Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 221490 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#100148 Sep 26, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
It was what you insinuated.
If what is on the Merneptah stele is proved to be true of Israelites being beaten in war by an Egyptian pharaoh and were taken as captives/slaves back to Egypt, though the Biblical time period would be incorrect, the part of the story long disbelieved that Egyptians beat Israelites in war and took them as captives/slaves will be proved true. The question then will be what happened to those captives and the succeeding generations born of those captives? Were they absorbed into that culture and never left? Did they leave as in an exodus?
There is a total lack of physical and/or cultural evidence that the Exodus and all the revolved around it ever happened. archaeologists have been scouring the Sinai desert for a century looking for anything....nothing found at all.

“ad victoriam”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#100149 Sep 26, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
An attempt to get me to understand how science works? lol...way too fricking funny dude. I am well aware of how science 'doesn't' work. The first act of science is to deny something's existence someone is claiming by theory existed/exists. That is and has been the first act of science all along. Do you have any idea of how many discoveries in science were made by one or two individuals literally acting alone because the majority of other scientific minds scoffed, ridiculed and denied their proposed theory could even be true by the least evidence?
Good example: A single solitary geologist saw something in the Scablands that others missed. He now stands vindicated through all the opposition from other scientists who believed they were so 'factually' correct that it took millions of years for the Scablands to be formed and 'thought' they had actual geological proof.
It only takes a single open mind to prove yesterdays fact was false all along. I like possibilities :)
Well please by all means share this discovery you have made, otherwise you are just blowing smoke up our azz.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#100150 Sep 26, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Fricking brilliant statement to prove me correct again. "Who cares..." The statement of a shut mind operating from absolutes and an example of what so many scientists are like. That's why others and myself were made to believe as science taught there was no light without sunlight. There was no life in superheated water. There was no life in extreme freezing cold ice/glaciers etc. The words from science books and science teachers reciting science books and what they were taught still is sounded out today with "there is not, there cannot be, there never has been, has never existed, etc. So many absolute mentalities proved wrong time and time again yet they stick to their absolute thinking all the same.
According to the story, if anything remained of the exodus it would be minimal at best. The story states they lived in tents during their wandering years. That means they didn't erect cities of stone wood and mud brick three favorite building materials then. So looking for buildings wouldn't be advisable since the story states they weren't used and tents were.
So as a comparison we turn to wandering tribes using tents that we have knowledge about to see what they leave behind for evidence. Millions of natives lived in North America alone. How many sites do we have for those millions of wanderers? Few at most compared to the number we should have discovered. A lot of natural events can erase a culture's existence to nothing or a few findings that were nomadic in nature.
Personally I am not surprised that any evidence has been found. I will be surprised if evidence is found.
See the thing about native Americans living and moving about the American landscape means nothing in comparison to the Exodus.

The Bible says that 600,000 young fighting age men and their families and some Egyptians and much livestock moved en-masse into the Sinai and spent 40 years there, but mostly hovering around the town of Kadesh-Barnea.

There have been archaeological finding in the desert of other small groups wandering through, both before and after the reputed Exodus, but nothing at all to support the Biblical myth.

It's all a pious fraud.

“ad victoriam”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#100151 Sep 26, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Fricking brilliant statement to prove me correct again. "Who cares..." The statement of a shut mind operating from absolutes and an example of what so many scientists are like. That's why others and myself were made to believe as science taught there was no light without sunlight. There was no life in superheated water. There was no life in extreme freezing cold ice/glaciers etc. The words from science books and science teachers reciting science books and what they were taught still is sounded out today with "there is not, there cannot be, there never has been, has never existed, etc. So many absolute mentalities proved wrong time and time again yet they stick to their absolute thinking all the same.
According to the story, if anything remained of the exodus it would be minimal at best. The story states they lived in tents during their wandering years. That means they didn't erect cities of stone wood and mud brick three favorite building materials then. So looking for buildings wouldn't be advisable since the story states they weren't used and tents were.
So as a comparison we turn to wandering tribes using tents that we have knowledge about to see what they leave behind for evidence. Millions of natives lived in North America alone. How many sites do we have for those millions of wanderers? Few at most compared to the number we should have discovered. A lot of natural events can erase a culture's existence to nothing or a few findings that were nomadic in nature.
Personally I am not surprised that any evidence has been found. I will be surprised if evidence is found.


"The story states they lived in tents during their wandering years."

Ugh huh ..now point us to the scriptures that say that.

