Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#100130 Sep 26, 2013
replaytime wrote:
multiplying, learned how or just luckily
Yes, just as hydrogen and oxygen "learned" how to make water. Or just got "lucky".

(eyeroll)
replaytime wrote:
it also learned to shape shift(change big to small and small to big)
And I take it you learned to shape-shift too? After all, I'm prett sure you look quite different to when you were four years old. Or four minutes even. Darn you're clever!

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#100131 Sep 26, 2013
richardIII wrote:
<quoted text>
Scientists say everything came from one very tiny point of something and grew into the entire universe, isn't that as hard to believe as that there is a "god"? Both pretty far fetched if you ask me.
I'll have to disagree with this statement. What 'science' says is not something that scientists just dreamed up. It is a summation of what the evidence indicates. Beginning with the work of Georges Lemaître - interestingly enough, a Catholic priest.

As yet, no one has discovered any evidence of the influence of a god on the emergence of the universe.

So, no, I don't agree that both are equally far fetched.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#100132 Sep 26, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Come back to us the moment you come up with any scientific alternatives that provide a better explanation.
But I guarantee you you won't do so in your lifetime.
I guess you don't keep up with the news. That's why you don't care about other life forms from another planets. It's a possibility.

http://news.yahoo.com/did-earth-life-come-spa...

You have not provided any answers here. If so, you would've explained it by now.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#100133 Sep 26, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
I guess you don't keep up with the news. That's why you don't care about other life forms from another planets. It's a possibility.
http://news.yahoo.com/did-earth-life-come-spa...
You have not provided any answers here. If so, you would've explained it by now.
If life on earth originated elsewhere in the universe, that simply relocates the issue of abiogenesis. While it is a possibility, it does not provide an answer.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Santorini Greece

#100135 Sep 26, 2013
BASHER505 wrote:
Earlier I posted something that I thought would be thought provoking and insitefull. However, it is now quarter to 12 at night, I've had a few fingers of good 22 year old scotch and I'd like to share something that struck me while reading the posts since then...
A bumper sticker I once saw said; LORD, SAVE ME FROM YOUR FOLLOWERS!
All of this rhetorical religious drivel... No wonder people like me think people like you are suited only for banging rocks together and making grunting noises while flinging religious poo everywhere.
that's it for me.
Ya drink too much.....

“Good day to you!”

Level 2

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#100136 Sep 26, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
This is absurd. There is evidence for each of the example you cited. Can we account for every single body? No. So what? That isn't necessary. Do I need to post pictures of the mass graves?
Same rules: Can you provide any evidence at all for the Exodus?
"People that think like you never do anything because it would mean you'd have to look for evidence of something you claim can't exist because you don't see it."
OK, let's see it.
There is evidence of deaths. But there is no existing evidence to prove that somewhere between 82 million to 182 million people were killed by those four dictators. You won't find that many dead decaying bodies to prove those numbers anywhere.
Do we have evidence for an exodus of Hebrews/Israelites from Egypt? No. Does that mean it didn't take place and never happened? Yes to those that wish not to believe it could have 'possibly' taken place. People that wish not to believe something is possible will always be the first to prove what a closed mind is again and again ....

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#100137 Sep 26, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
There is evidence of deaths. But there is no existing evidence to prove that somewhere between 82 million to 182 million people were killed by those four dictators. You won't find that many dead decaying bodies to prove those numbers anywhere.
Do we have evidence for an exodus of Hebrews/Israelites from Egypt? No. Does that mean it didn't take place and never happened? Yes to those that wish not to believe it could have 'possibly' taken place. People that wish not to believe something is possible will always be the first to prove what a closed mind is again and again ....
You seem to be having a great deal of difficulty distinguishing between some evidence and no evidence.

“Good day to you!”

