Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 223384 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

“Good day to you!”

Level 2

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#100155 Sep 26, 2013
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
You write:
"Instead of trying to prove it didn't happen, open minds should be investigating the possibilities if it could have happened and forget the theism angle."
Open religious minds did investigate the possibility that there was a flood. It happened in the late 1600's / early 1700's when the scientists of the day (naturalists) started noticing things that did not fit in with a universal deluge.
Since those early time hundreds if not thousands of scientists have been looking for ANY sign of Noah's flood.
To sum up the scientific communities findings about a universal flood....NOTHING happened, it's a Hebrew myth.
No. It's a myth of cultures worldwide. It's factually NOT just a Hebrew myth. If it was just a Hebrew myth and no other culture spoke of it, you would have a great point. But you don't.
Other interesting facts have came to light in the searches people have made for or against the flood. Most (most) all mountains once laid flat and most (most) all sea/ocean floors once were sea level. That means at various times in the earth's aging, there was less land mass than now and more water mass. Sea fossils have been found near and on the tops of most mountains on this earth and fishing vessels are still pulling up sea fossils from hundreds of feet down laying on the sea floor from all over the earth. Drop stones from glaciers have been and still are being found at different depths in the oceans and on land where glaciers were never thought to have existed. New minds are having the opinion their is more water in the earth then there is on the earth.
The above is growing evidence that the possibility of this earth having flooded itself one or more times during it's aging and shape shifting is more and more probable thought still not provable.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#100156 Sep 26, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree with something I heard in youth.'The Bible's only as correct as it's been translated that way. And humans err. So as the Bible will be.'
Would a real God let his 'handbook' be mistranslated??

Or do you think a real God would not care enough to allow all the misinterpretations to pass on for thousands of years?

For a supreme being who is reputed to be omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent he doesn't seem to do crap.

Maybe he's not able.

Maybe he's not real.....

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#100157 Sep 26, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
No. It's a myth of cultures worldwide. It's factually NOT just a Hebrew myth. If it was just a Hebrew myth and no other culture spoke of it, you would have a great point. But you don't.
Other interesting facts have came to light in the searches people have made for or against the flood. Most (most) all mountains once laid flat and most (most) all sea/ocean floors once were sea level. That means at various times in the earth's aging, there was less land mass than now and more water mass. Sea fossils have been found near and on the tops of most mountains on this earth and fishing vessels are still pulling up sea fossils from hundreds of feet down laying on the sea floor from all over the earth. Drop stones from glaciers have been and still are being found at different depths in the oceans and on land where glaciers were never thought to have existed. New minds are having the opinion their is more water in the earth then there is on the earth.
The above is growing evidence that the possibility of this earth having flooded itself one or more times during it's aging and shape shifting is more and more probable thought still not provable.
All that crap happened millions of years ago, not 4300+- years ago.

You don't seem to understand that we can date most geological phenomenons.

“Good day to you!”

Level 2

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#100158 Sep 26, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Not really, as there are a number of good reasons for this:
1 - Plagiarism. Many religions in nearby areas are similar to each other as they literally took stories from earlier religions, such as Abrahamic religions taking the deluge story from the earlier Babylonian ones. However this does not explain stories from other parts of the world.
2 - There is massive evidence of great big massive floods, especially near the end of the last ice age around ten to eleven thousand years ago. These things affected many other places and not just the Middle East. Ergo other cultures wrote about them. There is also the severity of the phenomena - bar a supervolcano, there is NO more Earth-bound destructive force than a giant flood. Take the recent Tsunami for instance which quite literally traversed the entire planet numerous times over, but even this paled in comparison to some of those ancient floods. So while they were certainly powerful and significant enough to warrant some major mythmaking, the actual physics of the phenomena simply do not match the myths for reasons already explained, unless we suspend physics.
3 - As for other natural disasters you mention, fires, Earthquakes, you will likely find stories about those in multiple cultures too, but they simply are not as destructive nor their affects as long lasting. As for giant meteorite we haven't been hit with one of those for millions of years, which explains why no-one's got major stories about those.
<quoted text>
I won't use the term 'theist' as it's too broad, however creationists are fond of promoting the global flood myth as fact. However the facts are that geology does not support creationists. Creationists are NOT using the same material (evidence), they are using the Bible. Scientists use evidence, and the evidence points to no Biblical flood. Big massive floods, yes, but not to the extent of the Noah story.
<quoted text>
They were incorrect.
<quoted text>
Already happened. The closest you can get are numerous giant floods evident at the end of each ice age epoch. Other than that, stop complaining that your story has no evidence and conflicts with reality.
Informative and logical post I'll give you that. Reminds me of my old science teachers that went to great informative and logical rants for why nothing can survive without sunlight :)

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#100160 Sep 26, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Nooooooo..lol. Let's get this correct okay? There is no evidence to prove a global flood never happened. Understand? No evidence exists to prove a global flood never happened.
I'll second this....lets get this correct!