“ad victoriam”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#100152 Sep 26, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
You really need to get a grip on the fallacy of your thinking dude. There is not and there never has been "MASSIVE evidence to prove a global flood never happened. How you don't comprehend that fact I don't understand. What is your MASSIVE evidence? Lack of evidence for a flood? See, if a global flood never happened, it obviously and rationally can't leave MASSIVE evidence behind to prove it never happened. Understand? How fricking twisted will your thinking be on this?
At present, there is no scientific proof that supports a global flood took place. Isn't that easy to say?
We deduce the 5 extinction events in the history of life in the geological history of Earth. We can pinpoint the time it happened , and with humans our DNA itself would reflect this event as a genetic bottleneck.

Your flood beyond a being physical impossibility , is not reflected in the geological history of Earth.

There is no possible way we could miss this. As there would be evidence of a tsunami like event filled with human bones in the strata.

You are a believer of myth and exaggerated tales stretched to out right lies.

“Good day to you!”

Level 2

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#100153 Sep 26, 2013
The Dude wrote:
So all dead things have graves? Never heard of that one before.
<quoted text>
Just to clarify - your position is make any claim you like and it's valid even though you can't present a shred of evidence? Just trying to figure out how seriously you want to be taken.
Nothing I claim is valid unless I support actual evidence that science agrees with is true and accurate. My point was ridiculing those that claim their is existing evidence to prove what can't be shown to have existed never existed, understand? The opposite ludicracy is to claim there is existing evidence to prove what can't be proved to have existed did in fact exist.
At times what I have been discussing is my opinion of what could have taken place that is not based on actual evidence. Most call it the beginning of a hypothesis. Understand?

Of the dead body point I made consider this for relevance.
There is a story of an exodus. There is minimal weak circumstantial evidence for parts of the story. But there is no evidence for the exodus itself.
There are stories of four dictators killing 82 million to 182 million people in just several decades. There is evidence that they did kill people. There is minimal weak circumstantial evidence existing to prove 82 million to 182 million people were actually killed. There is no actual evidence existing to prove 82 million to 182 million people were killed.
Understand my point? Your's and other's logic can be applied to modern day history to cast doubt as to the historical accuracy because of the theory of 'missing evidence' you use to prove/show something didn't happen. Understand now?

“Good day to you!”

Level 2

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#100154 Sep 26, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
It contains a LOT of history, of the myths of the theologies of Christianity and Judaism. Of ACTUAL history, somewhat less so, especially when one takes into account of the fact that there's always "interpretation issues" (because everyone likes to claim what they think the writers meant), and then there's the REAL interpretation issues and reinterpretation issues and reinterpretation issues via multiple translations through the ages, the loss of the originals and the subsequent influences of the likes of Constantine and King James, etc.
Know whose other writings contain a lot of history? Egyptians. But that doesn't necessarily mean there existed man-Gods with heads of birds and dogs.
I agree with something I heard in youth.'The Bible's only as correct as it's been translated that way. And humans err. So as the Bible will be.'

“Good day to you!”

Level 2

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#100155 Sep 26, 2013
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
You write:
"Instead of trying to prove it didn't happen, open minds should be investigating the possibilities if it could have happened and forget the theism angle."
Open religious minds did investigate the possibility that there was a flood. It happened in the late 1600's / early 1700's when the scientists of the day (naturalists) started noticing things that did not fit in with a universal deluge.
Since those early time hundreds if not thousands of scientists have been looking for ANY sign of Noah's flood.
To sum up the scientific communities findings about a universal flood....NOTHING happened, it's a Hebrew myth.
No. It's a myth of cultures worldwide. It's factually NOT just a Hebrew myth. If it was just a Hebrew myth and no other culture spoke of it, you would have a great point. But you don't.
Other interesting facts have came to light in the searches people have made for or against the flood. Most (most) all mountains once laid flat and most (most) all sea/ocean floors once were sea level. That means at various times in the earth's aging, there was less land mass than now and more water mass. Sea fossils have been found near and on the tops of most mountains on this earth and fishing vessels are still pulling up sea fossils from hundreds of feet down laying on the sea floor from all over the earth. Drop stones from glaciers have been and still are being found at different depths in the oceans and on land where glaciers were never thought to have existed. New minds are having the opinion their is more water in the earth then there is on the earth.
The above is growing evidence that the possibility of this earth having flooded itself one or more times during it's aging and shape shifting is more and more probable thought still not provable.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#100156 Sep 26, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree with something I heard in youth.'The Bible's only as correct as it's been translated that way. And humans err. So as the Bible will be.'
Would a real God let his 'handbook' be mistranslated??

