Evolution vs. Creation

Full story: Best of New Orleans

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

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#99726
Sep 17, 2013
 

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Chimney1 wrote:
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No, it could be entirely false, or parts of it could be false.
The person I responded to stated the first two books of the Bible were false. They didn't state 'parts' or 'portions' of the first two books of the Bible were false. I responded to what they stated, not what they didn't state. Understand?

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#99727
Sep 17, 2013
 

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Chimney1 wrote:
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No, it could be entirely false, or parts of it could be false.
Even the second case shows its not the inerrant word of God. Its a mythical / historical chronicle of the Israelites.
Just like the Iliad and The Odyssey are mythical / historical records of the early Greeks.
Now, in the latter we see Greeks mingling with their Gods, and we also see them attacking Troy. We found Troy in 1880ish - a historical reality and sacked at about the right time too....does that mean that Achilles was REALLY the half human son of Thetis the River Goddess?
Its no surprise to find some historical aspects of the Bible are true. But others have been found wanting in the facts department.
And as we would expect, its the earliest parts that are the most mythical.
If you really believe in God, I suggest that His universe as revealed by our observation and logic is far harder to fake than a few old fables from an obscure source. Even the light from many stars took thousands of times longer than the allowed "6000 years" to reach us. Did God fake that or did early cultures get the timing wrong????
I never said I could explain the theory of theism and creation any more than I claimed I could explain how after some supposed 'big bang' the first biological matter came from non-biological matter.
Consider this. In thought we use at most 10% of our brain's capacity. Consider if a single individual on this earth was able to use 100% of their brain in thought.
See, we humans have proved in thought we are geared to 'invent' and inventing has no limits for us. Just in the last century we have taken from materials and have caused to be examples of biology to exist that didn't exist before, hybrids we call them. We've crossbred different fruits and different vegetables so new species exist that didn't exist before. We're creating things all the time.
Well take that one person who had the talent to use 1005 of their brain in thought and consider what they could create/invent from what already exists. No more cancer? Flight without fuel? a replacement for electricity? Humans living till 200 to 300 years of age? What could this mind do for the populating of another planet? Could they be it's god? Could they bring together from existing materials the matter to be used and shaped and harnessed to bring a dead lifeless planet to one thriving with life?
I believe our comprehension of what 'God' could really be should be reexamined and based upon what we do just using one tenth of our brain for thought. Just saying...

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#99728
Sep 17, 2013
 
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Does your 'modern science' include the creation of the universe in six twenty-four hour days 6000 years ago?
Does your 'modern science' ignore the VAST amount of evidence that shows conclusively that a world-wide flood 4500+/- years ago is impossible?
Does your 'modern science' explain how a grown man can live survive 3 days in the 'belly of a great fish'?
I don't believe the earth was created in 6000 human years or heaven days etc.

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#99729
Sep 17, 2013
 
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>the expansion of a singularity.
Whence the singularity?

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#99730
Sep 17, 2013
 
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't believe the earth was created in 6000 human years or heaven days etc.
So then you agree that at least portions of the Bible are metaphorical or allegorical?

But you still believe in a LITERAL world-wide flood 4500 years ago, and Jonah/Whale?

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#99731
Sep 17, 2013
 
spOko wrote:
<quoted text> And it will also destroy us!<quoted text>
You seem convinced, but it will have to beat our own desire to do so.

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#99732
Sep 17, 2013
 

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MikeF wrote:
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Whoa! That's a whole lot of claims here, bud. Got any references to back these up or are we simply to take your word for it?
People read without considering what is being said, just saying :)

9 And God said,“Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so.

The writer of Genesis understood plural and singular. In Genesis the writer used words in plural many many times. They also used words in singular tense. If the writer knew that bodies of water separated land masses and that Islands of land did in fact exist in large and small sizes, it's curious that the writer would reference all words concerning land and ground in the singular and never in the plural in Genesis concerning the creation of things. Neither did the writer use the word 'islands' as other later writers would use it.
The writer's story insinuates/suggests the existence of a single landmass existing in the beginning of the creation of the earth instead of 'lands/isles/islands' of lands being made to exist.
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#99733
Sep 17, 2013
 
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
You seem convinced, but it will have to beat our own desire to do so.
The tiny, tiny blue speck in the universe?
spOko

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#99734
Sep 17, 2013
 
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
People read without considering what is being said, just saying :)
9 And God said,“Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so.
Or so someone claims :-)
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
The writer of Genesis understood plural and singular. In Genesis the writer used words in plural many many times. They also used words in singular tense. If the writer knew that bodies of water separated land masses and that Islands of land did in fact exist in large and small sizes, it's curious that the writer would reference all words concerning land and ground in the singular and never in the plural in Genesis concerning the creation of things. Neither did the writer use the word 'islands' as other later writers would use it.
The writer's story insinuates/suggests the existence of a single landmass existing in the beginning of the creation of the earth instead of 'lands/isles/islands' of lands being made to exist.

