Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#96244 Aug 7, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/5...
Jump to page 3 to find the first part of the summary of his first video.
There seems to be a lot of topics recently asking for good arguements for creation, so since I've recently found this guy who, in my opinion, makes a very good arguement for creation I thought you guys would enjoy it, but first I want you guys to know that I'm nothing more than a layman when it comes to evolution so I can't argue on the lecturer's behalf, or at least not provide any more of an arguement then what you would find in the videos, so I'm going to ask you guys to watch a couple of them which are between an hour and an hour and a half each, so don't get mad at me for asking you to watch a long video, if you don't have the time or just don't want to then leave the thread and ignore it, I'm only making this thread because I want to share them.
First a little bit on the lecturer; his name's Walter Veith, born in Germany in 1949 and studied zoology in his home country, but recieved his PhD at the University of Cape Town in South Africa in 1979. His big achievement was being awarded the Royal Society London Grant for the Reconstruction and Development Program to establish a research climate in post-apartheid South Africa. So he has a good knowledge about evoltion, but he disagrees with it because there's just too many flaws in the theory for him to believe it and finds creation to be a much better explaination, on a scientific level, and he even gives evidence to support creation.
His story is pretty much that he was raised as a Catholic, had a bad experiace with Catholicism and became an athiest and studied evoltion, but gained so much knowledge about evolution that he realized it was nonsense and converted back to Christianity.
I have to say though, he's a bit quirky and has givin lectures on some, um, interesting topics, but he's a good man and I ask that you guys judge him on the evidence he provides and not, for example, what sect of Christianity he belongs to now-a-days.
And one last thing, he dosn't claim to have difinitive proof of creation and he makes that well known in the fist video, he just tell us "the other side of the story", showing us that evoltion easily has it's problems (not a "missing link" problem but major problems) and how creation is just as much a scientifically reasonable explaination for the creation of species and history of the earth (he even gives evidence for the flood of Noah). And he does use a few bible verses, so you'll have to deal with that kind of stuff too I'm afraid.
Now he has 8 lectures on the topic, but I'll only present the 6 that I think you guys will be interested in (less bible more science).
'+ Base64.decode($('spoiler_704b7 e5b62664f5eee6cd0ede6513f68'). innerHTML)+''); Element.remove('spoiler_704b7e 5b62664f5eee6cd0ede6513f68'); Element.remove(this);"
Spoiler: Click to View
here he talks about the issue with the Big Bang theory and carbon dating and gives some evidence support the flood of Noah, but I particularly want you guys to watch this one to the end because at the end he tells a story about a malachite stone that blew my mind and was quite interesting.
'+ Base64.decode($('spoiler_c1cfb a7d352ad2ca973e2ece7e7e93ea'). innerHTML)+''); Element.remove('spoiler_c1cfba 7d352ad2ca973e2ece7e7e93ea'); Element.remove(this);"
Spoiler: Click to View
This one is pretty much a whole hour of evidence supporting the flood of Noah
Please, I said a valid source. Any source that starts out praising him is obviously biased.

re you really this stupid?

A valid source is an independent source. Not that of some sycophant that will believe any nonsense that Veith spews. Try again.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#96245 Aug 7, 2013
_Savant_ wrote:
In my considerable experience and research, evolution is a myth invented by white people to help them hold sway over other peoples.
Since the theory of evolution holds that humans came from Africa and were not white that kinda underscores your ignorance, doesn't it?
_Savant_ wrote:
It is not possible for something as complicated as an eye to suddenly appear overnight, unless some Deity put it there.
The theory of evolution holds that eyes did not appear over night. Double underscore your ignorance.
_Savant_ wrote:
If there is a God, then there can be no evolution...
Why? Because your cartoon god isn't capable of creating evolution?
_Savant_ wrote:
...and we know there is a God.
How?
Every breath is a miracle.
You believe. And that's fine but unless you've met him, you don't *know*.
_Savant_ wrote:
...and the majority of humanity believe in a God, this is not, by the numbers, an atheist world.
If the existence of God were put to a world jury, the yes vote would be something like 6 billion to 1 billion, a majority verdict on any court on Earth.
So?
_Savant_ wrote:
God exists, Atheists, get over it, and prepare for an eternity of Brimstone...
From your loving god who promises to burn the crap out of everyone who doesn't do exactly what he says. Swell guy.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#96246 Aug 7, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
I just read where you had to ask someone about him.
You don't have a clue about him and in fact, you don't want to know the truth, do ya?
It would mess up your entire world.
Sad
I have linked his videos here in the past. Specifically naming spots where he was lying. And proving that he lied.