Or do you think a real God would not care enough to allow all the misinterpretations to pass on for thousands of years?

For a supreme being who is reputed to be omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent he doesn't seem to do crap.

Maybe he's not able.

Maybe he's not real.....

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#100157 Sep 26, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
No. It's a myth of cultures worldwide. It's factually NOT just a Hebrew myth. If it was just a Hebrew myth and no other culture spoke of it, you would have a great point. But you don't.
Other interesting facts have came to light in the searches people have made for or against the flood. Most (most) all mountains once laid flat and most (most) all sea/ocean floors once were sea level. That means at various times in the earth's aging, there was less land mass than now and more water mass. Sea fossils have been found near and on the tops of most mountains on this earth and fishing vessels are still pulling up sea fossils from hundreds of feet down laying on the sea floor from all over the earth. Drop stones from glaciers have been and still are being found at different depths in the oceans and on land where glaciers were never thought to have existed. New minds are having the opinion their is more water in the earth then there is on the earth.
The above is growing evidence that the possibility of this earth having flooded itself one or more times during it's aging and shape shifting is more and more probable thought still not provable.
All that crap happened millions of years ago, not 4300+- years ago.

You don't seem to understand that we can date most geological phenomenons.

“Good day to you!”

Level 2

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#100158 Sep 26, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Not really, as there are a number of good reasons for this:
1 - Plagiarism. Many religions in nearby areas are similar to each other as they literally took stories from earlier religions, such as Abrahamic religions taking the deluge story from the earlier Babylonian ones. However this does not explain stories from other parts of the world.
2 - There is massive evidence of great big massive floods, especially near the end of the last ice age around ten to eleven thousand years ago. These things affected many other places and not just the Middle East. Ergo other cultures wrote about them. There is also the severity of the phenomena - bar a supervolcano, there is NO more Earth-bound destructive force than a giant flood. Take the recent Tsunami for instance which quite literally traversed the entire planet numerous times over, but even this paled in comparison to some of those ancient floods. So while they were certainly powerful and significant enough to warrant some major mythmaking, the actual physics of the phenomena simply do not match the myths for reasons already explained, unless we suspend physics.
3 - As for other natural disasters you mention, fires, Earthquakes, you will likely find stories about those in multiple cultures too, but they simply are not as destructive nor their affects as long lasting. As for giant meteorite we haven't been hit with one of those for millions of years, which explains why no-one's got major stories about those.
<quoted text>
I won't use the term 'theist' as it's too broad, however creationists are fond of promoting the global flood myth as fact. However the facts are that geology does not support creationists. Creationists are NOT using the same material (evidence), they are using the Bible. Scientists use evidence, and the evidence points to no Biblical flood. Big massive floods, yes, but not to the extent of the Noah story.
<quoted text>
They were incorrect.
<quoted text>
Already happened. The closest you can get are numerous giant floods evident at the end of each ice age epoch. Other than that, stop complaining that your story has no evidence and conflicts with reality.
Informative and logical post I'll give you that. Reminds me of my old science teachers that went to great informative and logical rants for why nothing can survive without sunlight :)

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#100160 Sep 26, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Nooooooo..lol. Let's get this correct okay? There is no evidence to prove a global flood never happened. Understand? No evidence exists to prove a global flood never happened.
I'll second this....lets get this correct!

There are literally hundreds, maybe thousands, of real pieces of evidence that the flood NEVER happened....the evidence comes from practically ALL scientific disciplines.

Learn from science books instead of religious tracts....you'll be amazed.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#100167 Sep 26, 2013
richardIII wrote:
<quoted text>
"God" never told anyone anything, all we have are the words of men. Absolutely, the concept of a God is far fetched, so is life spontaneously springing from random molecules. I said I don't know, I also say no one else knows either. Without a doubt religions are an invention of man. Be thankful you weren't sitting around in the dark 4,000 years ago.
I'm thankful I wasn't sitting round in the dark, in Africa, with my fellow Homo-sapiens, 200,000 years ago.:-)

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#100168 Sep 26, 2013
richardIII wrote:
<quoted text>
What evidence? Many things scientists claim are only inferred, not proved. I know for a fact neither you nor I know what happened billions of years ago, no one does, just speculation and conjecture, our puny efforts to explain the unknowable..
200 years ago the vast majority of scientists would have ridiculed you for claiming there were invisible bugs that can effect our health.
You are only inferring that the Dude wasn't around billions of years ago. Is your claim of billions of years ago based on facts, inference or wild thinking? Why then is that OK, but the inferences and conclusions science makes based on evidence not OK?

