Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 173376 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

“Good day to you!”

Level 2

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#100247 Sep 28, 2013
MikeF wrote:
I am always open to possibilities and I am aware of fossils found both on and inside mountains. However, how many times the seabed may have pushed up is immaterial. Whether once or a hundred times. As I stated earlier, there has been no significant change in the earth's topography since modern humans have been in existence.
If you have scientific evidence to the contrary, let's hear it.
In the earth on every continent is a fine layer from the last asteroid that hit to the east of South America. That layer existed when dinosaurs were still walking the earth. Geologists have been analyzing the layers of the earth intently for the last 60 years and 99% of all those people analyzing the earth's layers never saw it because they weren't looking for it because they didn't know it existed. Yet it did exist. And they never saw it.
I never said a global flood took place but I have an open mind for possibilities for what might exist that hasn't been realized yet.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#100248 Sep 28, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Well according to what the Bible reveals, yes. To understand the Bible from a skeptic's view point as your's will never allow you to understand it at all. Trying to understand something while having a negative view of it usually doesn't happen.
If you want to understand the Bible, you should at least pretend you believe in it as you read it to give you an idea of what believers believe of it. Just saying.
Tried really hard years back....didn't work.

I still remember as a kid in Sunday school being told the Old Testament stories of floods, towers, made from dirt or bones, etc. and not believing them even then. Couldn't have been more then 8-10 years old.

I became a conscious atheists at 13 years of age.

“Good day to you!”

Level 2

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#100249 Sep 28, 2013
The Dude wrote:
It's called mountain-building. Land formerly underwater rises due to geological processes. Hence marine fossils in upper layers of mountains. INTACT fossils even. INSIDE solid rock. Floods cannot do that. Especially when temps reach sun-like levels.
Got a clue for you. Floods produce lakes/seas/oceans. They don't appear without flooding. Is there evidence for this flooding process right below each lake/sea/ocean bed floor level? It should be there by your logic.

“Good day to you!”

Level 2

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#100251 Sep 28, 2013
MikeF wrote:
Yes, there have been any number of cataclysmic events throughout the history of the earth. Just this week Pakistan was graced with a brand new island:
http://news.discovery.com/earth/rocks-fossils...
Even so, the energy released by flattening out the entire surface of the earth to permit said flood would be more than simply cataclysmic. It would have incinerated the entire planet and destroyed *all* life. Noah & company included.
Unless, of course, you invoke magic.
Absolutely not except by extreme idealisms. If a small portion of a seafloor can be pushed up undisturbed to be exposed above surface without incinerating all local sea and nearby land life then who's to say great areas of sea/ocean floor couldn't be raised by the same method of movement? You of course would say it can't be done I understand. But it was done in a small sample and the catastrophes you attached to a large one weren't attached to the small one. So possibilities do exist.

“Good day to you!”

Level 2

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#100252 Sep 28, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
It takes a lot more than simply an open mind. It takes evidence.
Yes, science is by nature skeptical. I see nothing wrong with that. Would you prefer that science immediately embraces every crackpot idea that comes along? How far would we get with that?
I would rather science investigate actual possibilities than just rejecting them and doing nothing which is what usually takes place.

“The Edge”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Of Tomorow

#100253 Sep 28, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Absolutely not except by extreme idealisms. If a small portion of a seafloor can be pushed up undisturbed to be exposed above surface without incinerating all local sea and nearby land life then who's to say great areas of sea/ocean floor couldn't be raised by the same method of movement? You of course would say it can't be done I understand. But it was done in a small sample and the catastrophes you attached to a large one weren't attached to the small one. So possibilities do exist.
Great areas of the seafloor have been raised up To majestic heights , what does that have to do with anything?

“Good day to you!”

Level 2

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#100254 Sep 28, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
And these kinds of processes are known about. But what you will notice that in these kinds of events there are NOT lots of nice neat little layers with specific kinds of fossils in specific layers and layers indicating desert land, grass plains (with pollen), marine layers, etc. These are only produced over long periods of time. Trust me when I say that professional geologists know more than you do. That's why there's no such thing as 'creation geologists' finding oil deposits based on your ideas.
Ahhh no. The processes you speak of weren't known about by the scientists you claim knew of them. If they had known about them the obvious would have been discovered at a much earlier date, not a later date. The geological layer in Mediterranean areas from a supervolcano is plain to see now by scientists because they recognize what to look for now. That layer wasn't seen/recognized previously because they weren't looking for it though they saw evidence for the explosion of a supervolcano.
And stating I know more than what professional geologists know was quite childish of you. Nice one :)

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#100255 Sep 28, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't seem to read what I have written. I never said a flood took place 4300 years ago. I have said according to certain Bible statements the 'supposed' flood took place at a different time period.
You don't seem to understand the dating of geological phenomena isn't an exact science. That it's changed and adjusted as time goes on with new information. Core samples from drilling rigs have produced fossilized specimens that are hundreds of feet deep and not in a proper age order. Understand the implication? It means there's a cluster *u*k of information laying below and on top of the surface of the earth that still needs to be explained.
What I understand is science is only correct for today because something new tomorrow will invalidate today's info as being accurate any more.
Dating has improved over the years, it really hasn't changed all that much.
And where are there layers out of order? I have seen this claim but no one has ever supported it.

