in southern France. I have recently returned from a holiday trip in which I investigated a Neanderthal gravesite that is dated 55,000 years old.
The evidence I would expect to see if a global flood had occurred is a silt layer on a global scale containing evidence (including fossils) of a mass extinction. NO SUCH EVIDENCE EXISTS
<quoted text>
Yes they are based on fact, scientific fact. However you have made a claim that my calculations are not based of fact – PROVE IT you ignorant moron. Do you actually think I am as stupid as you and make things up because it suites my faith?
To measurable amounts in human terms the amount of water is more or less constant but it does increasing slightly over millennia as comets etc deposit more water on earth. However to create a global flood to the depth suggested in the babble, i.e. covering the highest mountain there would need to be more than 2,000,000,000 times more than has ever existed. Mathematical and scientific fact, accept it, live with it and continue to believe in magic and myth because you obviously have problems believing in fact
Sure I would be glad to prove it.

Just provide your mathematical calculations and I'll show you all the proof you want.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#100502 Oct 4, 2013
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>
First, how was the dating done? What was dated, the cave or the fossils?
Next, what EVIDENCE would you expect to see if there was no flood? We would find all kinds of transitional fossils all over the place, but guess what? NO SUCH EVIDENCE EXISTS.
What do you mean?

There are so many transitional fossils that almost all fossils are considered to be transitional, as long as they don't end in an extinction.

What do you expect a transitional fossil to look like?

Are you still pretending not to be a creationist.
EXPERT

Redding, CA

#100503 Oct 4, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
Still no questions?
Remember my claim was that the whole Earth has not been underwater for over a billion years?
Why do you want more question when you won't answer any I have asked so far?

Okay, he is an easy one.

I remember your claim was at one time the entire surface was covered with water.

Since you now state billions of years, did you want to offer a specific time in history when you claim the last time the entire surface was covered with water?
EXPERT

Redding, CA

#100504 Oct 4, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>Flood deposits tend to be poorly sorted layers. Catastrophic floods can have conglomerates on down for deposits. The sediments will also tend to be rather angular.
Silt layers will be found in stream beds, deltas, and lowlands.
Good, so why would this lead you to believe there was no evidence for a flood?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#100505 Oct 4, 2013
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you want more question when you won't answer any I have asked so far?
Okay, he is an easy one.
I remember your claim was at one time the entire surface was covered with water.
Since you now state billions of years, did you want to offer a specific time in history when you claim the last time the entire surface was covered with water?
No, you did not ask questions. You made idiotic statements.

And no moron, I did not say that the entire surface of the Earth was covered by water. I said in the last billion years it has not been.

You really have exceedingly poor reading comprehension. That might be part of your problem.

The entire face of the Earth may never have been covered in water. It is not really possible to tell. Very very early in the Earth's history there was no liquid water. The surface was too hot due to the accretion of meteorites. And then there was the late heavy bombardment that would have vaporized any ocean if one existed at that time.

At any rate the energy of an asteroid striking the Earth is much greater than just the energy of falling into Earth's gravity well. They also tend to be moving in or out of the Sun's gravity well and that is much bigger than the Earth's and a much bigger source of energy.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#100506 Oct 4, 2013
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>
Who told you this stuff?
Do you know where the oldest land mass is? If not, then why would you believe this?
I told you, it can be found in South Africa, Greenland , and Australia.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/...
EXPERT

Redding, CA

#100507 Oct 4, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
What do you mean?
There are so many transitional fossils that almost all fossils are considered to be transitional, as long as they don't end in an extinction.
What do you expect a transitional fossil to look like?
Are you still pretending not to be a creationist.
So you don't want to address the dating Issue, figures.

Since there are so many, this should be an easy one for you.
So you claim the first fossil was a transitional fossil?

And how many transitions did the sea horse go thru to it's current state?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#100508 Oct 4, 2013
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>
Good, so why would this lead you to believe there was no evidence for a flood?
Because most sediments are not flood sediments. Sandstones are very often well sorted and well rounded, definitely not flood sediments. Shales show extremely long term slow deposition, again, floods tend to be short termed. Limestones would not form in a flood at all and they are a healthy proportion of the sediments that we see. Actual flood sediments are probably less than 1% of all observed sediments.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#100509 Oct 4, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
I told you, it can be found in South Africa, Greenland , and Australia.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/...
Except those are not the oldest land masses. Those are some of the oldest indicators of life, not land. There are 4.1 billion year old granites in the Canadian shield, and those are continental, not oceanic rocks.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#100510 Oct 4, 2013
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>
So you don't want to address the dating Issue, figures.
Since there are so many, this should be an easy one for you.
So you claim the first fossil was a transitional fossil?
And how many transitions did the sea horse go thru to it's current state?
Can you not ask a question without looking like a complete fool?

