Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Twin Cities

#100028 Sep 24, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
For 150 years evolution has failed to do one macro evolution the kind that Darwin talks about.
You think turning on and off light switches is magic. Who put those light switch in? No evolution. In every single instance that a species has been isolated and a new species proclaimed the fact is the isolation has caused the "new" species has lost DNA!
NEVER ONCE has it added DNA.
Mutated DNA yes never new DNA.
Evolution hard at work is seen in massive inbreeding. Look how well those mutation have created such improved humans.
See Cybele's reply to another post above.#100022

I keep telling you, but you don't seem to comprehend. Science doesn't know it all at once....baby steps man, baby steps

And just because we don't know right now, that doesn't mean we won't know next week or next year, etc. and it's definitely not a space you try and push YOUR God into because we will inevitably burn you.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Twin Cities

#100029 Sep 24, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
For 150 years evolution has failed to do one macro evolution the kind that Darwin talks about.
You think turning on and off light switches is magic. Who put those light switch in? No evolution. In every single instance that a species has been isolated and a new species proclaimed the fact is the isolation has caused the "new" species has lost DNA!
NEVER ONCE has it added DNA.
Mutated DNA yes never new DNA.
Evolution hard at work is seen in massive inbreeding. Look how well those mutation have created such improved humans.
Like I said WE have ALL the evidence....you have none.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Twin Cities

#100031 Sep 24, 2013
richardIII wrote:
<quoted text>
Think some more, evolutionists believe the 2-3 molecule theory merely because they have nothing else to believe. Me? I don't have a clue where we came from.
So there is only Abiogenesis /evolution, or creationism??

How about the fact that the connection has been made from humans to earlier hominids such as Homo-neanderthalensis, Homo-heidelbergensis, Homo-erectus, etc....we ARE blood related, we are of the great ape line.

What does this do to the fundamentalists belief that mankind was only created few thousand years ago and there was not all those inconvenient earlier hominids running around for over a million years (some of them).

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#100032 Sep 24, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
US Gallons? Short measure?
The imperial gallon was removed from the list of legally defined primary units of measure catalogued in the EU directive 80/181/EEC, US gallons did not even register
I donít drink so much but when I do I prefer Cognac but a few trillion gallons of a good single malt would not go amiss
I'll see you a malt and raise you a army!
Now Daenerys Targaryen, what do you wish us dragons and menz to do?
:)

The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#100033 Sep 25, 2013
I AM SIRIUS wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't care, NASA and other science institutions are doing the job you cannot do.
You might have a point if I was disagreeing with them. I don't. None of these scientific organisations are claiming evidence of aliens or magical wizards beyond the universal boundary. If they are, then they are not scientific organisations. They are places like the Discovery Institute.
I AM SIRIUS wrote:
If there is no design in nature and the universe, why do scientists use DNA microarray to study gene expression "patterns?"
If we are all products of millions of mutations for millions of years, provide evidence that mutations produce patterns in gene expression.
That should be easy, since we have ample knowledge of genetics and available computers that can do the work.
Life. There, that was easy wasn't it? If you're interested (which you aren't) you could look up emergent properties which is the study of how repeatable patterns develop naturally via natural forces.

Problem with fundies is they think the opposite of "intelligence" is "random".
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#100034 Sep 25, 2013
Cybele wrote:
Stop the useless banter and get your brain to work and be productive. Make yourself useful. I'm sick and tired of these nonsense arguments. Pointless.
Go away then.(shrug)
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#100035 Sep 25, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
All molecules have patterns based on atoms bonding with other atoms. You absolutely have no idea how atoms bond and create its own patterns. Do you?
If you have an explanation of how atomic bonding requires intelligent intervention (possible by magic Jews) then by all means, present it.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#100036 Sep 25, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
What kind of doctor are you, asking evidence for an allegorical literature? You have reduced your IQ for a minute here.
Well gee bub, but have you seen the title thread at all? Have you seen the other fundies around here (such as Tsar) who are arguing for EXACTLY that? Ya know, that reality ain't real cuz the Bible sez so. Whereas others are claiming that reality ain't real because *their interpretation* of an allegorical text is correct.

In the meantime the rest of us are saying that the text is not totally accurate either way and that reality is real no matter how much fundies like to whine about it.(shrug)
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#100037 Sep 25, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
No design by "anything" at all?
Sure there's design. Humans, birds, beavers... they all design stuff.
Cybele wrote:
And yet atheists
Atheism? I'm sorry but theology is irrelevant to the validity of science. Or is this just another admission that your alternative to science is Godmagic? Which might even be true, but it's not science.
Cybele wrote:
present their case with a "common ancestor" whom they have no idea what it really is.
Our DNA is a measure of how closely related organisms are. Either you dispute the existence of DNA, or you accept this but only to a certain nebulously arbitrary point, at which point DNA for some reason stops working like we observe and works in a totally different manner, and in some way justifies invisible Jewish magic.
Cybele wrote:
They mock the Adam and Eve relatedness, and yet assert that we are related to apes. You see how that logic sound ridiculous?
Yes, because the Adam and Eve scenario is not genetically viable, unless they already have plenty of other humans to reproduce with. The Adam and Eve scenario requires bonking sisters and brothers which inevitably leads to inbreeding and the ultimate demise of humanity, the complete opposite of what is observed. Creationists get around this problem by saying Godmagic solves any and all problems.