There are literally hundreds, maybe thousands, of real pieces of evidence that the flood NEVER happened....the evidence comes from practically ALL scientific disciplines.

Learn from science books instead of religious tracts....you'll be amazed.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#100167 Sep 26, 2013
richardIII wrote:
<quoted text>
"God" never told anyone anything, all we have are the words of men. Absolutely, the concept of a God is far fetched, so is life spontaneously springing from random molecules. I said I don't know, I also say no one else knows either. Without a doubt religions are an invention of man. Be thankful you weren't sitting around in the dark 4,000 years ago.
I'm thankful I wasn't sitting round in the dark, in Africa, with my fellow Homo-sapiens, 200,000 years ago.:-)

“Merry Christmas”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#100168 Sep 26, 2013
richardIII wrote:
<quoted text>
What evidence? Many things scientists claim are only inferred, not proved. I know for a fact neither you nor I know what happened billions of years ago, no one does, just speculation and conjecture, our puny efforts to explain the unknowable..
200 years ago the vast majority of scientists would have ridiculed you for claiming there were invisible bugs that can effect our health.
You are only inferring that the Dude wasn't around billions of years ago. Is your claim of billions of years ago based on facts, inference or wild thinking? Why then is that OK, but the inferences and conclusions science makes based on evidence not OK?

I still haven't seen the little buggers that give me colds.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#100171 Sep 26, 2013
richardIII wrote:
<quoted text>
Haven't scientists been trying and failing for decades to duplicate what many believe happened billions of years ago in some primordial soup?
You're mixing your metaphors, of course mixing hydrogen and oxygen won't produce argon or platinum, they're both basic elements, water is a molecule. Just so happens I took a little chemistry in college, so I do know a little.
Chemicals were abundant on early Earth? Says who??. Are they still abundant?
Pardon me for inferring, but I think we can surmise that many chemicals were present in the beginning as the universe is/was full of them. As Carl Sagan said; "“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” &#8213; Carl Sagan, Cosmos

I trust him more then I trust your religious tracts

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#100172 Sep 26, 2013
richardIII wrote:
<quoted text>
Proof of receding flood waters would be virtually impossible to find, even from relatively short periods of time ago.
They were not looking at receding floodwater my friend. I suggest you read some science books and leave the religious tracts behind.

“Merry Christmas”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#100173 Sep 26, 2013
richardIII wrote:
<quoted text>
Buy a microscope and you can see the little buggers. Pretty sure there were no "dudes" around billions of years ago.
Not the buggers that cause colds. Not with a light microscope.

Why are you sure? Is it because you accept some of what science says?

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#100174 Sep 26, 2013
richardIII wrote:
<quoted text>
What evidence? Many things scientists claim are only inferred, not proved. I know for a fact neither you nor I know what happened billions of years ago, no one does, just speculation and conjecture, our puny efforts to explain the unknowable..
200 years ago the vast majority of scientists would have ridiculed you for claiming there were invisible bugs that can effect our health.
Are there very many Christians like you in Denver??

“Merry Christmas”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#100175 Sep 26, 2013
richardIII wrote:
<quoted text>
Proof of receding flood waters would be virtually impossible to find, even from relatively short periods of time ago.
You should check out the evidence of the flood waters left behind by Lake Missoula floods 12,000-15,000 years ago. Evidence for that is still visible.

Would a global flood leave behind evidence?

“Be strong ...”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

...I whispered to my coffee

#100176 Sep 27, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Noo, there is a glitch. A big glitch from both pro and con sides of the flood story.
First, here's a fact about mythical floods/global floods and many predate the Bible flood story in age. http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/flood-myths.h...
The curious and un-explainable part is how all these separate different cultures for thousands of years spoke of flood stories instead of global fire stories or global earthquake stories or global ice age stories etc. Their preoccupation with flood/global stories makes no rational sense in light of all the other natural catastrophes they could have turned into a myth and didn't as they did with flood/global flood myths.
Next as to the 'glitch', theists behind the global flood myth assume it took place according to the Bible time line and assume the earth's geography looked then as it does now. Those against the myth are making their same calculations upon the same material theists use. Neither side will win for losing doing this.
The writer stated a global flood happened. Other cultures on this earth state in myth a global flood happened. Instead of trying to prove it didn't happen, open minds should be investigating the possibilities if it could have happened and forget the theism angle.
No glitch, do you acutely consider what your write? I quote –“a fact about mythical floods” May I suggest that you look up the meaning of fact and the meaning of myth, you may actually educate yourself.

