Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 218827 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

Level 1

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#98672 Aug 25, 2013
Igor Trip wrote:
<quoted text>It's impossible for you to know anything about your god's universe so no you can't claim he doesn't need time.

Why wouldn't time be part of God's universe as well?
God's actions still needs a start and an end which means he needs time.

The Almighty Tzar wrote, "
"creator.
If the creator doesn't need a creator then why should the universe?"
Because God always existed. The universe had a beginning 13.7 billion years ago.
"

It makes no more sense to say God always exists than to say an eternal universe outside of ours exists.
It also makes no more sense for a God/universe to have eternally existed than for one to just pop into existence.
A God just existing without explanation makes no sense.

The Almighty Tzar wrote, "
Time had a starting point.
Nothing can exist with out time
Nothing can happen with out time.
For time to pop into existence requires Time. "Paradox"
"

If nothing can happen without time then your God can't do anything without time.

How the universe began is still a mystery but invoking a preexisting God is hardly a solution as you just have another mystery and yes God does need to be explained.
"It's impossible for you to know anything about your god's universe so no you can't claim he doesn't need time."

Why? There is only one universe our God does not exists in it.
I can look around touch, smell, and hear all kinds of thing in the universe.

God works outside of time and all the law of physics that he created.

Sad that you can't figure that out.
Level 1

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#98673 Aug 25, 2013
xianity is EVIL wrote:
<quoted text>god couldnt create time,

god Definitions:
God is defined as The Conscious First Cause -
The First Cause is That which caused Time
Consciousness is that which lets one make a decision.
A Decision is the action of changing ones mind from undecided to decided.
Time is the measure of change.

Conclusions:
Time is required for Change,
A Decision is a Change.
Decisions require Time.
Consciousness can't let one make a decision without Time.
Consciousness requires Time.
God is Conscious.
God requires Time.
God can't be the cause of Time if God requires Time.
God isn't the cause of Time.
God isn't The First Cause.

you FAIL again kristain!
God is not limited by rules you think he has to follow.

Level 2

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#98674 Aug 25, 2013
replaytime wrote:
This has to be one of the dumbest things I have read! Would that be bigotry? raciest? control? trying to hold people back because of what they believe? Keeping people that believe differently down? communism? discrimination? all of them?
So basically you are saying if people agree with what they say their reward will be technology but if people don't agree with what they say then they should be denied technology.
Reminds me of a creationist saying that live by God's word and go to heaven but if you don't live by it you will go to hell.
That would be like St Mary's Hospital screening patients and saying "Oh! I see here you don't believe in God. For that we cannot treat you so you must go elsewhere and seek help.
Glad you liked my post and thank you for responding.

There are Christians who agree that they should not have technology or even modern medical care. Are they dumb? Are they held back? Well, of course they are but that is what religious freedom is all about. When evangelicals come up with new theologies, they can feel free to withhold them from me.

“Ask Randy From Ballwin”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

He Is A Sock Know It All

#98675 Aug 25, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
I am curious too. The oldest living tree I could find is 5,062 years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_t...
After doing a little more looking, I found this;

Oldest living trees;

Continuously standing trees - Methuselah (Pinus longaeva), Age; One member of this species, at 5063 years old. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinus_longaeva

Trees with cloning ability - Pando (Populus tremuloides), Age; 80,000 years or older.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populus_tremuloi...

http://www.treenames.net/types/oldest_trees.h...

Level 2

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#98676 Aug 25, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
" If you had a single daughter and a man raped her would it be okay with you if he paid you $500.00 and married your daughter?"
Different laws for a different times. What this hasn't occurred to you? Really?
Then why follow anything the Bible says if you can throw out that part? Why not throw it all out then?

“Evil Atheist :-)”

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#98677 Aug 25, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
"It's impossible for you to know anything about your god's universe so no you can't claim he doesn't need time."
Why? There is only one universe our God does not exists in it.
I can look around touch, smell, and hear all kinds of thing in the universe.
God works outside of time and all the law of physics that he created.
Sad that you can't figure that out.
You're still making unknowable claims about your god.

If he can just exist without cause then so can some quirk of physics that sets of a chain reaction that results in the Big Bang.

Invoking God solves nothing, it just results in another mystery that needs explaining.

“Ask Randy From Ballwin”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

He Is A Sock Know It All

#98678 Aug 25, 2013
Croco_Duck wrote:
<quoted text>
Glad you liked my post and thank you for responding.
There are Christians who agree that they should not have technology or even modern medical care. Are they dumb? Are they held back? Well, of course they are but that is what religious freedom is all about. When evangelicals come up with new theologies, they can feel free to withhold them from me.
It is called choice!