“Good day to you!”

Level 2

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#100256 Sep 28, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually I'd say that an ENTIRE PLANET full of life is quite a bit of evidence.
lol.....really? Where did you get that crap? Where did you read a global flood would cause the loss of all life? An extremist, that's where you got that crap from.
I'll give you this exception to prove your crap point. If you can show proof that if the world flooded itself every single inch would have to be superheated beyond any known measure to kill all life you have grounds for your point.
But you have no point. Volcanic action not resulting in great heat can and has pushed ocean/sea floors to sea levels without killing all existing life. Then you have to deal with the fact that mud/silt itself sustains life in seawater and freshwater in cold and super heated water environments. Just saying.

“Good day to you!”

Level 2

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#100257 Sep 28, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Obviously you have no clue as to how science works. It works by making predictions.
I quit reading with the above. I would say are you fricking nuts but of course you are. Science has never ever worked by predictions. Where in the *ell did you come up with that BS? If science worked by predictions it would never advance because predictions are made without doing any research, you know like 'looking' for something to substantiate a theory you have? A prediction is a thought said as a statement of something that will take place in the future. Science is based on what has already taken place in the past so to prove a theory of what is thought to have taken place or is taking place.
Science is an idea and than comes observations, questions, inspections, analyzations, testing and researching etc to prove or disprove that idea.
lol...and you claim I don't know how science works...lol...to funny dude.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#100258 Sep 28, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
lol.....really? Where did you get that crap? Where did you read a global flood would cause the loss of all life? An extremist, that's where you got that crap from.
I'll give you this exception to prove your crap point. If you can show proof that if the world flooded itself every single inch would have to be superheated beyond any known measure to kill all life you have grounds for your point.
But you have no point. Volcanic action not resulting in great heat can and has pushed ocean/sea floors to sea levels without killing all existing life. Then you have to deal with the fact that mud/silt itself sustains life in seawater and freshwater in cold and super heated water environments. Just saying.
Perhaps he should have said practically all life. Bacteria would probably survive.

And you keep making idiotic claims without any evidence that backs your claims up. That means your claims are bullshit.

So, when has volcanic action ever greatly changed sea level over a very short period of time? The reason that we know Biblical flooding would have killed off everything except for bacteria is that 5 + miles of water would have to come either from outer space or from deep below the Earth. Either one would lead to all life beyond the single cellular dying off. So where did your 5 miles of water come from?

“Good day to you!”

Level 2

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#100259 Sep 28, 2013
The Dude wrote:
Doesn't matter WHAT evidence we find, you say a global flood MIGHT have happened. It's not that you simply have a lack of evidence, actual existing evidence of reality quite literally contradicts your claims. Meaning the only way around this is magic.
Therefore a global flood MIGHT have happened.
Because magic.
No. I state the 'possible' evidence for one or more global floodings hasn't been found because were not seeing it IF, if in fact the evidence exists.
The humorous but ignorant thing is you and others believe if evidence were found for a global flood, it would mean the Noah story would be seen as correct and the writer got it correct and that is not true.
Let's go from the other end for a bit shall we? Two thousand years ago a writer in the Bible stated/insinuated in the end of time the earth would be a mass of flames. Science has stated theoretically that the earth will become that at one point in the future. How did that writer 2000 years guess correct what scientists today claim what will take place?
"...the Day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with a fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up." (II Peter 3:10-)

“Good day to you!”

Level 2

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#100260 Sep 28, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
You're reading quite a bit into that stele. While it is very possible that it does refer to Israel (which is in some doubt) exactly what occurred after their defeat is pretty much guesswork.
No. And I based my statement on 'if'. The statement on the stella speaks of the wars and defeats others suffered by this pharaoh. And it states all he warred with and conquered who lived were bound meaning made captives. Captives were 'usually' always brought back to that conquering kings country in ancient times. That's the accepted interpretation of the quote by the professionals interpreting it regardless if the word Israel pertains to the ancestors of modern day Jews or not.

