Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#100180 Sep 27, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
The only nonsense here is what you keep stating that you somehow refuse to understand the obvious, but to each their own.
The 'saying' that we only use ten percent of the mind does not mean that only ten percent of the brain is functioning while the other ninety percent lays like dead waste matter. That isn't what the saying meant. But the fact that people like yourself have taken that saying so literally proves what the saying actually means lol.
Brain scans have shown the entire 'normal' brain is fully 100% active. But. But brain scans have also shown that in the brains of people with great creative thinking, their is factually more activity in their brains than in the brain scan of a person who has less creative thinking.
Maybe you should take a non-negative brain breather and read the following link that better spells out my point.
A fat guy uses 100% of his body just like a sportsman, it's just that the sportsman is more active. So in other words you were wrong and repeating an old fallacy and now attempting to get around it by posting something which DOESN'T support you.

It's was just another old wives tale, like "law" of gravity, or "missing link". Public latches onto these terms anyway because most of them don't know better. Nothing more complicated than that.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#100181 Sep 27, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Nooooooo..lol. Let's get this correct okay? There is no evidence to prove a global flood never happened. Understand? No evidence exists to prove a global flood never happened. That statement is the thinking mentality of a shut mind working from absolutes, not possibilities.
Sorry, pal, but you are completely wrong. Local floods, sure. But there is no evidence that a global flood ever happened. You can start with the Atacama Desert.
No Surprise wrote:
The correct thing to state would be at present there is no scientific evidence to show a global flood took place.
See last comment.
No Surprise wrote:
You seem to be open for some 'possibilities' so let me pitch a question to you and anyone else that wants to make an opinion about it.
The ancient Rocky mountains are thought to of been over 3000 metershttps://gsa.confex.com/g sa/2002AM/finalprogram/abstrac t_42865.htm
The tallest Rocky mountain today is said to be Elbert that's just over 1000 meters.
I hiked the Rocky mountains. If anyone else has, you may of had the chance to come across fossilized sea life laying on the ground as I did with friends and or family.
These fossils were found near and at the tops of various peaks low and high in elevation.
My question is how many times was the seabed being pushed up to slowly form the Rockies, how many times do you suppose this land area being pushed up was flood by seas time and time again so that 2000 meters later sea fossils are still being found at or near the peaks of various mountains in this chain?
I am always open to possibilities and I am aware of fossils found both on and inside mountains. However, how many times the seabed may have pushed up is immaterial. Whether once or a hundred times. As I stated earlier, there has been no significant change in the earth's topography since modern humans have been in existence.

If you have scientific evidence to the contrary, let's hear it.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#100182 Sep 27, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
Nooooooo..lol. Let's get this correct okay? There is no evidence to prove a global flood never happened. Understand? No evidence exists to prove a global flood never happened. That statement is the thinking mentality of a shut mind working from absolutes, not possibilities.
Yes, we understand. You are flat wrong. Here's a number of reasons why:

1 - There is, quite literally, no geological evidence to support it.

2 -Life survived. This is not a possibility in any form under a global flood scenario. Unless we invoke magic.

But since you ARE making excuses for Biblical literacy then magic what you're attempting to justify. This means evidence is irrelevant, because there is no configuration of evidence which is incompatible with magic.

You can stop pretending your claims have anything to do with science now.
No Surprise wrote:
The correct thing to state would be at present there is no scientific evidence to show a global flood took place.
And plenty against it. However despite the problems already been described to you you have completely ignored them and called us "meanies" for not considering the possibility that physics itself was suspended for 40 days just so you can say "The Bible is true!!!"
No Surprise wrote:
You seem to be open for some 'possibilities' so let me pitch a question to you and anyone else that wants to make an opinion about it.
The ancient Rocky mountains are thought to of been over 3000 metershttps://gsa.confex.com/g sa/2002AM/finalprogram/abstrac t_42865.htm
The tallest Rocky mountain today is said to be Elbert that's just over 1000 meters.
I hiked the Rocky mountains. If anyone else has, you may of had the chance to come across fossilized sea life laying on the ground as I did with friends and or family.
These fossils were found near and at the tops of various peaks low and high in elevation.
My question is how many times was the seabed being pushed up to slowly form the Rockies, how many times do you suppose this land area being pushed up was flood by seas time and time again so that 2000 meters later sea fossils are still being found at or near the peaks of various mountains in this chain?
It's called mountain-building. Land formerly underwater rises due to geological processes. Hence marine fossils in upper layers of mountains. INTACT fossils even. INSIDE solid rock. Floods cannot do that. Especially when temps reach sun-like levels.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#100183 Sep 27, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
I was of the same mind thought once. Then after I watched how quickly the land and seafloor volcanic activity changed Hawaii, how the Scablands were shown to have been brought to be in a succession of floods and not millions of years of time and how science has shown how a single ancient super volcano changed the landscape of the Mediterranean and even now with the sudden apearence of a single island, http://www.livescience.com/39922-pakistan-ear... I leave my self open to 'possibilities.'
One should always be open to possibilities. However, clinging to 'possibilities' in the face of all evidence to the contrary is not indicative of an open mind but a closed one. KAB is an excellent example of this type of thinking,

Yes, there have been any number of cataclysmic events throughout the history of the earth. Just this week Pakistan was graced with a brand new island:

http://news.discovery.com/earth/rocks-fossils...

