Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 216687 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#98608 Aug 24, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Uhm,,, your post of "No problem. It started with this study that showed a prison population of 0.2% atheists when the claimed percentage was 2%".
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/T9Q...
That was a prison population of 0.2% atheists while the population as a whole was 2% atheists.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#98609 Aug 24, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
You are right. It said 1.4 million and I misread it as 14 million.
And now I am getting too tired to do all the math again lol.
But I made the mistake and I will admit it.
Yes it is very late.

See you tomorrow.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#98610 Aug 24, 2013
"There are over 7 billion humans on earth....I would guess that they don't believe in your God any more then you believe in theirs."

Meant to say 4 billion out of 7 billion are not followers of Christianity.

To many mistakes today....I'm going to bed.:-)

“Ask Randy From Ballwin”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

He Is A Sock Know It All

#98611 Aug 24, 2013
One thing we all should be able to agree on is this:

Much can be seen but we can't see everything. Much can be explained but we can’t explain everything. As much as we understand there is more we don’t understand. That is life for we will never see, be able to explain or understand everything. At least not in our lifetime!

“Jon Snow”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

The King in the Nor±h

#98612 Aug 24, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
Is fire alive?
Is stupidity a virtue?

“Jon Snow”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

The King in the Nor±h

#98613 Aug 24, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
If God is supernatural and science examines the natural, then science (as it currently stands) cannot be used to prove or disprove God.
How can you measure a miracle? How can doctors or science explain healing that should not have been? How can science disprove the presence of God that so many say they have felt? What scientific tools do we have to prove or disprove any of these events?
If we think God can be proven by a man made system, then we clearly have a warped (and very human) sense of who God is (or would be) and the God we are looking for is not one who made man, but one that man made.
Additionally, how can you prove God doesn't exist when you don't know what His properties are to test? What kind of test can you run against an element that you think doesn't exist?
Even a supposed "supernatural" has an effect that is measurable, just not understood. You don't even have an "effect" to claim is supernatural, just a belief. Beliefs are not supernatural, they are superstitious.

“Jon Snow”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

The King in the Nor±h

#98614 Aug 24, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
But science is pretty clear that the universe started 13.7 billion years ago.
I know you feel now that you must retreat to an always existing universe because of the time paradox.
But science isn't following your lead.
The figure is as it stands, the universe appears to have been born 13.7 bya, but this is not written in stone like a prophesy.
That figure can change, and figures do change in science as new information and knowledge becomes available.
Just like the word multiverse that you struggle with.
Please grace us with some more of your pig headed stupidity now.

“Ask Randy From Ballwin”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

He Is A Sock Know It All

#98615 Aug 24, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> Even a supposed "supernatural" has an effect that is measurable, just not understood. You don't even have an "effect" to claim is supernatural, just a belief. Beliefs are not supernatural, they are superstitious.
Supernatural definition -
1: of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe; especially : of or relating to God or a god, demigod, spirit, or devil
2a: departing from what is usual or normal especially so as to appear to transcend the laws of nature
b: attributed to an invisible agent (as a ghost or spirit)
What tools do they have that can measure God, a God, Devil, Sprits or invisible things?

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#98616 Aug 24, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
So if a fossil over laps another fossil there are no missing transitionals?
Not just A fossil. A contiuum of fossils and the relationship between one and the next. If you lined up the progression on a table you might argue that each could be the same species as the one to the left and the one to the right in every case. But jump 2 to the left or right and that is not likely and jump 3 and the differences are large.

Furthermore this gradation of differences starts with specimens measurably more similar to typical ape morphlogy and gradually moves to measurably more human morphology.

And of course, dating of this row of specimens will also show the most apelike to be the oldest and the least to be the youngest.

This is all as evolution predicted before the first was found, a perfect case of a theory making valid observable predictions. A creationism neither predicted nor can explain it.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#98617 Aug 24, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Why is proof for math and not for science when science uses math in all it does but requires no proof.
In math the rubber never hits the road. It is a self contained abstraction whose only requirement is internal logical consistency.

In science we have to deal with empirical reality. Our observstions are never perfect, and nor is our knowledge base. Science depends on induction, generalising from these imperfect observations. Math relies only on deduction.

Thus we look at incomplete observations- facts provable to a margin of error- and develop theories to expalin those facts. If the theories are good they should predict other facts. But that success does not prove the theorry, it can only validate it. Why?

Because one day another theory (explanation) might just come along and explain the same body of facts better. There is no way of knowing in principle.

But we regard a theory as extremely strong when it has succeeded at explaining and predicting facts for a long time against a lot of challenges. Nobody who understands the science of evolution today expects a serious challenge to it for that reason. Perhaps some small modifications. Evolution has been corrobrated by multiple independent lines of evidence and falsified by none despite concerted attack for 150 years. Few other theories have been so thoroughly tested.

“Jon Snow”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

The King in the Nor±h

#98618 Aug 25, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Supernatural definition -
1: of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe; especially : of or relating to God or a god, demigod, spirit, or devil
2a: departing from what is usual or normal especially so as to appear to transcend the laws of nature
b: attributed to an invisible agent (as a ghost or spirit)
What tools do they have that can measure God, a God, Devil, Sprits or invisible things?
Websters is worst

of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.

pertaining to, or being above or beyond what is natural; unexplainable by natural law or phenomena; abnormal.

You have to have something besides a claim of something.
AS IN, lightening was once thought to be supernatural.
It's a fallacy to say god is supernatural, Russell's tea pot is supernatural, when you cannot show anything, there is nothing to show.