Level 2

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#100138 Sep 26, 2013
Gillette wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm asking you to explain, in scientific terms, EXACTLY how you conclude that we "only use 10% of our creative potential." That is bullshit that has been debunked as myth long ago. I even gave you the links.
Instead of responding with a factual explanation of your tired cliché, you attack me for pointing out that you are, in fact, talking nonsense.
The only nonsense here is what you keep stating that you somehow refuse to understand the obvious, but to each their own.
The 'saying' that we only use ten percent of the mind does not mean that only ten percent of the brain is functioning while the other ninety percent lays like dead waste matter. That isn't what the saying meant. But the fact that people like yourself have taken that saying so literally proves what the saying actually means lol.
Brain scans have shown the entire 'normal' brain is fully 100% active. But. But brain scans have also shown that in the brains of people with great creative thinking, their is factually more activity in their brains than in the brain scan of a person who has less creative thinking.
Maybe you should take a non-negative brain breather and read the following link that better spells out my point.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/10/...
Some clips from it.
"The study, published in the journal Neuropsychologia, reveals a distinct pattern of brain activity, even at rest, in people who tend to solve problems with a sudden creative insight -- an “Aha! Moment”– compared to people who tend to solve problems more methodically."
"One difference was that the creative solvers exhibited greater activity in several regions of the right hemisphere.'
"Thus, the new study shows that basic differences in brain activity between creative and methodical problem solvers exist and are evident even when these individuals are not working on a problem."
Thus my statement stands that we humans don't use our full mental potential when it comes to creative thinking. I know you'll love to hate that fact :)

“Good day to you!”

Level 2

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#100139 Sep 26, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Where are you getting this nonsense? The geography of the earth has not significantly changed since man has walked the earth. The evidence has already shown that a global flood never happened.
Nooooooo..lol. Let's get this correct okay? There is no evidence to prove a global flood never happened. Understand? No evidence exists to prove a global flood never happened. That statement is the thinking mentality of a shut mind working from absolutes, not possibilities.
The correct thing to state would be at present there is no scientific evidence to show a global flood took place.
You seem to be open for some 'possibilities' so let me pitch a question to you and anyone else that wants to make an opinion about it.
The ancient Rocky mountains are thought to of been over 3000 metershttps://gsa.confex.com/g sa/2002AM/finalprogram/abstrac t_42865.htm
The tallest Rocky mountain today is said to be Elbert that's just over 1000 meters.
I hiked the Rocky mountains. If anyone else has, you may of had the chance to come across fossilized sea life laying on the ground as I did with friends and or family.
These fossils were found near and at the tops of various peaks low and high in elevation.
My question is how many times was the seabed being pushed up to slowly form the Rockies, how many times do you suppose this land area being pushed up was flood by seas time and time again so that 2000 meters later sea fossils are still being found at or near the peaks of various mountains in this chain?

“Good day to you!”

Level 2

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#100140 Sep 26, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Where are you getting this nonsense? The geography of the earth has not significantly changed since man has walked the earth.
I was of the same mind thought once. Then after I watched how quickly the land and seafloor volcanic activity changed Hawaii, how the Scablands were shown to have been brought to be in a succession of floods and not millions of years of time and how science has shown how a single ancient super volcano changed the landscape of the Mediterranean and even now with the sudden apearence of a single island, http://www.livescience.com/39922-pakistan-ear... I leave my self open to 'possibilities.'

“Good day to you!”

Level 2

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#100141 Sep 26, 2013
Gillette wrote:
<quoted text>
No, it's actually an attempt to get you to understand how SCIENCE works. If there is evidence for a phenomenon, then it is researched further and eventually codified as a scientific theory, which stands until something else that is better at explaining the phenomenon comes along.
An attempt to get me to understand how science works? lol...way too fricking funny dude. I am well aware of how science 'doesn't' work. The first act of science is to deny something's existence someone is claiming by theory existed/exists. That is and has been the first act of science all along. Do you have any idea of how many discoveries in science were made by one or two individuals literally acting alone because the majority of other scientific minds scoffed, ridiculed and denied their proposed theory could even be true by the least evidence?
Good example: A single solitary geologist saw something in the Scablands that others missed. He now stands vindicated through all the opposition from other scientists who believed they were so 'factually' correct that it took millions of years for the Scablands to be formed and 'thought' they had actual geological proof.
It only takes a single open mind to prove yesterdays fact was false all along. I like possibilities :)

“Good day to you!”

Level 2

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#100142 Sep 26, 2013
Gillette wrote:
I didn't say that, you moron.
I DID say that top Israeli archeologists have concluded that there is no archeological evidence of such a massive movement of people over 40 years. And there presumably WOULD be -- graves, granaries, cooking pits, pottery, walls, settlement boundaries, etc.
These are professional, working Israeli archeologists who say there is no evidence of the presence of a large # of people in the Sinai in that period.
It was what you insinuated.
If what is on the Merneptah stele is proved to be true of Israelites being beaten in war by an Egyptian pharaoh and were taken as captives/slaves back to Egypt, though the Biblical time period would be incorrect, the part of the story long disbelieved that Egyptians beat Israelites in war and took them as captives/slaves will be proved true. The question then will be what happened to those captives and the succeeding generations born of those captives? Were they absorbed into that culture and never left? Did they leave as in an exodus?