“e pluribus unum”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

primus inter pares

#98679 Aug 25, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
This has to be one of the dumbest things I have read! Would that be bigotry? raciest? control? trying to hold people back because of what they believe? Keeping people that believe differently down? communism? discrimination? all of them?
So basically you are saying if people agree with what they say their reward will be technology but if people don't agree with what they say then they should be denied technology.
Reminds me of a creationist saying that live by God's word and go to heaven but if you don't live by it you will go to hell.
That would be like St Mary's Hospital screening patients and saying "Oh! I see here you don't believe in God. For that we cannot treat you so you must go elsewhere and seek help.
He is saying most of you are hypocrites, rejecting the science you don't like ..but sucking up to the stuff you do like.
You say science is wrong..sitting at a computer science brought into being. You theists should quit being hypocrites and throw down all tec and ride your horse to church everyday.

Level 1

Since: Aug 13

La Mesa, CA

#98680 Aug 25, 2013
What if both Creationist and Evolutionist are dead wrong? New species are still continuing to appear out of nowhere, as they are doing even in the present, with no evidence that they were created by God or that they evolved over time. Maybe some folks need to start considering other possible explanations. How about my own theory, which I'll call the 'Spontaneous Appearance Theory'? Proponents of this theory would argue that we may not know how the process of spontaneous appearance happens, but that it does seem to be occurring nonetheless. Or how about a 'Rapid Evolution Theory' in which species still appear very quickly, yet seem to have likely evolved from other species, in a very short time span rather than over many, many years? Let's think outside the box - and whether you believe boxes were created or evolved doesn't matter - let's not argue about 'The Theory Of Boxes'- unless you really, really think it might get us somewhere! My own theory about boxes is that they ...

Level 2

Since: Nov 12

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#98681 Aug 25, 2013
replaytime wrote:
It is called choice!
Do the children of so-called Christian Scientists have a choice?

An old article, but still the deaths go on... http://www.nytimes.com/1990/08/06/us/in-child...

"David and Ginger Twitchell, a Christian Science couple from Massachusetts who relied on prayer rather than on doctors as their young son lay dying from an obstructed bowel, were convicted of involuntary manslaughter last month. It was a stunning verdict, coming as it did in the very shadow of the Mother Church in Boston.

But the death of 2-year-old Robyn Twitchell and the conviction that followed was only the latest of a number of successful prosecutions of Christian Scientists whose children died agonizing deaths after spiritual healing failed.

The prosecutions, like many historic constitutional cases, represent a clash of apparent absolutes: of religious liberty and parental autonomy on the one hand and the right of the states to protect children - and the rights of the children themselves - on the other.

While the tenets of the church, particularly its reliance on prayer in lieu of standard medical treatment, remain fundamentally unchanged since Mary Baker Eddy founded it in Boston in 1879, they have come under intense attack in courtrooms and state legislatures."

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#98682 Aug 25, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
You then must believe that the bible list every kind of life?
It doesn't.
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Since: Jun 13

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#98683 Aug 25, 2013
Croco_Duck wrote:
<quoted text>Then why follow anything the Bible says if you can throw out that part? Why not throw it all out then?
I'm not throwing anything out. The bible says to follow the law of the land unless its against God.

“e pluribus unum”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

primus inter pares

#98684 Aug 25, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
"It's impossible for you to know anything about your god's universe so no you can't claim he doesn't need time."
Why? There is only one universe our God does not exists in it.
I can look around touch, smell, and hear all kinds of thing in the universe.
God works outside of time and all the law of physics that he created.
Sad that you can't figure that out.

Fairy tales don't convince anyone of your imaginary friends.
Level 1

Since: Jun 13

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#98685 Aug 25, 2013
Igor Trip wrote:
<quoted text>You're still making unknowable claims about your god.

If he can just exist without cause then so can some quirk of physics that sets of a chain reaction that results in the Big Bang.

Invoking God solves nothing, it just results in another mystery that needs explaining.
Not at all. God gave us the Bible thus it's knowable. Just read.

" if he can just exist without cause then so can some quirk of physics that sets of a chain reaction that results in the Big Bang."

Nope not at all. You seem to have an issues understanding the difference between God who created the universe and items he created in the universe.
Level 1

Since: Jun 13

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#98686 Aug 25, 2013
ALaughterClub wrote:
What if both Creationist and Evolutionist are dead wrong? New species are still continuing to appear out of nowhere, as they are doing even in the present, with no evidence that they were created by God or that they evolved over time. Maybe some folks need to start considering other possible explanations. How about my own theory, which I'll call the 'Spontaneous Appearance Theory'? Proponents of this theory would argue that we may not know how the process of spontaneous appearance happens, but that it does seem to be occurring nonetheless. Or how about a 'Rapid Evolution Theory' in which species still appear very quickly, yet seem to have likely evolved from other species, in a very short time span rather than over many, many years? Let's think outside the box - and whether you believe boxes were created or evolved doesn't matter - let's not argue about 'The Theory Of Boxes'- unless you really, really think it might get us somewhere! My own theory about boxes is that they ...
"New species are still continuing to appear out of nowhere"

But there are no new kinds.