Nothing curious about it, there have been floods and tsunamis since this lump of rock started collecting water. Geological fact, not myth. However in all cases, although some may have been quite large at the local level, none were global

Other natural disasters like say, earthquake? Do you not consider that some of the destruction attributed to a mythical god could have been caused by earthquake?

Genesis 19 : 29 And it came to pass, when God destroyed the cities of the plain…

The stories are of course centred around an area in which the European and Asian continents collide and are prone to earthquakes.

You need to remember that you are talking here about bronze age people with no concept of the global.

Nope, those that deny a global flood could have occurred are using such inconvenient material such as FACT, measurement, observation and education. Those that claim the flood as faith are taking the word of illiterate bronze age goat herders and escaped slaves.

As to who will win the argument, the side relying on facts will always wins because facts are facts and bronze age stories are not. That of course will never stop the faithful believing in a lie.

There is no way a global flood could have happened, There is one simple fact that shoots the myths in the foot, there simply is not, nor ever has been enough water.

“Be strong ...”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

...I whispered to my coffee

#100177 Sep 27, 2013
richardIII wrote:
<quoted text>
Proof of receding flood waters would be virtually impossible to find, even from relatively short periods of time ago.
The geological column is full of the evidence of floods, some dating back millions of years. None however are global and non require as much water as is indicated in the babble (how many cubits above the highest mountain?)…

You do realise of course that the highest mountain rises almost 9,000 metres above sea level. The amount of water that currently exits on earth and covers about 70% of it’s surface is an average depth of 800 metres and comprises of oceans, lakes, rivers and known underground reservoirs. That in no way accounts for many times more water required to completely fill it to an extra depth of 9,000 metres.

This is obviously something that as a good fundy christian you have not bothered thinking about because the truth contradicts your fiction.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#100178 Sep 27, 2013
Cybele wrote:
I guess you don't keep up with the news. That's why you don't care about other life forms from another planets. It's a possibility.
Yes, life on other planets is a very real possibility.

Yes, panspermia is also a possibility.

Your game of constantly shift the goalposts does not hide the fact you have zero point to make, especially in light of the fact I have denied neither of these as a possibility.
Cybele wrote:
You have not provided any answers here. If so, you would've explained it by now.
I have not claimed to have the answers to everything, but out of the two of us, only one has provided any answers at all.

And it ain't you.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#100179 Sep 27, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
There is evidence of deaths. But there is no existing evidence to prove that somewhere between 82 million to 182 million people were killed by those four dictators. You won't find that many dead decaying bodies to prove those numbers anywhere.
Do we have evidence for an exodus of Hebrews/Israelites from Egypt? No. Does that mean it didn't take place and never happened? Yes to those that wish not to believe it could have 'possibly' taken place. People that wish not to believe something is possible will always be the first to prove what a closed mind is again and again ....
On the contrary, there is no evidence that aliens have been coming in spaceships for millions of years conducting breeding experiments. In pretty dresses. But it would be closed-minded not to believe in it, right?
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#100180 Sep 27, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
The only nonsense here is what you keep stating that you somehow refuse to understand the obvious, but to each their own.
The 'saying' that we only use ten percent of the mind does not mean that only ten percent of the brain is functioning while the other ninety percent lays like dead waste matter. That isn't what the saying meant. But the fact that people like yourself have taken that saying so literally proves what the saying actually means lol.
Brain scans have shown the entire 'normal' brain is fully 100% active. But. But brain scans have also shown that in the brains of people with great creative thinking, their is factually more activity in their brains than in the brain scan of a person who has less creative thinking.
Maybe you should take a non-negative brain breather and read the following link that better spells out my point.
A fat guy uses 100% of his body just like a sportsman, it's just that the sportsman is more active. So in other words you were wrong and repeating an old fallacy and now attempting to get around it by posting something which DOESN'T support you.