In one of his videos he lies about what geologists believes. Now he was supposedly a professor at a good sized school. There is quite a bit of interdepartment communication at a large school. He could not be a professor and not know that what he said was not the truth.

He is an worse than an idiot. You are an idiot, if you cared to educate yourself your problem could be fixed. He is educated and he chooses to lie. That is a bigger sin in my book.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#96247 Aug 7, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, really? lol!
Who did you speak to at the university? Got a name.
lol!
Check their website. Other than collaborating on some papers, there no mention of him.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#96248 Aug 7, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
I just read where you had to ask someone about him.
You don't have a clue about him and in fact, you don't want to know the truth, do ya?
It would mess up your entire world.
Sad
Here ya go, bozo. Here's his CV. Interesting that he doesn't mention a damn thing about creationism or any of his wingnut conspiracies. I wonder why that is? Maybe he knows he get laughed out of town. Or Cape Town.

http://pdf.amazingdiscoveries.org/Veith_Curri...

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#96249 Aug 7, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
No, it means you believe anything that is told to people if it has the title of being a 'scientific research paper'. You have made scientists your 'god'.
Do you not know that men will lie to you for money, career, power, prestige?
Science has became another political party, in a way.
There is plenty of proof of a global flood but just as Bible scripture states, the unbelievers will do anything to hide the truth of God, and that's exactly what the majority of scientist are doing.
Remember, everyone is born without faith in God.
Everyone is born as an enemy of God.
Everyone who is first born does not know God
and does not believe in God
and mocks God...
even every Christian on this thread.
When we tell you what we now know about God, its not to show pride in ourselves, it is ONLY to help you.
No scientists are not my God. Nothing so melodramatic.

Empirical evidence is my standard, and logical inferences made from that evidence.

You may kid yourswlf about mythical floods if it please you. We all know that beneath your noble protestations of faith there is merely a coward afraid to die, one who would convince himself that all scientists are liars but ralking snakes or for that matter the easter bunny is true, so long as he does not have to face his own mortality.
imagine2011

Southaven, MS

#96250 Aug 7, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Please, I said a valid source. Any source that starts out praising him is obviously biased.
re you really this stupid?
A valid source is an independent source. Not that of some sycophant that will believe any nonsense that Veith spews. Try again.
I'm getting them but Im sure you haven't even read what this guy had to say about him and his lecture videos.

Wouldn't want to upset that Evo-Cart, would we?
imagine2011

Southaven, MS

#96251 Aug 7, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Check their website. Other than collaborating on some papers, there no mention of him.
You're full of it! lol!

All you have to do is read is page 2

http://pdf.amazingdiscoveries.org/Veith_Curri...

UNIVERSITY OF THE WESTERN CAPE
1988 Sr lecturer Zoology

1989 Sr lecturer Zoology

SINCE 1990 Employed in dept of Zoology

1995-2002 Professor and chair of Zoology dept

2002-2004 Professor of medical Bioscience

Since 2005 Retired from academia...International lecturer etc.......
imagine2011

Southaven, MS

#96252 Aug 7, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
No scientists are not my God. Nothing so melodramatic.
Empirical evidence is my standard, and logical inferences made from that evidence.
You may kid yourswlf about mythical floods if it please you. We all know that beneath your noble protestations of faith there is merely a coward afraid to die, one who would convince himself that all scientists are liars but ralking snakes or for that matter the easter bunny is true, so long as he does not have to face his own mortality.
Do What???

lol!

'coward afraid to die'

What?

Have you been drinking to early today?

wow!
imagine2011

Southaven, MS

#96253 Aug 7, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
I have linked his videos here in the past. Specifically naming spots where he was lying. And proving that he lied.
In one of his videos he lies about what geologists believes. Now he was supposedly a professor at a good sized school. There is quite a bit of interdepartment communication at a large school. He could not be a professor and not know that what he said was not the truth.
He is an worse than an idiot. You are an idiot, if you cared to educate yourself your problem could be fixed. He is educated and he chooses to lie. That is a bigger sin in my book.
http://pdf.amazingdiscoveries.org/Veith_Curri...

