Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 173937 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

Level 1

Since: Jun 13

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#96269 Aug 7, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>I am a Christian and believe in God. I am a Methodist if that helps. Now was that so hard to actually ask a meaningful question?

Of course now you will perhaps feel justified in calling me a false Christian or a liar. Feel free if that is what you choose to do. Keep in mind that I don't consider religious views directly relevant to science and that this is a science forum.
"I am a Christian"

Hitler said the same thing. I didn't believe him either.

"and believe in God."

This I have no doubt.
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Since: Jun 13

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#96270 Aug 7, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>Oh, and now you can stop complaining that the question was dodged. I think I covered that too.
Where did time come from?

I must have missed it in your post. I went back and re read it but still I don't see where you explained where time came from?
Level 1

Since: Jun 13

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#96271 Aug 7, 2013
JM_Brazil wrote:
<quoted text>You seem to be considering time as a physical property, which is most certainly not - time is a reference, a dimension. Time can be slowed in reference to C, and may also be absent.
Where is time absent?

Nothing can exist without time.
Nothing can happen without time.
Nothing can change without time.

So where is time absent?
And where is the proof of this claim?
Level 1

Since: Jun 13

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#96272 Aug 7, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>Clearly that isn't the truth.
The evidence says if time stops the clock simply quits ticking.
If time stopped on a universal scale, we wouldn't even have ever known it. But we can alter the ticks of clocks within the original
clock that started 13.7 bya.

Your question should be is the original clock, within another clock, or are there other clocks ? We simply cannot answer that.
But there most likely is. But more importantly ask the question
of whether we can detect the presence of a previous clock.
It maybe possible, and we maybe able to do this soon, with the Webb telescope after it gets in position and looks back toward the beginning.
Time is not a constant. This I am very aware of. Time is not a solid of this I'm aware. Science claims time started 13.7 billion years ago of this I'm aware. If time stopped we would not know it, I am aware of this.

Where did time come from?
Level 1

Since: Jun 13

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#96273 Aug 7, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>Then why aren't you asking where length or height or depth came from?
Time came from the same place they did.
We got them at the dimension store.
They came together in a package deal.
I picked just one. Is there a rule that I can't question about just one?

Where did time come from?
Level 1

Since: Jun 13

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#96274 Aug 7, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>Aah, you are a denying idiot.
Time still running! and according to science it's been running non stop for 13.7 billion years.

Now, where did time come from?
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Since: Jun 13

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#96275 Aug 7, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>Yes, for you it is impossible to stop time. You will never find yourself falling into a black hole. Nor will you ever approach the speed of light.

For a photon or something that falls into a black hole that is not the case. A photon experiences no time. To a photon it is everywhere along its path instantaneously.

I gave you a reference that supported my beliefs, what do you have that supports yours??
Prove that time would stop if I fell into a black hole.

Millions and millions of items have been sucked into black hole all over the universes. Time is still ticking non stop.
Level 1

Since: Jun 13

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#96276 Aug 7, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>Time is a vector quantity.

Now imagine 2 time vectors, one at right angles to the other. An infinity of time can elapse on one before a moment passes on the other. In that sense you would say time has stopped for whatever reference frame is at right angles to your own.

And thats about the size of it. Time slowing or stopping is merely one vector out of parallel with another.
I hear ya, and know exactly what your quoting. There truly is a lot of fascinating things about time. Time did not stop however.

Where did time come from?
Level 1

Since: Jun 13

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#96277 Aug 7, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>*sigh*

Evolution is not a faith.

It's a conclusion.
Scientific theory have testable obvious able facts.

Just give us one proof of macro evolution. Not one species changing into another species. There are over 14 definitions of species. Macro evolution where one kind changes into another kind.

Evolutionist claim millions of time this has happened. Please just give one example.
Level 1

Since: Jun 13

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#96278 Aug 7, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>No, it means you believe anything that is told to people if it has the title of being a 'scientific research paper'. You have made scientists your 'god'.

Do you not know that men will lie to you for money, career, power, prestige?

Science has became another political party, in a way.

There is plenty of proof of a global flood but just as Bible scripture states, the unbelievers will do anything to hide the truth of God, and that's exactly what the majority of scientist are doing.

Remember, everyone is born without faith in God.

Everyone is born as an enemy of God.

Everyone who is first born does not know God

and does not believe in God

and mocks God...

even every Christian on this thread.

When we tell you what we now know about God, its not to show pride in ourselves, it is ONLY to help you.
"There is plenty of proof of a global flood but just as Bible scripture states"

Check out the thread
"Noah's Flood Real"
Level 1

Since: Jun 13

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#96279 Aug 7, 2013
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>And an example of one of those 'fatal flaws', please?
Wikipedia:
If anyone finds a case where all or part of a scientific theory is false, then that theory is either changed or thrown out.

A scientific theory in one branch of science must hold true in all of the other branches of science.

From Nova:

"For decades, every attempt to describe the force of gravity in the same language as the other forces—the language of quantum mechanics—has met with disaster

S. JAMES GATES, JR.: You try to put those two pieces of mathematics together, they do not coexist peacefully.
The laws of nature are supposed to apply everywhere. So if Einstein's laws are supposed to apply everywhere, and the laws of quantum mechanics are supposed to apply everywhere, well you can't have two separate everywheres.