In which case evidence is completely totally and utterly meaningless to their position.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#100038 Sep 25, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually if you think about the ancestors we are have to evolved from didn't appear all at once as a population so they had to do inbreeding their selves, duh!
Unlikely, since sexual reproduction didn't arise until a lot later.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#100039 Sep 25, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
false dichotomy. Fail.
Don't blame us, it's not OUR false dichotomy. Evolution and all the other scientific concepts you disagree with for theological reasons could easily still occur even if there is an invisible magic Jew responsible for it all.

It all depends on how much you want to limit the Almighty Lord and Creator of the entire universe.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#100040 Sep 25, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
For 150 years evolution has failed to do one macro evolution the kind that Darwin talks about.
You think turning on and off light switches is magic. Who put those light switch in? No evolution. In every single instance that a species has been isolated and a new species proclaimed the fact is the isolation has caused the "new" species has lost DNA!
NEVER ONCE has it added DNA.
Mutated DNA yes never new DNA.
Evolution hard at work is seen in massive inbreeding. Look how well those mutation have created such improved humans.
Astronomy is such nonsense. After all these centuries, we have not built a single star.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#100041 Sep 25, 2013
Cybele wrote:
How did the first living cellular organisms come to existence? If we evolved from them, how did they come to life without a creator or some kind of force?
There WAS some kind of force which developed life. No-one claims otherwise. Creationists lie and say that WE say that life came from nothing.
Cybele wrote:
What is this common ancestor that spawned everything?
It's specific characteristics are unknown at this time.
Cybele wrote:
What genetic information might it have had that it was capable of mutating successfully and produce a different species?
Since ALL genetics mutates this is a meaningless question.
Cybele wrote:
Do you have evidence that mutations produce patterns in genetic expression?
As is this, since ALL genetics is a "pattern". DNA replicates itself. Therefore if we have some DNA which replicates itself exactly then we have a pattern of characteristics which is observable in both samples. However DNA does not replicate precisely, as there is always mutations with each generation. This ALSO produces a pattern, a pattern of change, which can be measured. For instance your particular DNA pattern is roughly 50% your father's DNA, 50% your mothers, plus around 125 to 175 mutations which neither of your parents have. The same with your kids. And their kids. And theirs. And so on and so forth. This produces a pattern of nested hierarchy. Nested hierarchies are observable in both DNA and the fossil record. There is no reason this pattern of hierarchies should match if evolution were incorrect.

If it makes you feel better to say that God is responsible for all this, then have a ball. Just don't pretend that your claim has anything to do with science.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#100042 Sep 25, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Problem with fundies is they think the opposite of "intelligence" is "random".
Thats for sure. And the babblings of those like Ben Stein who pretend the same but know better dont help.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#100043 Sep 25, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
(BS) Brilliant Statement "thank you."
Oh, my mistake. I'll try to be more precise in the future.

"More bullshit the the arrogant turd Tzar."

Is that better?

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#100044 Sep 25, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry "this is where all the laws of physics break down" is science invoking magic. Science must follow the rules.
And leave out all the magic and religion.
More bullshit the the arrogant turd Tzar.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#100045 Sep 25, 2013
Lawrence Wolf wrote:
<quoted text>You keep accusing me of offering "magic" as an explanation of the origins of life. If you can find even a hint of that in anything I've said, I'll back down right now.
I see your memory is so poor that you totally forgot your rather silly claim that the scientific community in general was "running" from abiogenesis in favour of Godmagic. A claim which you'll ONLY hear in fundie religious circles.
Lawrence Wolf wrote:
The smugness comes from a certitude that your reasoning is correct, on a subject where we could all benefit from a little humility, and a condescending attitude toward anyone who dares disagree with you.
You wouldn't be saying the same if I was telling you that gravity works without the apparent intervention of leprechauns. But this is EXACTLY what is happening here. Only it's being applied to biology and not gravitational phyics.

In fact give it time, and it WILL be being applied to literally EVERY scientific field. After all, Cybele has already mentioned "patterns"...
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#100046 Sep 25, 2013
Cybele wrote:
Evolution and creation proponents do not agree with 7 day creation because both sides take the literal interpretation of the bible, which is really ridiculous.
One day did not equal 24 hours during that era of creation because when the sun was created, it did not form "instantly" to give its full function of producing daylight in a 24 hour day cycle. In other words, during its inception it did not fully give a 24 hour cycle to complete one full day that we observe now. Not until later, when planets, moons, asteroids and meteors were formed to be our solar system. So if this Creator did say, "I completed one full day!" get a clue.
Good. Then we agree that the Bible is not an accurate representation of reality and can therefore be dismissed as a valid scientific text.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#100047 Sep 25, 2013
Lawrence Wolf wrote:
<quoted text>You, sir or madam, are an a'hole. If you had kept up with the conversation, you would have learned that I am no fan of the bible, or sons of god, or any religious explanations for the origins of life. Shoo!
You sir or madam are a religious nut. Your baseless religious opinions aren't worth their weight in poop and reality does not care what your beliefs are. You have used a reality-denying fundie nut as a "scientific source" despite the fact he believes the Flinstones is a science documentary. You have yet to make a retraction. Therefore your opinion that we are all just a bunch of "meanies" for DARING to disagree with YOU of all people, can be similarly dismissed.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#100048 Sep 25, 2013
Lawrence Wolf wrote:
<quoted text>Horseshit, Dude. This dance is over.
Bye then.(shrug)

It's never over though. Never will be as long as fundies exist.

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