Evolution vs. Creation

Full story: Best of New Orleans

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

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The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#98223
Aug 20, 2013
 
Croco_Duck wrote:
Hey I have a question for everyone to ponder. I know the answer and it is not a supernatural one.
How did all the fish get into the lakes?
They swam.

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#98224
Aug 20, 2013
 
The Dude wrote:
They swam.
Nope. I'm sure you have lakes in the UK. Don't you wonder how the fish got there?

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

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#98225
Aug 20, 2013
 
Croco_Duck wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope. I'm sure you have lakes in the UK. Don't you wonder how the fish got there?
Depends if they are indigenous, introduced or invasive and some are stocked from elsewhere. Some are hybrids engineered at hatchery's.
They say the snakehead was brought by Chinese to here to wreak havoc
it can devastate the fish population here.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/08/0...

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#98226
Aug 20, 2013
 
Aura Mytha wrote:
Depends if they are indigenous, introduced or invasive and some are stocked from elsewhere. Some are hybrids engineered at hatchery's.
They say the snakehead was brought by Chinese to here to wreak havoc
it can devastate the fish population here.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/08/0...
It has nothing to do with humans.

“I'm Your Huckleberry ”

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That's Just My Game

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#98227
Aug 20, 2013
 
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Spacetime refers to our entire current universal expansion, which includes planet Earth. It's been known since at least Einstein that there is no one objective single reference to "time".
<quoted text>
Jupiter or a Jupiter, right...
<quoted text>
Actually most of us consider to be a gas giant.
A gas giant which is NOT currently occupying our present position in the spacetime continuum.
<quoted text>
It is.
<quoted text>
Hence habitability is irrelevant.
<quoted text>
It's not considered outer space to anyone sane.
<quoted text>
Non-sequitor, does not follow. But then you are claiming that time is not actually physical at all, but rather an abstract concept completely separate from our spacetime continuum which we exist in. This is a common mistake amongst those who didn't quite grasp what Einstein was saying (bear in mind that he's since been superceded by quantum physics which only adds more technicality while little altering the original point).
<quoted text>
Wrong. This is why you're quite confused. Math in itself IS a purely abstract thing. It is a tool, which can be applied to reality. And when applied correctly it measures reality. And when we measure that space and time are one and the same it's because they ARE. Just as some people can't quite grasp the concept of "nothing" when referring to "beyond" the boundaries of our universe, you appear to not be able to grasp the concept of no time beyond the boundaries of our universe.
In physics, spacetime (also spacetime, space time or spacetime continuum) is any mathematical model that combines space and time into a single continuum.Spacetime is usually interpreted with space as existing in three dimensions and time playing the role of a fourth dimension that is of a different sort from the spatial dimensions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacetime

You think Jupiter is habitable? A gas planet with a toxic atmosphere. What do you think does or could inhabit it?

You don't think Jupiter is in outer space? Well then you must not be sane,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_space

“Darwin was right..of course.”

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Seattle

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#98228
Aug 20, 2013
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Ah! There's your problem.
You are assuming that bohart is a sentient being.
Boy O' boy is that a very wrong assumption. He can't seem to understand the basics.

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#98229
Aug 20, 2013
 
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Boolocks. It's been happening since life began, and is still happening.

All species are transitional, and that's demonstrable.
Nope

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#98230
Aug 20, 2013
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>No, so called "polystrate" fossils have been explained hundreds of times.

There is no whale "polystrate" fossil. That is a cretard lie.

Please. Show evidence for this. If you want to make me laugh link some creatard source. I know you cannot find a source that uses science to support this latest idiocy.
"There is no whale "polystrate" fossil. That is a cretard lie."