There is no "dating Issue".

And yes, of course the first fossil is a transitional fossil. Do you even know what that term means?

Lastly I don't know how many "transitions" the seahorse had to go through. Technically every generation is a transition so if you can calculate the number of generations you can calculate the transitions.

You have a tendency to ask questions that show you have no education at all.

Here is the sort of question you are asking: Exactly how old were you when you were no longer a baby?

Can you answer that question?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#100511 Oct 4, 2013
Okay, I guess I will try to sleep again.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#100512 Oct 4, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Except those are not the oldest land masses. Those are some of the oldest indicators of life, not land. There are 4.1 billion year old granites in the Canadian shield, and those are continental, not oceanic rocks.
The Canadian find is oceanic rock.
It is literally the basaltic and some has other properties, but is the first crust that formed as the Earth cooled and water condensed creating the shallow seas. And greenstone

The deformed volcanic sequences that form greenstone belts in the Canadian Shield contain hyaloclastite and pillow lavas, indicating these areas were once below sea level and the lava was rapidly cooled underwater. Pillow lavas more than two billion years old indicate large submarine volcanoes existed during the early stages of the Earth's formation.[22]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volcanology_of_C...

The pillow lava pushed up the older oceanic crust in this case, the part we thought was gone forever from subduction.

http://all-geo.org/highlyallochthonous/2007/0...

The oldest rocks on Earth are 4.28 billion years old - the Nuvvuagittuq Greenstone Belt, exposed on the eastern shore of Hudson Bay, northern Quebec, Canada. With an age of about 4.28 billion years, it is the only portion of the Earth's crust known to have formed during the Hadean eon. In this greenstone belt the oldest dates came from rocks called "faux amphibolite," which are thought to be ancient volcanic deposits. These beat the previously oldest known rocks, which are about 4.03 billion years old and come from the Acasta Gneiss formation in Canada's Northwest Territories. The only older crustal material is from isolated mineral grains called zircons, which are highly resistant to weathering and geologic processes. The Nuvvuagittuq Greenstone Belt gives researchers a fresh perspective on the early separation of Earth's mantle from the crust. It is thought that a shallow ocean had already existed 300 million years after the Earth's formation. It raises puzzling questions as to ancient bacteria, as they are thought to be needed to precipitate iron availability for the formation of this type of rock. It might very well be that this rock may also contain traces of the oldest form of life in some way.

http://www.sciencemall-usa.com/nugrbe.html

Interesting that they think life maybe found in it too.



“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#100513 Oct 4, 2013
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>
First, I am not trying to insult your intelligence, I am straight out questioning it!!!
Second, I have not invoked any God or deity. Fail!
I did not expect you would be willing to commit to that definition,
So to be clear, you claim that DNA carries (genetic information), right?
Let me spell it out to you –“Another clueless troll...”– your words… If you cannot understand your deliberate insult then I feel sorry for you. But hey, you could very easily be a fundy christian and making such abusive and ignorant comments are just everyday talk for one of such belief.

You have no need to invoke any god, your post make your funnymentalist beliefs abundantly clear. Once again you are making the common fundy mistake of assuming that other people are as stupid as you. And then you act all innocent, shocked and surprised when it all comes back and kicks you in the teeth

I claim no such thing, the definition makes the claim, just because you don’t agree with the definition is no ones fault but your own.
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>Great let us look at silt layers...
Where would you expect to find silt layers?
Does the rate of water flow effect the silt layers?
I am not here to tech you archaeology, it is up to you to chose to educate yourself but I would suggest you look start in the geological column.