“Good day to you!”

Level 2

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#100143 Sep 26, 2013
Gillette wrote:
Who cares where all the graves are. But we have MUCH evidence of the various BATTLEFIELDS, don't we?
So, in the case of the Civil War, those historical mass movements and activities left behind obvious traces.
In the case of the supposed Exodus? Nothing. And this from highly trained professionals who KNOW what to look for and would find the evidence if it were there.
Fricking brilliant statement to prove me correct again. "Who cares..." The statement of a shut mind operating from absolutes and an example of what so many scientists are like. That's why others and myself were made to believe as science taught there was no light without sunlight. There was no life in superheated water. There was no life in extreme freezing cold ice/glaciers etc. The words from science books and science teachers reciting science books and what they were taught still is sounded out today with "there is not, there cannot be, there never has been, has never existed, etc. So many absolute mentalities proved wrong time and time again yet they stick to their absolute thinking all the same.
According to the story, if anything remained of the exodus it would be minimal at best. The story states they lived in tents during their wandering years. That means they didn't erect cities of stone wood and mud brick three favorite building materials then. So looking for buildings wouldn't be advisable since the story states they weren't used and tents were.
So as a comparison we turn to wandering tribes using tents that we have knowledge about to see what they leave behind for evidence. Millions of natives lived in North America alone. How many sites do we have for those millions of wanderers? Few at most compared to the number we should have discovered. A lot of natural events can erase a culture's existence to nothing or a few findings that were nomadic in nature.
Personally I am not surprised that any evidence has been found. I will be surprised if evidence is found.

“Good day to you!”

Level 2

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#100144 Sep 26, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Gratuitous self-promotion aside I will for now assume that this guy's a great business man and done lots of wonderful things for all the companies he said he's worked for and not a crank. So far there is little evidence you have anything close resembling his abilities of 'creative thinking'.
lol...I never stated or insinuated that guy had some sort of a creative/creative genius going above the rest of us. My point about him was his point that we neglect to become the creative thinkers we have a potential for being because of certain culture idealisms/restrictions we are suffered to.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Santorini Greece

#100145 Sep 26, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Nooooooo..lol. Let's get this correct okay? There is no evidence to prove a global flood never happened. Understand? No evidence exists to prove a global flood never happened. That statement is the thinking mentality of a shut mind working from absolutes, not possibilities.
The correct thing to state would be at present there is no scientific evidence to show a global flood took place.
You seem to be open for some 'possibilities' so let me pitch a question to you and anyone else that wants to make an opinion about it.
The ancient Rocky mountains are thought to of been over 3000 metershttps://gsa.confex.com/g sa/2002AM/finalprogram/abstrac t_42865.htm
The tallest Rocky mountain today is said to be Elbert that's just over 1000 meters.
I hiked the Rocky mountains. If anyone else has, you may of had the chance to come across fossilized sea life laying on the ground as I did with friends and or family.
These fossils were found near and at the tops of various peaks low and high in elevation.
My question is how many times was the seabed being pushed up to slowly form the Rockies, how many times do you suppose this land area being pushed up was flood by seas time and time again so that 2000 meters later sea fossils are still being found at or near the peaks of various mountains in this chain?
People of faith and insight determined in the late 1600's that there was NO flood. Since that time thousands of scientists and just plain people have searched for ANY evidence of this magic flood and found NOTHING at all.

The Noachian flood remains a myth.

“Good day to you!”

Level 2

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#100146 Sep 26, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
No, in the case of the flood it simply didn't happen not only because of the lack of evidence, but also because of the rather MASSIVE evidence against it.
You really need to get a grip on the fallacy of your thinking dude. There is not and there never has been "MASSIVE evidence to prove a global flood never happened. How you don't comprehend that fact I don't understand. What is your MASSIVE evidence? Lack of evidence for a flood? See, if a global flood never happened, it obviously and rationally can't leave MASSIVE evidence behind to prove it never happened. Understand? How fricking twisted will your thinking be on this?
At present, there is no scientific proof that supports a global flood took place. Isn't that easy to say?