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#99735
Sep 17, 2013
 
TO PGARDNER 31 -

Will Christ's return be literal or allegorical?
(You left no room for a direct reply.)

In any case, I think you make a good argument for your particular perspective.
One question: Was all the brutality and savagery in the bible meant as allegory?

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#99736
Sep 17, 2013
 
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
lol...my 'cult information sources' are a thing called 'modern science'. Modern science has stated after research that there's more water in the crust of the earth than what's on the surface. Maybe you should research this 'cult information' eh?
Give me just the link about the underground water

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#99737
Sep 17, 2013
 
spOko wrote:
<quoted text>
The tiny, tiny blue speck in the universe?

Dynamite comes in a small package.
The results are no less than "explosive".

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

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#99738
Sep 17, 2013
 
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
People read without considering what is being said, just saying :)
9 And God said,“Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so.
The writer of Genesis understood plural and singular. In Genesis the writer used words in plural many many times. They also used words in singular tense. If the writer knew that bodies of water separated land masses and that Islands of land did in fact exist in large and small sizes, it's curious that the writer would reference all words concerning land and ground in the singular and never in the plural in Genesis concerning the creation of things. Neither did the writer use the word 'islands' as other later writers would use it.
The writer's story insinuates/suggests the existence of a single landmass existing in the beginning of the creation of the earth instead of 'lands/isles/islands' of lands being made to exist.
The problem for you is that we know when the dry land was just one mass, and when it split and started forming the different continents and Islands.

We're talking many 10's of millions of years ago.

The writer of Genesis (supposedly Moses around 1200-1300 BC)left all these genealogies that some have interpreted to place the formation of the universe,earth, and every thing else at about 5,000 to 4,000 BC

This is simply not true....EVERY available bit of information that mankind has gathered about our past refutes this....NOTHING supports this young earth scenario.

Your cult is lying to you.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

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#99739
Sep 17, 2013
 
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
I never said I could explain the theory of theism and creation any more than I claimed I could explain how after some supposed 'big bang' the first biological matter came from non-biological matter.
Consider this. In thought we use at most 10% of our brain's capacity. Consider if a single individual on this earth was able to use 100% of their brain in thought.
See, we humans have proved in thought we are geared to 'invent' and inventing has no limits for us. Just in the last century we have taken from materials and have caused to be examples of biology to exist that didn't exist before, hybrids we call them. We've crossbred different fruits and different vegetables so new species exist that didn't exist before. We're creating things all the time.
Well take that one person who had the talent to use 1005 of their brain in thought and consider what they could create/invent from what already exists. No more cancer? Flight without fuel? a replacement for electricity? Humans living till 200 to 300 years of age? What could this mind do for the populating of another planet? Could they be it's god? Could they bring together from existing materials the matter to be used and shaped and harnessed to bring a dead lifeless planet to one thriving with life?
I believe our comprehension of what 'God' could really be should be reexamined and based upon what we do just using one tenth of our brain for thought. Just saying...
That old trope that we only use 10% of our brain turns out to not be true.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm...

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#99740
Sep 17, 2013
 
So many creation myths ...
to which does humanity akin to ? I shake my head at people pushing their own belief on others as it is a personal path they should take to see which they feel akin to.

http://www.gly.uga.edu/railsback/CS/CSIndex.h...

Find your own way

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#99741
Sep 17, 2013
 
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
Give me just the link about the underground water
This is one link from a growing number of scientists in various fields that believe there is more water beneath the earth then there is on it.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/krulwich/2011/06/23/...

So I asked him: "If you had to make a rough calculation, right now, and no one's going to hold you to it, how much water do you think we have on earth?" And he said a conservative (albeit blind) guess would be the earth today carries with it 3 global oceans of water, 1/3 on top, where we can swim in it, sail on it, drink it, get rained on by it, and 2/3rds down below where it sits silently with the minerals.