“Ask Randy From Ballwin”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

He Is A Sock Know It All

#98619 Aug 25, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> Websters is worst
of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.
pertaining to, or being above or beyond what is natural; unexplainable by natural law or phenomena; abnormal.
You have to have something besides a claim of something.
AS IN, lightening was once thought to be supernatural.
It's a fallacy to say god is supernatural, Russell's tea pot is supernatural, when you cannot show anything, there is nothing to show.
My sources were;

bing
http://www.bing.com/search...

The free dictionary
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/supernatural

your dictionary
http://www.yourdictionary.com/supernatural

wordiQ.com
http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Supernatural

real dictionary
http://www.realdictionary.com/...

and yes Webster was in there too
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sup...

I look at many before Ipost a link. That is one thing I learned here, have a back-up. lol

“Jon Snow”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

The King in the Nor±h

#98620 Aug 25, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Supernatural definition -
1: of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe; especially : of or relating to God or a god, demigod, spirit, or devil
2a: departing from what is usual or normal especially so as to appear to transcend the laws of nature
b: attributed to an invisible agent (as a ghost or spirit)
What tools do they have that can measure God, a God, Devil, Sprits or invisible things?
Ghosts or spirits are manifestations that are thought to be seen from time to time, this is observable "if true" unfortunately they are more misinterpretations than genuine, the same can be said of deities. But in a more fallacious way. For instance an example here...

"So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs[g] and then closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib[h] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man."

In this story god has a physical existence, that can touch reality, and even speaks to Adam & Eve. But in reality this is a fictitious story , and there is no physical aspect to god who does not touch reality and does not speak to humans.
The story is a fallacy and is built on superstitious nonsense.
There is nothing supernatural about it. and this statement is fallacious in reality.

"of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe"

Under that guise any claim can be made, and called supernatural.

Such as ..

"mind bending shape-shifting time warping invisible aliens inhabit planet Zirconia in an alternate universe.

It's true because you can't see them.

It carries no scientific validity and is of zero rational or truthful value. In fact it is as meaningful a statement as..
God is supernatural. Unless the claim can be tested is is no value
what so ever, and is fallacious or superstitious nonsense.

Now this statement has some validity.

"Then the Lord God said to the woman,“What is this you have done?” "

But unless you can demonstrate it , it too is worthless and meaningless superstitious nonsense. It's not supernatural
It is a claim of supernatural.. Denoted by the prefix...
"of or relating to God or a god, demigod, spirit, or devil"
It is not actually a supernatural event, it is a claim of supernatural. But in reality is meaningless superstitious nonsense.

“Evil Atheist :-)”

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#98621 Aug 25, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
Because God is outside of the universe and created Time it may be hard for you to grasp that he always existed and will always exist.
Wouldn't it take God time to think about creating time? So where did God's time come from?

Theists have this weird idea that God can just exist without explanation but the universe can't. That's a fallacy called special pleading.

Put simply, if the universe needs a creator then the creator needs a creator.
If the creator doesn't need a creator then why should the universe?

God isn't nothing. He's a something and yes he does need explaining.

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#98622 Aug 25, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
None of the Bible has been proven wrong!
Lets see your proof.
The Bible makes the assertions you claim as "Truth", the burden to substantiate them is on you. Where to start? Plants created before the sun? A day is a light and dark or a thousand years? Adam and Eve? City of Enoch? Global flood? Tower of Babel? Talking reptiles, donkeys, etc.? Parting the Red Sea? 3 days living in a fish? The walls of Jericho and the actual existence of Nazareth? Walking on water? How about >any< evidence that the scriptures are inspired by >any deity< at all?

“That's just MY opinion...”

Since: Jan 07

Location hidden

#98623 Aug 25, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
Because God is outside of the universe and created Time it may be hard for you to grasp that he always existed and will always exist.
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
...Only a fool would make such unsubstantiated claim.
Hard to argue with that...
grax

Chicago, IL

#98626 Aug 25, 2013
replaytime wrote:
One thing we all should be able to agree on is this:
Much can be seen but we can't see everything. Much can be explained but we can’t explain everything. As much as we understand there is more we don’t understand. That is life for we will never see, be able to explain or understand everything. At least not in our lifetime!
Sounds like the Jim Jones Jesus Juice hasnt kicked in yet. Besides, with pill popping at epidemic levels its hard to tell who or whats real....a total disconnect from reality started 2000 years ago......nothing will change!
Level 1

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#98628 Aug 25, 2013
xianity is EVIL wrote:
<quoted text>argument from popularity proves that majority of the world is Deluded and stupid,

atheists are more Rational then religious folk,thats why small rich minority rules the world,while religious get exploited and used like pawns..
I see, first it was 70% of the world is atheist so we must be right

Then when the real number are shown
You say "argument from popularity proves that majority of the world is Deluded and stupid,"

Go Figure
Level 1

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#98629 Aug 25, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>That is because you do not understand biology. Your idiocy is not my problem.
Your right you should with your own idiocy first.
Level 1

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#98630 Aug 25, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>No, it isn't.

You have no idea what is believe by scientists.

Here is about a 5 minute long video that simplifies the Big Bang enough so that even a tard can understand what is believed right now:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =q3MWRvLndzsXX&feature=c4- overview&list=UUUHW94eEFW7 hkUMVaZz4eDg
Ok so you have the time in the universe that you don't have a clue and you don't know how time started. I like the part were he claims the expansion of the universe slowed down and cooled. We know that the expansion of the universe is speeding up. Because time starting is impossible in the Big Bang theory they are now working in the eternal universe theory. A theory that time always existed.

So basically science now realize the paradox of time in the BB so they now believe the universe had no beginning.
That it always existed. Kind of like God.
You know the God you all keep saying must have been created because nothing could have always existed.

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