Even so, the energy released by flattening out the entire surface of the earth to permit said flood would be more than simply cataclysmic. It would have incinerated the entire planet and destroyed *all* life. Noah & company included.

Unless, of course, you invoke magic.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#100184 Sep 27, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
An attempt to get me to understand how science works? lol...way too fricking funny dude. I am well aware of how science 'doesn't' work. The first act of science is to deny something's existence someone is claiming by theory existed/exists. That is and has been the first act of science all along. Do you have any idea of how many discoveries in science were made by one or two individuals literally acting alone because the majority of other scientific minds scoffed, ridiculed and denied their proposed theory could even be true by the least evidence?
Good example: A single solitary geologist saw something in the Scablands that others missed. He now stands vindicated through all the opposition from other scientists who believed they were so 'factually' correct that it took millions of years for the Scablands to be formed and 'thought' they had actual geological proof.
It only takes a single open mind to prove yesterdays fact was false all along. I like possibilities :)
It takes a lot more than simply an open mind. It takes evidence.

Yes, science is by nature skeptical. I see nothing wrong with that. Would you prefer that science immediately embraces every crackpot idea that comes along? How far would we get with that?
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#100185 Sep 27, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
I was of the same mind thought once. Then after I watched how quickly the land and seafloor volcanic activity changed Hawaii, how the Scablands were shown to have been brought to be in a succession of floods and not millions of years of time and how science has shown how a single ancient super volcano changed the landscape of the Mediterranean and even now with the sudden apearence of a single island, http://www.livescience.com/39922-pakistan-ear... I leave my self open to 'possibilities.'
And these kinds of processes are known about. But what you will notice that in these kinds of events there are NOT lots of nice neat little layers with specific kinds of fossils in specific layers and layers indicating desert land, grass plains (with pollen), marine layers, etc. These are only produced over long periods of time. Trust me when I say that professional geologists know more than you do. That's why there's no such thing as 'creation geologists' finding oil deposits based on your ideas.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#100186 Sep 27, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
You really need to get a grip on the fallacy of your thinking dude. There is not and there never has been "MASSIVE evidence to prove a global flood never happened. How you don't comprehend that fact I don't understand. What is your MASSIVE evidence? Lack of evidence for a flood? See, if a global flood never happened, it obviously and rationally can't leave MASSIVE evidence behind to prove it never happened. Understand? How fricking twisted will your thinking be on this?
At present, there is no scientific proof that supports a global flood took place. Isn't that easy to say?
Actually I'd say that an ENTIRE PLANET full of life is quite a bit of evidence. You were already told why this would not be possible, so since you ignore anything theologically inconvenient then the only rational explanation is that you're just another liar for God.

And since God IS exactly what you're attempting to justify here it's also HIGHLY disingenuous trying to do so using evidence when evidence is UTTERLY superfluous to your position.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#100187 Sep 27, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
Nothing I claim is valid unless I support actual evidence that science agrees with is true and accurate. My point was ridiculing those that claim their is existing evidence to prove what can't be shown to have existed never existed, understand?
Obviously you have no clue as to how science works. It works by making predictions. As far as your flood is concerned it can ONLY work using magic. Not only do you not have any evidence but you don't have any scientific mechanisms to support it, and if you came up with something we both know you'd be making up BS, or repeating made up BS found on creationist sites.

Now, as far as biology is concerned, an ancient fossil with feathers and three middle-ear bones would be impossible, as it would be a violation of nested hierarchy. Life simply did not evolve like that. If we DO find such a fossil then we know that our position is then falsified. The potential for falsification is what makes things scientific. YOUR position on the other hand is not falsifiable. Doesn't matter WHAT evidence we find, you say a global flood MIGHT have happened. It's not that you simply have a lack of evidence, actual existing evidence of reality quite literally contradicts your claims. Meaning the only way around this is magic.

Therefore a global flood MIGHT have happened.