I still haven't seen the little buggers that give me colds.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#100171 Sep 26, 2013
richardIII wrote:
<quoted text>
Haven't scientists been trying and failing for decades to duplicate what many believe happened billions of years ago in some primordial soup?
You're mixing your metaphors, of course mixing hydrogen and oxygen won't produce argon or platinum, they're both basic elements, water is a molecule. Just so happens I took a little chemistry in college, so I do know a little.
Chemicals were abundant on early Earth? Says who??. Are they still abundant?
Pardon me for inferring, but I think we can surmise that many chemicals were present in the beginning as the universe is/was full of them. As Carl Sagan said; "“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” &#8213; Carl Sagan, Cosmos

I trust him more then I trust your religious tracts

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#100172 Sep 26, 2013
richardIII wrote:
<quoted text>
Proof of receding flood waters would be virtually impossible to find, even from relatively short periods of time ago.
They were not looking at receding floodwater my friend. I suggest you read some science books and leave the religious tracts behind.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#100173 Sep 26, 2013
richardIII wrote:
<quoted text>
Buy a microscope and you can see the little buggers. Pretty sure there were no "dudes" around billions of years ago.
Not the buggers that cause colds. Not with a light microscope.

Why are you sure? Is it because you accept some of what science says?

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#100174 Sep 26, 2013
richardIII wrote:
<quoted text>
What evidence? Many things scientists claim are only inferred, not proved. I know for a fact neither you nor I know what happened billions of years ago, no one does, just speculation and conjecture, our puny efforts to explain the unknowable..
200 years ago the vast majority of scientists would have ridiculed you for claiming there were invisible bugs that can effect our health.
Are there very many Christians like you in Denver??

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#100175 Sep 26, 2013
richardIII wrote:
<quoted text>
Proof of receding flood waters would be virtually impossible to find, even from relatively short periods of time ago.
You should check out the evidence of the flood waters left behind by Lake Missoula floods 12,000-15,000 years ago. Evidence for that is still visible.

Would a global flood leave behind evidence?

“When you treat people as they ”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#100176 Sep 27, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Noo, there is a glitch. A big glitch from both pro and con sides of the flood story.
First, here's a fact about mythical floods/global floods and many predate the Bible flood story in age. http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/flood-myths.h...
The curious and un-explainable part is how all these separate different cultures for thousands of years spoke of flood stories instead of global fire stories or global earthquake stories or global ice age stories etc. Their preoccupation with flood/global stories makes no rational sense in light of all the other natural catastrophes they could have turned into a myth and didn't as they did with flood/global flood myths.
Next as to the 'glitch', theists behind the global flood myth assume it took place according to the Bible time line and assume the earth's geography looked then as it does now. Those against the myth are making their same calculations upon the same material theists use. Neither side will win for losing doing this.
The writer stated a global flood happened. Other cultures on this earth state in myth a global flood happened. Instead of trying to prove it didn't happen, open minds should be investigating the possibilities if it could have happened and forget the theism angle.
No glitch, do you acutely consider what your write? I quote –“a fact about mythical floods” May I suggest that you look up the meaning of fact and the meaning of myth, you may actually educate yourself.

Nothing curious about it, there have been floods and tsunamis since this lump of rock started collecting water. Geological fact, not myth. However in all cases, although some may have been quite large at the local level, none were global

Other natural disasters like say, earthquake? Do you not consider that some of the destruction attributed to a mythical god could have been caused by earthquake?

Genesis 19 : 29 And it came to pass, when God destroyed the cities of the plain…

The stories are of course centred around an area in which the European and Asian continents collide and are prone to earthquakes.

You need to remember that you are talking here about bronze age people with no concept of the global.

Nope, those that deny a global flood could have occurred are using such inconvenient material such as FACT, measurement, observation and education. Those that claim the flood as faith are taking the word of illiterate bronze age goat herders and escaped slaves.

As to who will win the argument, the side relying on facts will always wins because facts are facts and bronze age stories are not. That of course will never stop the faithful believing in a lie.

There is no way a global flood could have happened, There is one simple fact that shoots the myths in the foot, there simply is not, nor ever has been enough water.

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