Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 168919 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#98092 Aug 19, 2013
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you question other dating methods as well, or just this one?
Other dating methods have been tested thousands of times.

Once again, this is a one time test. Is that such a hard concept to understand?
EXPERT

Redding, CA

#98093 Aug 19, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Other dating methods have been tested thousands of times.
Once again, this is a one time test. Is that such a hard concept to understand?
So unless a method has been tested/verified at a minimum of 1,000 times you will not accept it?

What is the standard minimum for you?

“I be me, and you are...”

Level 6

Since: Dec 06

in a city...

#98094 Aug 19, 2013
Dating with absolute knowledge to get a special someone, created just for self... that be the way to go.

I think I signed up for that a while back...

1,000 years wait... What kind of love would that be? 1,013 maybe...

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#98095 Aug 19, 2013
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>
So unless a method has been tested/verified at a minimum of 1,000 times you will not accept it?
What is the standard minimum for you?
Did I say that?

I don't know what the minimum is. If you get three consistent results you should start to pay serious attention. If you get ten it is pretty much confirmed.

But remember, this is not a nuclear half life that is very hard to change. This is a chemical half life that can be affected by quite a few different factors. I am very sure that you would not get the same results with 3 tests much less ten. Not only that, but as the DNA deteriorates it may do so at different rates.

Have some patience. When crazies jump on the first report of something different they are almost always wrong. Don't you remember the "faster than light neutrinos" from CERN? It turned out not to be the case. Even though they did the experiment a second time and got similar results.

As I said before there are very good reasons that experiments are repeated and repeated.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#98096 Aug 19, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
Life does not support creationism?
Wow. Talk about a moronic attempt at word twisting, or blank incomprehension. Take your pick. But thanks. Such evasions merely demonstrate that you could not answer the actual content of my post.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#98097 Aug 19, 2013
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you question other dating methods as well, or just this one?
The half life of the DNA in question was not used for dating the sample! And half life in this context has nothing to do with nuclear half lives or with dating methods.

They imply found that in a sample of moa DNA found, about half had disintegrated and the sample was 500 years old. Unlike nuclear decay which is constant, chemical decay depends on a whole host of factors. Cooking can reduce the half life of DNA to an hour!

Temperature, humidity, oxygen, pressure, bacteria, acidity/alkalinity, will all directly affect the preservation of DNA.

Of course, when the biologists loosely employed the half life terminology to discuss the deterioration of their sample, they did not stop to think how gleefully creationists would leap upon it and misinterpret it wildly to suit their ends. Because of course, real scientists hardly think of creationists at all, any more than they think about astrologers or african shamans; they are too busy learning about how the world works.

“Rising”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Milky Way

#98098 Aug 19, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
The half life of the DNA in question was not used for dating the sample! And half life in this context has nothing to do with nuclear half lives or with dating methods.
They imply found that in a sample of moa DNA found, about half had disintegrated and the sample was 500 years old. Unlike nuclear decay which is constant, chemical decay depends on a whole host of factors. Cooking can reduce the half life of DNA to an hour!
Temperature, humidity, oxygen, pressure, bacteria, acidity/alkalinity, will all directly affect the preservation of DNA.
Of course, when the biologists loosely employed the half life terminology to discuss the deterioration of their sample, they did not stop to think how gleefully creationists would leap upon it and misinterpret it wildly to suit their ends. Because of course, real scientists hardly think of creationists at all, any more than they think about astrologers or african shamans; they are too busy learning about how the world works.
Isn't that the truth, I've seen story's and alot of them lately , where people have been forced to reiterate what they
actually DID SAY. Because creationists twisted their words into meaning what they wanted. Just as Mary Schweitzer said she was embarrassed to be a christian because of how silly they acted and that they gave Christianity a bad name.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#98099 Aug 19, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
The half life of the DNA in question was not used for dating the sample! And half life in this context has nothing to do with nuclear half lives or with dating methods.
They imply found that in a sample of moa DNA found, about half had disintegrated and the sample was 500 years old. Unlike nuclear decay which is constant, chemical decay depends on a whole host of factors. Cooking can reduce the half life of DNA to an hour!
Temperature, humidity, oxygen, pressure, bacteria, acidity/alkalinity, will all directly affect the preservation of DNA.
Of course, when the biologists loosely employed the half life terminology to discuss the deterioration of their sample, they did not stop to think how gleefully creationists would leap upon it and misinterpret it wildly to suit their ends. Because of course, real scientists hardly think of creationists at all, any more than they think about astrologers or african shamans; they are too busy learning about how the world works.
Actually I do have to modify this a little because what I said is inaccurate. They did tests on a number of moa samples of varying ages (determined by other methods of course)to determine the rate of breakdown of the DNA present, and came up with an average "half life" of 521 years.