Again I am not here to teach you, this time fluid dynamics however are you suggesting that given water is self levelling and it is claimed that there was enough water to cover the earth to a depth greater than the highest mountain that world wide currents would ensure no silt layer would be deposited - anywhere? Go figure…
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>
First, how was the dating done? What was dated, the cave or the fossils?
Next, what EVIDENCE would you expect to see if there was no flood? We would find all kinds of transitional fossils all over the place, but guess what? NO SUCH EVIDENCE EXISTS.
I was not involved in the dating however it was done, as is usual, in several different ways (unlike the fundy belief that only one [estimated] dating method is used). Using both incremental and radiometric techniques on the fossils, the burial artefacts, the surrounding detritus accuracy can be better than 50 years in 50,000.

Who said it was a cave?

Wrong, ALL fossils are transitional, this is the very reason I study cro magnon, because they are 100% human and classified as modern human yet show marked differences in both skeletal structure and cranial capacity to humans of today. The skull I use as my avatar is one such example of what you claim does not exist, a transitional fossil. That my dear puts paid you your argument, however you could not possible consider that a fact because it screws up your belief that goddidit by magic one October day 6000 years ago so of course you are welcome to prove your ignorance by ignoring the fact.
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure I would be glad to prove it.
Just provide your mathematical calculations and I'll show you all the proof you want.
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/T9Q...

Based on figures supplied by science and the US government (but hey you could just as easily, without evidence of any sort claim them to be liars too, after all, you are christian and lying for your god is what christians are bets at)

Plus a few year 5 calculations of the volume of spheres.

Over to you…

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#100514 Oct 4, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
I know I am going to step on my own @ss here but hey, I don't care. For all we know these stories of a flood and such could have been around for 100's of thousands of years back when man/pre-man did not/could not write or kept track of days or years but yet passed on the stories down through the generations until they eventually learned to write and such. So when they learned to write and keep dates they may have been off by many years. None of us know or will ever know and if any one says the do for sure, they are liars, point blank period. Science is a good tool and has helped us in may ways but science itself is not free from fault. Back when Mt. St. Helens blew science dated a rock from that eruption at or over 150,000 years old. Nothing is perfect, not even science. So what I am saying is if we were not there we will never know and if you think science is perfect, you are a fool. Science is great for what is going on now and will be great for what we are facing but science is not a perfect past predictor as many think.
That wasn't 'science', that was Steve Austin. And it was nonsense.

http://noanswersingenesis.org.au/mt_st_helens...
EXPERT

Redding, CA

#100515 Oct 4, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Let me spell it out to you –“Another clueless troll...”– your words… If you cannot understand your deliberate insult then I feel sorry for you. But hey, you could very easily be a fundy christian and making such abusive and ignorant comments are just everyday talk for one of such belief.
You have no need to invoke any god, your post make your funnymentalist beliefs abundantly clear. Once again you are making the common fundy mistake of assuming that other people are as stupid as you. And then you act all innocent, shocked and surprised when it all comes back and kicks you in the teeth
I claim no such thing, the definition makes the claim, just because you don’t agree with the definition is no ones fault but your own.
<quoted text>
I am not here to tech you archaeology, it is up to you to chose to educate yourself but I would suggest you look start in the geological column.
Again I am not here to teach you, this time fluid dynamics however are you suggesting that given water is self levelling and it is claimed that there was enough water to cover the earth to a depth greater than the highest mountain that world wide currents would ensure no silt layer would be deposited - anywhere? Go figure…
<quoted text>
I was not involved in the dating however it was done, as is usual, in several different ways (unlike the fundy belief that only one [estimated] dating method is used). Using both incremental and radiometric techniques on the fossils, the burial artefacts, the surrounding detritus accuracy can be better than 50 years in 50,000.
Who said it was a cave?
Wrong, ALL fossils are transitional, this is the very reason I study cro magnon, because they are 100% human and classified as modern human yet show marked differences in both skeletal structure and cranial capacity to humans of today. The skull I use as my avatar is one such example of what you claim does not exist, a transitional fossil. That my dear puts paid you your argument, however you could not possible consider that a fact because it screws up your belief that goddidit by magic one October day 6000 years ago so of course you are welcome to prove your ignorance by ignoring the fact.
<quoted text>
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/T9Q...
Based on figures supplied by science and the US government (but hey you could just as easily, without evidence of any sort claim them to be liars too, after all, you are christian and lying for your god is what christians are bets at)
Plus a few year 5 calculations of the volume of spheres.
Over to you…
So to be clear, you claim that DNA carries (genetic information), right?

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