"A remarkable fossil find has been found in Peru: 346 whales buried in diatomaceous earth. The preservation of the whales is so pristine and complete, the authors of the paper in the Feb. 2004 issue of Geology1 conclude that the whales had to be buried rapidly, in days or weeks. If so, it represents a rate of accumulation of diatoms many times higher than what occurs in modern oceans.
The authors point out some amazing things about this fossil deposit:
Condition: The whale skeletons are “preserved in pristine condition (bones articulated [i.e., still assembled] or at least closely associated), in some cases including preserved baleen.”
Fine details:“The most complete whale (WCBa 20) was fully articulated; the microscopic detail of its baleen was preserved … and there is black, heavy-mineral replacement of the spinal cord and some intervertebral disks. There were no similar minerals in the surrounding sediment. These nonbony tissues were still present when the whale was completely buried.” Other instances of baleen, the delicate straining structure of the whale’s mouth, were also found.
Vertical extent:“The 346 whales within ~1.5 km2 of surveyed surface were not buried as an event, but were distributed uninterrupted through an 80-m-thick sedimentary section.” Since they were found uniformly distributed from bottom to top of the formation, the conditions in which they were buried must have also been uniform.
Unlaminated strata:“The diatomaceous sediment lacks repeating primary laminations, but instead is mostly massive, with irregular laminations and speckles.” In other words, it was not due to a cyclic process, like the annual climate change that produces tree rings.
Lack of bioturbation: Small organisms have not altered the deposit.“There is no evidence for bioturbation by invertebrates in the whale-bearing sediment.” Apparently they didn’t have the chance, it happened so fast.
Intact diatoms:“If most diatoms dissolve before preservation in the sediment, one would find frustules in all stages of dissolution. Diatoms in the Pisco diatomaceous sediment are often broken, but SEMstudy indicated fine preservation, with no significant evidence of dissolution.… In the shallow-water Pisco Formation, the diatoms were probably buried too quickly for much dissolution to occur.” The authors point out that in contemporary diatom deposits, only 2–3% of the frustules (glass shells) usually remain undissolved, up to 24% in special cases in Antarctica."

http://crev.info/2004/02/hundreds_of_whales_b...

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#98231
Aug 20, 2013
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>No, so called "polystrate" fossils have been explained hundreds of times.

There is no whale "polystrate" fossil. That is a cretard lie.

Please. Show evidence for this. If you want to make me laugh link some creatard source. I know you cannot find a source that uses science to support this latest idiocy.
"There is no whale "polystrate" fossil. That is a cretard lie."

"‘We knew it was a great find,’ said paleontologist Leonard Brand about the fossil whales he saw in Peru in 1999, 350 km (200 miles) south of Lima, the capital. Eagerly he organized a team of creationist research scientists. They recently published their findings in the secular journal Geology.1,2,3
Overall, they found 346 whales within a 1.5-km2 (370-acre) area, buried in an 80-m (260-ft) thick layer of sedimentary rock called diatomite. This layer is part of the Pisco Formation, which varies in thickness from 200–1,000 m (650–3,300 ft).

Diatomite is sedimentary rock containing a high percentage of fossil diatoms—small single-celled algae, which commonly live near the ocean surface. The layer of diatomite in Peru has 5 to 10% clay and abundant volcanic ash.

Today, when diatoms die, their silica skeletons accumulate on the ocean floor. One gram (0.035 oz.) of diatomite may contain up to 400 million skeletons.4 Diatomite sediment normally accumulates slowly—only a few centimetres per thousand years.1Even where the rate is higher, such as in some shallow-water areas, accumulation is still slow. For example, in the fjords of British Columbia, diatoms and clay accumulate at 2.5–5.0 mm (0.1–0.2 inches) per year.2

Also today, when a whale carcass sinks to the bottom of the ocean, many kinds of scavengers quickly attack and colonize it. And in their quest for food, some scavengers churn up the adjacent sediments.5

However, in Peru, the fossilized whales and diatoms were well preserved and the whale skeletons were mostly intact. There was no evidence of normal decay, such as wormholes, barnacle encrustations or general degradation. Neither was there any sign that organisms had churned up the adjacent sediment."

http://creation.mo bi/dead-whales-telling-tales

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#98232
Aug 20, 2013
 

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Subduction Zone wrote:
That's Tater Salad to you bub.

"The evidence of marine animals that has been found could only be created by immense, recent, oceanic tidal waves. If the floods across North America were caused by ice-domed lakes, they would have washed away all evidence of these whale bones and other marine materials; none of the floods would reach Mexico or the Bahamas."

This is bad, it takes none of the actual flood events into account.
The fountains of the deep erupting.
The raising up the land and lowering the ocean floors.

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#98233
Aug 20, 2013
 
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>Martin Luther,

On the Jews and Their Lies (German: Von den Jüden und iren Lügen; in modern spelling Von den Juden und ihren Lügen) is a 65,000-word antisemitic treatise written in 1543 by the German Reformation leader Martin Luther.