Why when you disagree with another person's views, you ALWAYS call them a "LYING IDIOT" or worse.

very childish

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#96254 Aug 7, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
CONTINUED:
'+ Base64.decode($('spoiler_64369 594aff2f5fa432dba9b87ec8527'). innerHTML)+''); Element.remove('spoiler_643695 94aff2f5fa432dba9b87ec8527'); Element.remove(this);"
Spoiler: Click to View
Here he talks about some fallacies with our current understanding of fossils and he starts talking about the fallacis with evolution. This one's interesting because he counters the idea of "gradualism" by showing that the vast amount of species we have are just a result of their gene pool and them adapting to their environment as opposed to random mutations, which honastly makes more sense. He also makes some statements about carnivors which may not make much sense but he elaborates on it in the 6th lecture.
'+ Base64.decode($('spoiler_a59c9 89fe2ae2d4fbc8a5bfb1492a67d'). innerHTML)+''); Element.remove('spoiler_a59c98 9fe2ae2d4fbc8a5bfb1492a67d'); Element.remove(this);"
Spoiler: Click to View
Here he talks about some missing links, like whales for example who's closest relative according to evolution, as Darwin said, was a swimming bear.. and there's many missing links like this. Also he talks about the ice age which I found interesting because he brings up some fallacies over our understanding of ice cores, which to me debunks the whole global warming theory since it's pretty much based on ice cores. He also talks about genes a bit, explaining why us having 99% in common with a chimp dosn't prove we are decended from them.
'+ Base64.decode($('spoiler_7e06f 42f3fa0f301b871687e7a148c1f'). innerHTML)+''); Element.remove('spoiler_7e06f4 2f3fa0f301b871687e7a148c1f'); Element.remove(this);"
Spoiler: Click to View
Now this one I really want you guys to watch cause here he talks about Darwin in depth and just evicerates his whole theory, particularly concerning the chances of life randomly forming in the first place. The way he put it, he made it seem like evolution required just as much faith as anything else. It kind of makes me mad that I was taught evolution in school without any one teaching the downsides he points out in this vid.
'+ Base64.decode($('spoiler_aa798 e8b44b4850722056b999927c664'). innerHTML)+''); Element.remove('spoiler_aa798e 8b44b4850722056b999927c664'); Element.remove(this);"
Spoiler: Click to View
Now this one I think is his weakest arguement, he tries to prove that carnivores didn't exist at the beginning of time, but if you want to see someone try to attempt at proving that, he does a pretty good job and he expands on genes a little bit more.
I didn't totally convert to Christian fundamentalist after watching these, but I certainly do not believe in evolution, at least in it's current form and anyone who says that there's overwhelming proof for evolution obviously hasn't researched the topic as much as this guy has, perhaps athiests are putting their faith in the wrong religion?
You have shown in post after post how little you know about science. Now you are impressed by one bozo who even from this summary is clearly making the most elementary errors before he even gets started.

Learn what evolution ACTUALLY claims by reading ACTUAL materials about evolution by the scientists who understand it.

The level of ignorant criticism you present would be like me criticising the Bible if I have never read it and took all my information from anti-Christian Muslim commentators! What chance would there be that my criticisms were valid?

THAT is EXACTLY what you are doing.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#96255 Aug 7, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
You're full of it! lol!
All you have to do is read is page 2
http://pdf.amazingdiscoveries.org/Veith_Curri...
UNIVERSITY OF THE WESTERN CAPE
1988 Sr lecturer Zoology
1989 Sr lecturer Zoology
SINCE 1990 Employed in dept of Zoology
1995-2002 Professor and chair of Zoology dept
2002-2004 Professor of medical Bioscience
Since 2005 Retired from academia...International lecturer etc.......
That's not the university's website, dumbass.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#96256 Aug 7, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
http://pdf.amazingdiscoveries.org/Veith_Curri...
Why when you disagree with another person's views, you ALWAYS call them a "LYING IDIOT" or worse.
very childish
No, when a person continually uses idiotic reasoning, even after the topic has been carefully explained to them along with links to proper science I call them idiots.

When people use lying resources, such as creatard.com and they know that those sources lie I will call them liars.

I am more than happy to help those who WANT to learn. If you don't want to learn and do what you do you are clearly a lying idiot.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#96257 Aug 7, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm getting them but Im sure you haven't even read what this guy had to say about him and his lecture videos.
Wouldn't want to upset that Evo-Cart, would we?
Veith is so obviously wrong that he could not upset anything.