However this refers to the number of intact bonds and even when these have broken, its still DNA fragments (nucleotides). That is the first point. The second is that they agreed that the rate of decay is highly variable dependent on conditions (unlike the decay of nuclear isotopes as per radiometric dating).

Finally, for all the hoopla, there is no evidence that Schweizer found any intact DNA fragments in the 68 million year old dinosaur bones. Even broken down nucleotides are impressive - but that is what is left after the DNA decay, not before. She also found evidence of some intact protein material...but again, that is not DNA.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#98100 Aug 19, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> Isn't that the truth, I've seen story's and alot of them lately , where people have been forced to reiterate what they
actually DID SAY. Because creationists twisted their words into meaning what they wanted. Just as Mary Schweitzer said she was embarrassed to be a christian because of how silly they acted and that they gave Christianity a bad name.
Quote mining and distortion of scientific findings: the stock in trade of creationists.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#98101 Aug 19, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
It's a paradox for the Big Bang.
God is no excuse, he is the answer.
First 3 words in the bible shows how important time is to the universe.
"we don't know" is not a paradox.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#98102 Aug 19, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
Most people consider that racist but I found that some on this thread don't believe that calling other races savages or stating they never conceived of something as simple as a sail as racist.
Whole races never conceived of a sail. Or a wheel, or metal, or agriculture. These are not value statements, they are simply facts.

Now, assuming that mental inferiority is the reason they did not conceive of these things would be racist. But we have better explanations. Degree of interconnectedness and the transmission of ideas, the fortune of where one happened to live, even a north south versus and east west constraint have been considered in this question. The reality is, humans of every race for almost the entirely of Homo Sapiens history lived as hunter gatherers without sails, wheels, metals, or agriculture.

Darwin lived in a racist, classist, and sexist world like everyone back then. He and his theory certainly did not invent racism which was also endemic in the Christian population of Europe (and most populations everywhere), for centuries. How about explaining all that before 1860, when biblical creationism was unquestionably the ruling philosophy of Europe?

But you carry on demonising Darwin if it makes you feel better. It makes not one iota difference to the validity of evolution today.

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

#98103 Aug 19, 2013
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>
So what view point of time would you lean towards, Newton or Kant?
What was Kant's viewpoint of time?

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#98104 Aug 19, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
Not what I said. I said Satan is fooling you. He created nothing. He whispers in the ear of science ridicules suggestions.
There is no Satan. Just nutjobs like you.

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

#98105 Aug 19, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
It's a paradox for the Big Bang.
God is no excuse, he is the answer.
First 3 words in the bible shows how important time is to the universe.
The first three words of the Bible are an assumption. The fourth is another.

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

#98106 Aug 19, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL
dote\ˈdōt\
intransitive verb
1 : to exhibit mental decline of or like that of old age : be in one's dotage
You're either poorly educated or jealous. Maybe both.

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#98107 Aug 19, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
What evidence do you have that God is false?
"In the beginning..." "... Amen"
youtubeNews

AOL

#98108 Aug 19, 2013
.

ISRAEL to give POPE "Custody" of Temple Mount -

http://youtu.be/Qt9kEQB4ti8

.

“Up with which, I will not put”

Since: Jul 08

Sao Paulo

#98109 Aug 19, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
Most of America's presidents have been Christian, if not all of them.
Why do you pick on Palin, because she is a female Christian?
We've had crazier men behind "The Button" who believe just as she does, they just don't tell you.
Aaaaaand THAT's why they can hold high positions.

The idea is that people should keep their religious beliefs (or lack of for that matter) to themselves. If someone wants to discuss their religious preference in public, that's what forums like this one is for. But as soon as a politician starts to babble about God or religion, he's lost my vote.

“Up with which, I will not put”

Since: Jul 08

Sao Paulo

#98110 Aug 19, 2013
youtubeNews wrote:
.
ISRAEL to give POPE "Custody" of Temple Mount -
http://youtu.be/Qt9kEQB4ti8
.
Seriously dude, we heard you the first 12 times you posted this. You may stop now, thank you.

“Up with which, I will not put”

Since: Jul 08

Sao Paulo

#98111 Aug 19, 2013
Tinka wrote:
To date up to date in date dates are soon nothing of any means unless you have something to schedule to agendarise it won't do you no good neither in that would time...
Oh.

*reaching slowly for phone, no sudden movements*

I see...

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