Level 2

Since: Nov 12

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#98687 Aug 25, 2013
ALaughterClub wrote:
What if both Creationist and Evolutionist are dead wrong? New species are still continuing to appear out of nowhere, as they are doing even in the present, with no evidence that they were created by God or that they evolved over time. Maybe some folks need to start considering other possible explanations. How about my own theory, which I'll call the 'Spontaneous Appearance Theory'? Proponents of this theory would argue that we may not know how the process of spontaneous appearance happens, but that it does seem to be occurring nonetheless. Or how about a 'Rapid Evolution Theory' in which species still appear very quickly, yet seem to have likely evolved from other species, in a very short time span rather than over many, many years? Let's think outside the box - and whether you believe boxes were created or evolved doesn't matter - let's not argue about 'The Theory Of Boxes'- unless you really, really think it might get us somewhere! My own theory about boxes is that they ...
You forgot the theory that Barbara Eden is "blinking" them into existence.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#98688 Aug 25, 2013
ALaughterClub wrote:
What if both Creationist and Evolutionist are dead wrong? New species are still continuing to appear out of nowhere, as they are doing even in the present, with no evidence that they were created by God or that they evolved over time. Maybe some folks need to start considering other possible explanations. How about my own theory, which I'll call the 'Spontaneous Appearance Theory'? Proponents of this theory would argue that we may not know how the process of spontaneous appearance happens, but that it does seem to be occurring nonetheless. Or how about a 'Rapid Evolution Theory' in which species still appear very quickly, yet seem to have likely evolved from other species, in a very short time span rather than over many, many years? Let's think outside the box - and whether you believe boxes were created or evolved doesn't matter - let's not argue about 'The Theory Of Boxes'- unless you really, really think it might get us somewhere! My own theory about boxes is that they ...
How about we never looked there and when we did we found some new species there. Or we figured out how to tell that a known species is really two or more different species. Or we developed a new technique that allows science to find new but existing species we didn't know before.

Why must we speculate on new, untested and radical explanations when the existing explanations offered by evolution already explain the finding of new species and is supported by a very substantial and robust body of evidence?

When North and South America were explored by Europeans for the first time, they found a vast number of new species that were completely unknown at each moment of discovery. Since these are all tied into ecological webs and some are keystone species, it doesn't make sense to just assume they "poofed" into existence upon discovery. We are still discovering new species. That doesn't mean they were newly existent.

I think you better check out the theory of evolution a little more completely before you start trying to posit new explanations.

“Ask Randy From Ballwin”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

He Is A Sock Know It All

#98689 Aug 25, 2013
Croco_Duck wrote:
<quoted text>
Do the children of so-called Christian Scientists have a choice?
An old article, but still the deaths go on... http://www.nytimes.com/1990/08/06/us/in-child...
"David and Ginger Twitchell, a Christian Science couple from Massachusetts who relied on prayer rather than on doctors as their young son lay dying from an obstructed bowel, were convicted of involuntary manslaughter last month. It was a stunning verdict, coming as it did in the very shadow of the Mother Church in Boston.
But the death of 2-year-old Robyn Twitchell and the conviction that followed was only the latest of a number of successful prosecutions of Christian Scientists whose children died agonizing deaths after spiritual healing failed.
The prosecutions, like many historic constitutional cases, represent a clash of apparent absolutes: of religious liberty and parental autonomy on the one hand and the right of the states to protect children - and the rights of the children themselves - on the other.
While the tenets of the church, particularly its reliance on prayer in lieu of standard medical treatment, remain fundamentally unchanged since Mary Baker Eddy founded it in Boston in 1879, they have come under intense attack in courtrooms and state legislatures."
Now you are comparing the death of a child to your first statement of denying Evangelicals technology. In both cases a person or people would be denied based upon the beliefs of others and both would be wrong. It would be just as wrong to deny Evangelicals technology as it was for the parents to deny that child medical treatment. I agree they should have been tried and convicted. Same as if you deny someone technology because their belief differs from yours you would be tried and convicted of one or more(bigotry, raciest or discrimination).

There are crazies on both sides of the fence but that doesn't make all on either side crazy.

Level 2

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#98690 Aug 25, 2013
ALaughterClub wrote:
What if both Creationist and Evolutionist are dead wrong? New species are still continuing to appear out of nowhere, as they are doing even in the present, with no evidence that they were created by God or that they evolved over time. Maybe some folks need to start considering other possible explanations. How about my own theory, which I'll call the 'Spontaneous Appearance Theory'? Proponents of this theory would argue that we may not know how the process of spontaneous appearance happens, but that it does seem to be occurring nonetheless. Or how about a 'Rapid Evolution Theory' in which species still appear very quickly, yet seem to have likely evolved from other species, in a very short time span rather than over many, many years? Let's think outside the box - and whether you believe boxes were created or evolved doesn't matter - let's not argue about 'The Theory Of Boxes'- unless you really, really think it might get us somewhere! My own theory about boxes is that they ...
You know I don't think I've seen you around here before. So, you must have just poofed into existence. How does it feel to be newly created?

Level 2

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#98691 Aug 25, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
"New species are still continuing to appear out of nowhere"
But there are no new kinds.
Well I was just reading my Bible and is says that a bat is a bird. So are bats part of the bird "kind"?

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