The princes are prostrate, saying: "Mercy!"
Not one raises his head among the Nine Bows.
Desolation is for Tehenu;
Hatti is pacified;
Plundered is the Canaan with every evil;
Carried off is Ashkelon;
seized upon is Gezer;
Yeno`am is made as that which does not exist;
Israel is laid waste, his seed is not;
Hurru is become a widow for Egypt!
All lands together, they are pacified;
everyone who was restless has been bound
by the king of Upper and Lower Egypt;
Be-en Re Meri-Amon; the Son of Re;
mer-ne-Ptah Hotep-hir-Maat, given life
like Re every day.

“Good day to you!”

Level 2

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#100261 Sep 28, 2013
JM_Brazil wrote:
<quoted text>
Seriously? Trauma after death?
I was repeating what someone else stated.

“Good day to you!”

Level 2

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#100263 Sep 28, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Who said anything about buildings? Tents or not they woukd have built thousands of fires. Left tons of garbage behind. They would have buried their dead. Every heard of middens. Why is there no trace?
<quoted text>
I would not be. If it's there.
Another poster suggested stationary buildings should be found.
There were millions of native American Indians in just North America for hundreds to thousands to tens of thousands of years. Why aren't we finding in the least hundreds of thousands of campsites with garbage and such evidence from the east coast to the west coast as you stated should have been found by a mass exodus of people living/moving about in a wilderness for just 40 years?
It's only been close to a century since Indians almost stopped having a nomadic life in North America moving here and there with seasons and the movement of animals like the buffalo. The topsoil should be littered with hundreds of thousands of spots where the native Indians had lived before moving on. The evidence should be so overwhelming it wouldn't even be exciting to find such a spot.

“Good day to you!”

Level 2

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#100264 Sep 28, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
You can ignore it if you choose but there is scientific evidence against a global flood.
No. Evidence doesn't exist to prove the nonexistence of a global flood.
I said this before. You can give personal opinions for why you think a global flood never happened, that you can do. But you will never have actual evidence to prove a global flood never took place.
Stating that puts you where scientists were when they stated there was evidence to prove nothing could exist without sunlight, that nothing could live in superheated water, that life didn't exist in ice etc. Understand?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#100265 Sep 28, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
No. Evidence doesn't exist to prove the nonexistence of a global flood.
I said this before. You can give personal opinions for why you think a global flood never happened, that you can do. But you will never have actual evidence to prove a global flood never took place.
Stating that puts you where scientists were when they stated there was evidence to prove nothing could exist without sunlight, that nothing could live in superheated water, that life didn't exist in ice etc. Understand?
We ahve extremely strong evidence that a flood never took place.

You clearly have no idea what is and what is not evidence.

For example the lack of worldwide genetic bottlenecks is extremely strong evidence against the flood.

“The Edge”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Of Tomorow

#100266 Sep 28, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
No. Evidence doesn't exist to prove the nonexistence of a global flood.
I said this before. You can give personal opinions for why you think a global flood never happened, that you can do. But you will never have actual evidence to prove a global flood never took place.
Stating that puts you where scientists were when they stated there was evidence to prove nothing could exist without sunlight, that nothing could live in superheated water, that life didn't exist in ice etc. Understand?
Do you have dog ship for brains?
It's no personal opinion, it is a physical reality that the flood myth is impossible.
You may as well speak of the hollow Earth theory, because you traverse a mountain of stupid to arrive at the decision there was a global flood.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#100267 Sep 28, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
No. Evidence doesn't exist to prove the nonexistence of a global flood.
I said this before. You can give personal opinions for why you think a global flood never happened, that you can do. But you will never have actual evidence to prove a global flood never took place.
Stating that puts you where scientists were when they stated there was evidence to prove nothing could exist without sunlight, that nothing could live in superheated water, that life didn't exist in ice etc. Understand?
Yeah dude, but this lack of evidence has been going on for 300 years while thousands of scientists and plain fundamentalists have been looking for it. Never happened. There is absolutely NO evidence for a Noachian flood. The story has been falsified.

If somehow you can find some real evidence for a flood...come to us....until then it is a closed subject with science.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#100268 Sep 28, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
No. Evidence doesn't exist to prove the nonexistence of a global flood.
I said this before. You can give personal opinions for why you think a global flood never happened, that you can do. But you will never have actual evidence to prove a global flood never took place.
Stating that puts you where scientists were when they stated there was evidence to prove nothing could exist without sunlight, that nothing could live in superheated water, that life didn't exist in ice etc. Understand?
Nobody ever thought bacteria could live in extreme places until the evidence came in and more testing was done. Now we knows that bacteria can even live and thrive in JP4/JP5 jet fuel. Scary stuff.

You seem to be of the opinion that all scientific knowledge is wrong or twisted, and because it is wrong at first, but then revised, you don't believe any of it.

Typical evangelical fundamentalist YEC attitude....can't learn anything new.:-)

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