Because magic.
No Surprise wrote:
The opposite ludicracy is to claim there is existing evidence to prove what can't be proved to have existed did in fact exist.
A common creationist mistake.
No Surprise wrote:
At times what I have been discussing is my opinion of what could have taken place that is not based on actual evidence. Most call it the beginning of a hypothesis. Understand?
It's not even a hypothesis. Hypotheses can be investigated. Your position is literally "made up BS". On the same level as my alien breeding experiments story.
No Surprise wrote:
Of the dead body point I made consider this for relevance.
There is a story of an exodus. There is minimal weak circumstantial evidence for parts of the story. But there is no evidence for the exodus itself.
There are stories of four dictators killing 82 million to 182 million people in just several decades. There is evidence that they did kill people. There is minimal weak circumstantial evidence existing to prove 82 million to 182 million people were actually killed. There is no actual evidence existing to prove 82 million to 182 million people were killed.
Understand my point? Your's and other's logic can be applied to modern day history to cast doubt as to the historical accuracy because of the theory of 'missing evidence' you use to prove/show something didn't happen. Understand now?
Not really, because those things can be investigated. We have birth records then all of a sudden lots of people aren't leaving any paper trail. Historical documents, living eyewitnesses, video footage - and in general, a consensus by historians who know far more about the evidence for these things than either of us.

In short, you're out of your element.

If you wanna say the Bible "might" be true so you can say everything was made by an invisible magic wizard then go ahead. But if you say your claims are valid and have good reason to be taken seriously, you're lying.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#100188 Sep 27, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
It was what you insinuated.
If what is on the Merneptah stele is proved to be true of Israelites being beaten in war by an Egyptian pharaoh and were taken as captives/slaves back to Egypt, though the Biblical time period would be incorrect, the part of the story long disbelieved that Egyptians beat Israelites in war and took them as captives/slaves will be proved true. The question then will be what happened to those captives and the succeeding generations born of those captives? Were they absorbed into that culture and never left? Did they leave as in an exodus?
You're reading quite a bit into that stele. While it is very possible that it does refer to Israel (which is in some doubt) exactly what occurred after their defeat is pretty much guesswork.

“Up with which, I will not put”

Since: Jul 08

Sao Paulo

#100189 Sep 27, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
If 'trama' after death causes NDE...
Seriously? Trauma after death?

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#100190 Sep 27, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
According to the story, if anything remained of the exodus it would be minimal at best. The story states they lived in tents during their wandering years. That means they didn't erect cities of stone wood and mud brick three favorite building materials then. So looking for buildings wouldn't be advisable since the story states they weren't used and tents were.
Who said anything about buildings? Tents or not they woukd have built thousands of fires. Left tons of garbage behind. They would have buried their dead. Every heard of middens. Why is there no trace?
No Surprise wrote:
Personally I am not surprised that any evidence has been found. I will be surprised if evidence is found.
I would not be. If it's there.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#100191 Sep 27, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
You really need to get a grip on the fallacy of your thinking dude. There is not and there never has been "MASSIVE evidence to prove a global flood never happened. How you don't comprehend that fact I don't understand. What is your MASSIVE evidence? Lack of evidence for a flood? See, if a global flood never happened, it obviously and rationally can't leave MASSIVE evidence behind to prove it never happened. Understand? How fricking twisted will your thinking be on this?
At present, there is no scientific proof that supports a global flood took place. Isn't that easy to say?
You can ignore it if you choose but there is scientific evidence against a global flood.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#100192 Sep 27, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree with something I heard in youth.'The Bible's only as correct as it's been translated that way. And humans err. So as the Bible will be.'
One would think an all powerful god would be able to keep his word from being corrupted. Especially considering he is the one who allegedly confused the languages.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#100193 Sep 27, 2013
richardIII wrote:
<quoted text>
We can agree to disagree. What are you playing? Walk don't Run? lol
I imagine that was supposed to mean something. What was it?

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#100194 Sep 27, 2013
JM_Brazil wrote:
<quoted text>
Seriously? Trauma after death?
Not as painful as before death.

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#100195 Sep 27, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
You can ignore it if you choose but there is scientific evidence against a global flood.
By now, you should have a working understanding of the logic of fundie faith.
1) A recent and MASSIVE catastrophic global event that didn't happen wouldn't even leave faint regional traces that it didn't happen, therefore the Noachian Flud was real.
On the other hand,
2) a recent MASSIVE catastrophic global event that DID happen wouldn't even leave faint regional traces that it DID happen, therefore the Noachian Flud was real.
This is conclusive and MASSIVE evidence that science is a religion, God created chimpanzees from the rib of a banana and Obama was born in Kenya.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#100196 Sep 27, 2013
JM_Brazil wrote:
<quoted text>
Seriously? Trauma after death?
Maybe he meant Drama ?

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#100197 Sep 27, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
By now, you should have a working understanding of the logic of fundie faith.
1) A recent and MASSIVE catastrophic global event that didn't happen wouldn't even leave faint regional traces that it didn't happen, therefore the Noachian Flud was real.
On the other hand,
2) a recent MASSIVE catastrophic global event that DID happen wouldn't even leave faint regional traces that it DID happen, therefore the Noachian Flud was real.
This is conclusive and MASSIVE evidence that science is a religion, God created chimpanzees from the rib of a banana and Obama was born in Kenya.
Of course. It's all clear to me now.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Tempe, AZ.

#100198 Sep 27, 2013
Where the heck is everybody??
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#100200 Sep 27, 2013
Went quiet all of a sudden, didn't it?

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