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#99742
Sep 17, 2013
 
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
So then you agree that at least portions of the Bible are metaphorical or allegorical?
But you still believe in a LITERAL world-wide flood 4500 years ago, and Jonah/Whale?
Yes. Stories in the Bible are stories without proof of being actual events etc. Call them what you wish.
Concerning a global flood, I don't know. I do know under the right conditions the earth could flood itself globally with ease. Just having the earth experience volcanic activity that would raise the oceans surface level would cause the surface water to flood the earth globally.
Nearly every culture on earth has a local or global flood story to tell. Call it coincidence? Why don't we have stories of a global fire? Why don't we have a story of a global freezing ice age? Of all the stories that cultures could have told, why a story of a flood? People on this earth for thousands of years have experienced the ravages of fires as well as floods. Yet it's flood stories they remember and which theism choose to repeat. Theism a few thousand years ago could have stated God destroyed all of life by fire except for a few in a boat on a ocean.
When I read the story of the flood I don't see fact or fiction. I'm marveled by a single sentence in the entire story.
11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
"..the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up,"
The above verse actually describes what factually takes place on the ocean floors with volcanic vents and underwater volcanoes that force water from the crust up into the ocean. But the writer couldn't have known that fact 3000 years ago. But they did a good job of describing what they shouldn't have had a single idea about right?

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#99743
Sep 17, 2013
 

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thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
The problem for you is that we know when the dry land was just one mass, and when it split and started forming the different continents and Islands.
We're talking many 10's of millions of years ago.
The writer of Genesis (supposedly Moses around 1200-1300 BC)left all these genealogies that some have interpreted to place the formation of the universe,earth, and every thing else at about 5,000 to 4,000 BC
This is simply not true....EVERY available bit of information that mankind has gathered about our past refutes this....NOTHING supports this young earth scenario.
Your cult is lying to you.
First, you have to consider things theism politely ignores about their own story timeline about their creation story.
According to a thousand years human time to a heaven's day, it took 7000 years to create everything.
Than we have an unknown timeline of how long Adam and Eve were in the garden of Eden before Eve decided it was time to split.
Even though we have genealogies in the Bible beginning with Adam, not all of these family histories are 'accurate' in their timelines. There are missing pieces here and there.
So whether the creation story is true or false, the timeline of the creation story has flaws which means the creation timeline is older than theists believe no matter if you think the story true or false. The timeline is obviously longer than it's admitted to being by theists.
The writer of Genesis alone insinuates in singular tones that the earth Adam and Eve were set upon was a single (not plural) land mass. How could that writer 2500 years ago have guessed about the single continent theory? His story in Genesis should have been filled with plural tones of land masses and islands but it wasn't.

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#99744
Sep 18, 2013
 

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thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
That old trope that we only use 10% of our brain turns out to not be true.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm...
The expression that we only use ten percent of our brain is an expression. But it's a true expression nonetheless. Only an apologist for political thinking correctness would say it's not true in an attempt to show we're all equal in the ability to think and reason and that's BS.
Studies comparisons of lower and higher learning individuals connected to brain imaging devices show higher learning person's brains light up more when problem solving then lower learning individuals.
We use all of our brain to think etc. But not all of our brain's potential is used as it could be used when thinking/problem solving.
As I stated, take a single individual that could use their brain's full potential for thought and people would think of them to be a god.
Not understanding yet? Consider all of the greatest singular thoughts by various individuals over the last two thousand years that have allowed us to become what we are and to have what we have improved upon. Now take all those singular incidences of genius and consider a single individual that could think those genius type ideas and so many more never considered or thought about all day long. That type person would be a god to many.

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#99745
Sep 18, 2013
 
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
First, you have to consider things theism politely ignores about their own story timeline about their creation story.
According to a thousand years human time to a heaven's day, it took 7000 years to create everything.
Than we have an unknown timeline of how long Adam and Eve were in the garden of Eden before Eve decided it was time to split.
Even though we have genealogies in the Bible beginning with Adam, not all of these family histories are 'accurate' in their timelines. There are missing pieces here and there.
So whether the creation story is true or false, the timeline of the creation story has flaws which means the creation timeline is older than theists believe no matter if you think the story true or false. The timeline is obviously longer than it's admitted to being by theists.
The writer of Genesis alone insinuates in singular tones that the earth Adam and Eve were set upon was a single (not plural) land mass. How could that writer 2500 years ago have guessed about the single continent theory? His story in Genesis should have been filled with plural tones of land masses and islands but it wasn't.
Hey 'No surprise' thanks for reply.

I'm on here for just a few minutes because of the lateness in my time zone.

Two things I need to reply to quickly and will do more tomorrow.

Number one, there was no Adam and Eve as written in the Bible. This is pretty much accepted by the science community (and some theists) because of bone and DNA evidence.

Number two is that Moses did not write the Pentateuch, and he may not have even existed. There was no Exodus lead by him...proven. Many scholars think the Pentateuch is a pious fraud perpetrated around the time of the Hebrew exile in Babylon 700-600+- BC. The supposed Moses was said to have lived around 1300 to 1200 BC

There's more of course

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