It's was just another old wives tale, like "law" of gravity, or "missing link". Public latches onto these terms anyway because most of them don't know better. Nothing more complicated than that.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#100181 Sep 27, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Nooooooo..lol. Let's get this correct okay? There is no evidence to prove a global flood never happened. Understand? No evidence exists to prove a global flood never happened. That statement is the thinking mentality of a shut mind working from absolutes, not possibilities.
Sorry, pal, but you are completely wrong. Local floods, sure. But there is no evidence that a global flood ever happened. You can start with the Atacama Desert.
No Surprise wrote:
The correct thing to state would be at present there is no scientific evidence to show a global flood took place.
See last comment.
No Surprise wrote:
You seem to be open for some 'possibilities' so let me pitch a question to you and anyone else that wants to make an opinion about it.
The ancient Rocky mountains are thought to of been over 3000 metershttps://gsa.confex.com/g sa/2002AM/finalprogram/abstrac t_42865.htm
The tallest Rocky mountain today is said to be Elbert that's just over 1000 meters.
I hiked the Rocky mountains. If anyone else has, you may of had the chance to come across fossilized sea life laying on the ground as I did with friends and or family.
These fossils were found near and at the tops of various peaks low and high in elevation.
My question is how many times was the seabed being pushed up to slowly form the Rockies, how many times do you suppose this land area being pushed up was flood by seas time and time again so that 2000 meters later sea fossils are still being found at or near the peaks of various mountains in this chain?
I am always open to possibilities and I am aware of fossils found both on and inside mountains. However, how many times the seabed may have pushed up is immaterial. Whether once or a hundred times. As I stated earlier, there has been no significant change in the earth's topography since modern humans have been in existence.

If you have scientific evidence to the contrary, let's hear it.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#100182 Sep 27, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
Nooooooo..lol. Let's get this correct okay? There is no evidence to prove a global flood never happened. Understand? No evidence exists to prove a global flood never happened. That statement is the thinking mentality of a shut mind working from absolutes, not possibilities.
Yes, we understand. You are flat wrong. Here's a number of reasons why:

1 - There is, quite literally, no geological evidence to support it.

2 -Life survived. This is not a possibility in any form under a global flood scenario. Unless we invoke magic.

But since you ARE making excuses for Biblical literacy then magic what you're attempting to justify. This means evidence is irrelevant, because there is no configuration of evidence which is incompatible with magic.

You can stop pretending your claims have anything to do with science now.
No Surprise wrote:
The correct thing to state would be at present there is no scientific evidence to show a global flood took place.
And plenty against it. However despite the problems already been described to you you have completely ignored them and called us "meanies" for not considering the possibility that physics itself was suspended for 40 days just so you can say "The Bible is true!!!"
No Surprise wrote:
You seem to be open for some 'possibilities' so let me pitch a question to you and anyone else that wants to make an opinion about it.
The ancient Rocky mountains are thought to of been over 3000 metershttps://gsa.confex.com/g sa/2002AM/finalprogram/abstrac t_42865.htm
The tallest Rocky mountain today is said to be Elbert that's just over 1000 meters.
I hiked the Rocky mountains. If anyone else has, you may of had the chance to come across fossilized sea life laying on the ground as I did with friends and or family.
These fossils were found near and at the tops of various peaks low and high in elevation.
My question is how many times was the seabed being pushed up to slowly form the Rockies, how many times do you suppose this land area being pushed up was flood by seas time and time again so that 2000 meters later sea fossils are still being found at or near the peaks of various mountains in this chain?
It's called mountain-building. Land formerly underwater rises due to geological processes. Hence marine fossils in upper layers of mountains. INTACT fossils even. INSIDE solid rock. Floods cannot do that. Especially when temps reach sun-like levels.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#100183 Sep 27, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
I was of the same mind thought once. Then after I watched how quickly the land and seafloor volcanic activity changed Hawaii, how the Scablands were shown to have been brought to be in a succession of floods and not millions of years of time and how science has shown how a single ancient super volcano changed the landscape of the Mediterranean and even now with the sudden apearence of a single island, http://www.livescience.com/39922-pakistan-ear... I leave my self open to 'possibilities.'
One should always be open to possibilities. However, clinging to 'possibilities' in the face of all evidence to the contrary is not indicative of an open mind but a closed one. KAB is an excellent example of this type of thinking,

Yes, there have been any number of cataclysmic events throughout the history of the earth. Just this week Pakistan was graced with a brand new island:

http://news.discovery.com/earth/rocks-fossils...

Even so, the energy released by flattening out the entire surface of the earth to permit said flood would be more than simply cataclysmic. It would have incinerated the entire planet and destroyed *all* life. Noah & company included.

Unless, of course, you invoke magic.

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