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Santorini Greece

#100147 Sep 26, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Nooooooo..lol. Let's get this correct okay? There is no evidence to prove a global flood never happened. Understand? No evidence exists to prove a global flood never happened. That statement is the thinking mentality of a shut mind working from absolutes, not possibilities.
The correct thing to state would be at present there is no scientific evidence to show a global flood took place.
You seem to be open for some 'possibilities' so let me pitch a question to you and anyone else that wants to make an opinion about it.
The ancient Rocky mountains are thought to of been over 3000 metershttps://gsa.confex.com/g sa/2002AM/finalprogram/abstrac t_42865.htm
The tallest Rocky mountain today is said to be Elbert that's just over 1000 meters.
I hiked the Rocky mountains. If anyone else has, you may of had the chance to come across fossilized sea life laying on the ground as I did with friends and or family.
These fossils were found near and at the tops of various peaks low and high in elevation.
My question is how many times was the seabed being pushed up to slowly form the Rockies, how many times do you suppose this land area being pushed up was flood by seas time and time again so that 2000 meters later sea fossils are still being found at or near the peaks of various mountains in this chain?
I believe there was a vast inland sea in the North American continent that lasted for MILLIONS of years. Plenty of time to lay down these rich beds of fossils....don't you think?

In the little mountain ghost town of Berlin, Nevada there is a state park (been there) that displays many Ichthyosaur fossils from this inland sea...some of the largest ever found.

Ichthyosaurs lived from about 245 to 90 million years ago.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Santorini Greece

#100148 Sep 26, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
It was what you insinuated.
If what is on the Merneptah stele is proved to be true of Israelites being beaten in war by an Egyptian pharaoh and were taken as captives/slaves back to Egypt, though the Biblical time period would be incorrect, the part of the story long disbelieved that Egyptians beat Israelites in war and took them as captives/slaves will be proved true. The question then will be what happened to those captives and the succeeding generations born of those captives? Were they absorbed into that culture and never left? Did they leave as in an exodus?
There is a total lack of physical and/or cultural evidence that the Exodus and all the revolved around it ever happened. archaeologists have been scouring the Sinai desert for a century looking for anything....nothing found at all.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#100149 Sep 26, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
An attempt to get me to understand how science works? lol...way too fricking funny dude. I am well aware of how science 'doesn't' work. The first act of science is to deny something's existence someone is claiming by theory existed/exists. That is and has been the first act of science all along. Do you have any idea of how many discoveries in science were made by one or two individuals literally acting alone because the majority of other scientific minds scoffed, ridiculed and denied their proposed theory could even be true by the least evidence?
Good example: A single solitary geologist saw something in the Scablands that others missed. He now stands vindicated through all the opposition from other scientists who believed they were so 'factually' correct that it took millions of years for the Scablands to be formed and 'thought' they had actual geological proof.
It only takes a single open mind to prove yesterdays fact was false all along. I like possibilities :)
Well please by all means share this discovery you have made, otherwise you are just blowing smoke up our azz.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Santorini Greece

#100150 Sep 26, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Fricking brilliant statement to prove me correct again. "Who cares..." The statement of a shut mind operating from absolutes and an example of what so many scientists are like. That's why others and myself were made to believe as science taught there was no light without sunlight. There was no life in superheated water. There was no life in extreme freezing cold ice/glaciers etc. The words from science books and science teachers reciting science books and what they were taught still is sounded out today with "there is not, there cannot be, there never has been, has never existed, etc. So many absolute mentalities proved wrong time and time again yet they stick to their absolute thinking all the same.
According to the story, if anything remained of the exodus it would be minimal at best. The story states they lived in tents during their wandering years. That means they didn't erect cities of stone wood and mud brick three favorite building materials then. So looking for buildings wouldn't be advisable since the story states they weren't used and tents were.
So as a comparison we turn to wandering tribes using tents that we have knowledge about to see what they leave behind for evidence. Millions of natives lived in North America alone. How many sites do we have for those millions of wanderers? Few at most compared to the number we should have discovered. A lot of natural events can erase a culture's existence to nothing or a few findings that were nomadic in nature.
Personally I am not surprised that any evidence has been found. I will be surprised if evidence is found.
See the thing about native Americans living and moving about the American landscape means nothing in comparison to the Exodus.

The Bible says that 600,000 young fighting age men and their families and some Egyptians and much livestock moved en-masse into the Sinai and spent 40 years there, but mostly hovering around the town of Kadesh-Barnea.

There have been archaeological finding in the desert of other small groups wandering through, both before and after the reputed Exodus, but nothing at all to support the Biblical myth.

It's all a pious fraud.

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