In the treatise, Luther describes Jews as a "base, whoring people, that is, no people of God, and their boast of lineage, circumcision, and law must be accounted as filth."[1] Luther wrote that they are "full of the devil's feces ... which they wallow in like swine,"[2] and the synagogue is an "incorrigible whore and an evil slut".[3]

In the first ten sections of the treatise, Luther expounds, at considerable length, upon his views concerning Jews and Judaism and how these compare against Christians and Christianity. Following this exposition, Section XI of the treatise advises Christians to carry out seven remedial actions. These are

1.for Jewish synagogues and schools to be burned to the ground, and the remnants buried out of sight;
2.for houses owned by Jews to be likewise razed, and the owners made to live in agricultural outbuildings;
3.for their religious writings to be taken away;
4.for rabbis to be forbidden to preach, and to be executed if they do;
5.for safe conduct on the roads to be abolished for Jews;
6.for usury to be prohibited, and for all silver and gold to be removed and "put aside for safekeeping"; and
7.for the Jewish population to be put to work as agricultural slave laborers.[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jews_and_...

Note that this was about 300 years before Darwin.

I'm simply trying to bring to light the racist views of the father of the Protestant Church(s).

If you want to remain eyes wide shut go ahead.
"I'm simply trying to bring to light the racist views of the father of the Protestant Church(s)."

Thanks for that. I did not know that.

Again I was scolded for posting an article that called evolution racist.
There is racism running all through it.
But as you pointed out racism is every where including religious houses.

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#98234
Aug 20, 2013
 
Jay-Gee1992 wrote:
what do young Creationists have to say about Carbon dating?
I only date within my age group. Cabon dating does nothing for me but to each there own. So if carbon is ok with it and that's what you want to do I say go for it.

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#98235
Aug 20, 2013
 
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>The act of creation would need time also under your rules, but you'll let that slide because your god is always allowed special exemptions from any rules you make.

Time is not required to exist before time starts as that would be a paradox - your claim.

Also science is fine with the existence of time before our universe, in which case time did not start with our universe. All depends on what occurred at the point of singularity. You say invisible wizard. Maybe.

It used evolution though.
"The act of creation would need time also under your rules"

Incorrect. Time was created by God outside (because it didn't exist yet) our universe. God is not held to the law of Physics that he creates for the universe.

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#98236
Aug 20, 2013
 
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Much more. It is backed by evidence. It's astonishing that a sentient being is incapable of understanding this simple concept.
What evidence? you and the other idiots pool your intelligence and come up with evidence of the life giving sludge.

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#98237
Aug 20, 2013
 

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The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Reality isn't real therefore Goddidit with magic.
or your goo didit with magic

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#98238
Aug 20, 2013
 
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>Don't worry, I addressed them on page 1:

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/T9Q...

Of course you can pretend to ignore the HIGHLY racist position of Genesis though, where it started with one pair of "perfect" humans (mostly depicted as white, what, with being made in GODS IMAGE and all) and then it allegedly went all downhill from there.
Sorry Genesis never talks about skin color

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#98241
Aug 20, 2013
 
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Much more. It is backed by evidence. It's astonishing that a sentient being is incapable of understanding this simple concept.
Please , tell me about this life giving slime, and how it came to life, and how you are a descendant of a rat!

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

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#98242
Aug 20, 2013
 
Croco_Duck wrote:
<quoted text>
It has nothing to do with humans.
Certainly it does, most assuredly , but not entirely under our control.
The catch phrase is that we have the ability to change things.
Sometimes it even works out, as planned.

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#98243
Aug 20, 2013
 
thewordofme wrote:
"We've done the paternity tests, we've traced back the genealogy, and were doing all kinds of in-depth testing of the human species. People are apes and the descendants of apes, who were the descendants of rat-like primates, who were the children of reptiles, who were the spawn of amphibians, who were the terrestrial progeny of fish, who came from worms, who were assembled from single-celled microorganisms, who were the products of chemistry. Your daddy was a film of chemical slime on a Hadean rock, and he didn't care about youhe was only obeying the laws of thermodynamics.
You are you not because of some grand design but because of chance, contingency, and selection.--P.Z. Myers
http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/So-Alone.aspx
9. man
8.apes
7.rat like creatures!
6.reptiles
5. amphibians
4. fish
3. worms
2.micro organisms
1. slime that became alive

Who believes this?

how did the worms evolve into worm eating fish?

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#98244
Aug 20, 2013
 
Aura Mytha wrote:
Certainly it does, most assuredly , but not entirely under our control.
The catch phrase is that we have the ability to change things.
Sometimes it even works out, as planned.
Just imagine when humans first entered North America from Asia. Paleo-Indians settle in America over 10,000 years ago. They find lakes, many of them teeming with fish.

Where did the fish come from?

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