He is only useful because he will lie for the creatards, and even they are leery about him now that exactly how crazy he is is becoming public.
JBH

Richmond, Canada

#96258 Aug 7, 2013
Obama is wrong all the time with a lot of stands of radicalism. This is a total embarrassment of ALL TIME as Obama is the light weight, by making lots of deception.
He HAS USED the Snowden story in the mixed-up of calling G-20 Summit with no one single fact proven, nor with demonstrating any substance to the degree of what Snowden really has done, as he even whispered opinion on the case by by saying of going back to cold war.

Obama always thinks he is progressive by calling forward, yet everything he does is indeed beyond being backward, ridiculous and silly, which shows by doing the backwardness policy of his saying of cold war, and that contradicts and confronts what he says he is a forward progressive.

He would also use the very small tiny matter of feeling upset by making gay stand as being extremely confused and agitated about Russia's Scohi Olympic, which is totally impertinent and improper in the relevant business.

When he had high anxiety in the chemical weapons subject about Syria by calling red line, yet he could not demonstrate with one substantial single fact of clues, and why and what-unsuitable-that he is not, by being so pushy into shuffling into Syria, with no valid findings,like former Bush to Iraq.

Everything Obama says is lack of ground and that is why he is always discredited from what he says, by the world
IN respect to global business and agenda as the vast and big agenda related to G-20 Summit and International OLympics in modern forward direction of especially in these new times, not that everything Obama thinks and says is wrong , the advocacy of wrongs in the damages so caused to US people, the great weight of global importance of G-20 and International Sochi Olympics, would make the silly stocks of embarrassment and laughters of Obama.

Just who defies who--as it indicates that Obama defies global democracy, of which huge majority of world public deny everything of what Obama says, about Snowden, G-20, International Sochi Olympics policy ? When one asks any country around the world will do that reaction like Obama , that is highly impossible, because worldwide people are much better than Obama, as Obama is merely a lone soul in his opinion among huge global populations.
How can US be a Superpower, with no basic grasp and weight measure of big events as to facts realized, adjusted and knowing when Obama demonstrates such, which makes no sense in every case?

As Obama seems to be very immature in his conducts and shows inapt attitude, there is no question why US is going downhill and increasingly lacking weight stand on the world stage, simply he demonstrates the lack of capability, being totally irrational and unreasonable beyond the over limit in the nature of being so odd as the extremism of unfit position undertaken by him.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#96259 Aug 7, 2013
JBH wrote:
Obama is wrong all the time with a lot of stands of radicalism. This is a total embarrassment of ALL TIME as Obama is the light weight, by making lots of deception.
He HAS USED the Snowden story in the mixed-up of calling G-20 Summit with no one single fact proven, nor with demonstrating any substance to the degree of what Snowden really has done, as he even whispered opinion on the case by by saying of going back to cold war.
Obama always thinks he is progressive by calling forward, yet everything he does is indeed beyond being backward, ridiculous and silly, which shows by doing the backwardness policy of his saying of cold war, and that contradicts and confronts what he says he is a forward progressive.
He would also use the very small tiny matter of feeling upset by making gay stand as being extremely confused and agitated about Russia's Scohi Olympic, which is totally impertinent and improper in the relevant business.
When he had high anxiety in the chemical weapons subject about Syria by calling red line, yet he could not demonstrate with one substantial single fact of clues, and why and what-unsuitable-that he is not, by being so pushy into shuffling into Syria, with no valid findings,like former Bush to Iraq.
Everything Obama says is lack of ground and that is why he is always discredited from what he says, by the world
IN respect to global business and agenda as the vast and big agenda related to G-20 Summit and International OLympics in modern forward direction of especially in these new times, not that everything Obama thinks and says is wrong , the advocacy of wrongs in the damages so caused to US people, the great weight of global importance of G-20 and International Sochi Olympics, would make the silly stocks of embarrassment and laughters of Obama.
Just who defies who--as it indicates that Obama defies global democracy, of which huge majority of world public deny everything of what Obama says, about Snowden, G-20, International Sochi Olympics policy ? When one asks any country around the world will do that reaction like Obama , that is highly impossible, because worldwide people are much better than Obama, as Obama is merely a lone soul in his opinion among huge global populations.
How can US be a Superpower, with no basic grasp and weight measure of big events as to facts realized, adjusted and knowing when Obama demonstrates such, which makes no sense in every case?
As Obama seems to be very immature in his conducts and shows inapt attitude, there is no question why US is going downhill and increasingly lacking weight stand on the world stage, simply he demonstrates the lack of capability, being totally irrational and unreasonable beyond the over limit in the nature of being so odd as the extremism of unfit position undertaken by him.
It's even worse than that.

imagine2011

Southaven, MS

#96260 Aug 7, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
You have shown in post after post how little you know about science. Now you are impressed by one bozo who even from this summary is clearly making the most elementary errors before he even gets started.
Learn what evolution ACTUALLY claims by reading ACTUAL materials about evolution by the scientists who understand it.
The level of ignorant criticism you present would be like me criticising the Bible if I have never read it and took all my information from anti-Christian Muslim commentators! What chance would there be that my criticisms were valid?
THAT is EXACTLY what you are doing.
I love watching you guys get your feathers up, claws out and tongues of fire lit up. All it takes is showing how wrong you are, evidence to the contrary and boy do the criticisms and attacks fly.

There is plenty of evidence in God, that is so obvious that a child can see it, and billions of people around the world laughing at your unbelievable 'crazy evo' ideas.
Dak-Original

Caerphilly, UK

#96261 Aug 7, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
Yoga as a physical stretching exercise is fine, but when you use it spiritually, emptying and opening your mind up to any thoughts, you are inviting spirits, of any kind, to invade your mind.
This is forbidden by God.
So you believe in the authority of God! Inviting "spirits" to invade one's mind? You are fully detached from reality due to your blind following of a belief system.

Dak-Original

Caerphilly, UK

#96262 Aug 7, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
It is a faith.
Reason: you have faith in many of the 'conclusions' that have now been shown to have fatal flaws.
There will be faulty fringes in the now mainly proved fact of the Evolution of the Species and after the Human Genome Project of 2003 you are crazy to use words "fatal flaws". Wake up now!
Dak-Original

Caerphilly, UK

#96263 Aug 7, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
Here are just a few, I'll be back with 'plenty' more.
The Taung child in South Africa. This fossil was once rejected as a human ancestor. It has since been accepted.
The Piltdown Hoax. A human skull and Orangutan’s jaw were altered to make evolution look credible.
The Nebraska Man. In 1917, geologist Harold Cook found a tooth. Scientists believed it was from an undiscovered ape, an ancestor of humans. However, in 1925 scientists discovered that the tooth actually belonged to an extinct pig.
Neanderthals. The original descriptions of the Neanderthal fossils were distorted to make the fossils seem more primitive than they are.
Ramapithecus. This species was once considered a human ancestor, but is now known only as a relative of the orangutan.
East African Volcanic Dating. There is a heated debate over the age of a volcanic layer that is associated with human fossils in East Africa.
Australopithecines. Paleoanthropologists Richard Leakey and Donald Johanson disagree on where the newer Lucy-type finds were located.
The Force of Change. There are ongoing conflicts about whether predation, hunting, or cooperation caused human evolution.
Lewin says this about the theory of human evolution:
In the physical realm, any theory of human evolution must explain how it was that an apelike ancestor, equipped with powerful jaws and long, daggerlike canine teeth and able to run at speed on four limbs, became transformed into a slow, bipedal animal whose natural means of defense were at best puny. Add to this the power of intellect, speech, and morality, upon which we “stand raised as upon the mountain top” as Huxley put it, and one has the complete challenge to the evolutionary theory.
But the Human Genome Project of 2003 has the last word and the above is copy paste of matters raised by creation apologists prior to 2003.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Weird Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Why are all the phagues posting tonight? 9 min A Noted Ferrerman 2
Should the St Patricks Day parade be open to th... 14 min The Geno 8
What song are you listening to right now? (Apr '08) 20 min stray-cat 152,828
I Like..... (Mar '14) 20 min Hatti_Hollerand 526
Last Post Wins! (Aug '08) 26 min Hatti_Hollerand 138,410
hoosier hillbilly (Sep '12) 40 min Hoosier Hillbilly 1,567
El's Kitchen (Feb '09) 41 min eleanorigby 37,767
What are you thinking about now? (Jun '10) 1 hr hagel blow hard 25,921
Woman Switches Seats on Plane, Spends 3 Days in... 2 hr Spotted Girl 16
BAN(N) the P0STER Above you !!! (Feb '14) 4 hr andet1987 3,018
More from around the web