BRIAN GREENE: In the years since, physics split into two separate camps: one that uses general relativity to study big and heavy objects, things like stars, galaxies and the universe as a whole...

...and another that uses quantum mechanics to study the tiniest of objects, like atoms and particles. This has been kind of like having two families that just cannot get along and never talk to each other...
There just seemed to be no way to combine quantum mechanics...

and general relativity in a single theory that could describe the universe on all scales.

So here's the question: if you're trying to figure out what happens in the depths of a black hole, where an entire star is crushed to a tiny speck, do you use general relativity because the star is incredibly heavy or quantum mechanics because it's incredibly tiny?

Well, that's the problem. Since the center of a black hole is both tiny and heavy, you can't avoid using both theories at the same time. And when we try to put the two theories together in the realm of black holes, they conflict. It breaks down. They give nonsensical predictions. And the universe is not nonsensical; it's got to make sense.

BRIAN GREENE: It's a little known secret but for more than half a century a dark cloud has been looming over modern science. Here's the problem: our understanding of the universe is based on two separate theories. One is Einstein's general theory of relativity—that's a way of understanding the biggest things in the universe, things like stars and galaxies. But the littlest things in the universe, atoms and subatomic particles, play by an entirely different set of rules called, "quantum Mechanics"

These two sets of rules are each incredibly accurate in their own domain but whenever we try to combine them, to solve some of the deepest mysteries in the universe, disaster strikes.

Take the beginning of the universe, the "big bang." At that instant a tiny nugget erupted violently. Over the next 14 billion years the universe expanded and cooled into the stars, galaxies and planets we see today. But if we run the cosmic film in reverse, everything that's now rushing apart comes back together, so the universe gets smaller, hotter and denser as we head back to the beginning of time.

As we reach the big bang, when the universe was both enormously heavy and incredibly tiny, our projector jams. Our two laws of physics, when combined, break down.
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#96281 Aug 7, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>Sorry, if you are saying God had to exist to make the universe then you are only moving the goalposts. Who had to make god then? If you say God has always been that is exactly the same as saying the universe has always been in existence.

And no, there is no evidence of a flood.

Only people who are ignorant of geology would say anything so foolish.
God was not made.

Time is the Paradox for the Big Bang.

There is evidence all over world of The world wide flood.

“The Edge”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Of Tomorow

#96282 Aug 7, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
I picked just one. Is there a rule that I can't question about just one?
Where did time come from?
I'd tell you , but then I'd have to kill you.

“I can never convince the ”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

stupid that they are stupid.

#96283 Aug 7, 2013
SBT wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, and the more you show them their error, the madder they get, accusing, stereotyping and attacking you personally, offering nothing to refute the evidence but taking sidestreets and offering paper arguments. But they did the same to Christ.
Dr. Maynard Miller, Americas most experienced glaciologist in his day, told me that there is not a single ice cap in the world with more than 5000 yrs of cyclic ice accumulation, as after those depths the ice homogenizes and then they estimate age by compression and length; as far as varves, they have found fossilized fish in multiple varves, covered and killed catastrophically. Hence ice core dating and varves prove nothing for evolution but support a creation model.
I have spent over 30 years working underground world-wide and in every case, I have never once seen strata that shows nothing less than the picture the Bible paints - That this world was made out of water with water and was subsequently destroyed by water.(See Great Unconformity link) I approach this with fear. Uniformity in general has been operating with the exception of local catastrophic events like St. Helens, which only more prove a flood model.
The comment venue of blogs and bantering sounds nice if your education is evolutionary and field experience is google and talk-origins. Evolution is a belief system based on faith easily refuted. You just have to ask the right questions -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =zaKryi3605gXX
http://youngearth.com/grand-canyon-nautiloids
http://www.icr.org/article/2032/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Unconformi...
Oh no. Here we go again with all the name dropping and unsubstantiated dogma and pseudoscience.

Evolution is not a belief system. You don't even have the right lies, let alone the right questions. You avoid my questions everytime I ask one and twist like a fish on the line hoping to get loose.

I will have to look up this glaciologist you mention. Is he dead too and unable to refute what you say?
Level 1

Since: Jun 13

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#96284 Aug 7, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>I do? Really?

Cite one.
String theory.

“I can never convince the ”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

stupid that they are stupid.

#96285 Aug 7, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> You idiot!
Antarctica is thought to have been covered by ice for over 30 million years. So far, scientists have drilled ice cores stretching back 800,000 years, and they are now working to extend their records back to 1.4 million years ago.
http://www.nhm.ac.uk/nature-online/environmen...
This guy is just well read in creationist propaganda and detached enough to weave it into a personalized, fabricated back story.

“I can never convince the ”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

stupid that they are stupid.

#96286 Aug 7, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
God was not made.
Time is the Paradox for the Big Bang.
There is evidence all over world of The world wide flood.
There is no evidence of a world wide flood at 4300 years ago or anytime in the last 200,000 years. Not only no evidence, but nothing even supporting the possibility of a flood under the conditions described in Genesis. This does not refute the existence of God or gods and does not change my belief at all. I thought it was a nice little story even when I was a child.

“I can never convince the ”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

stupid that they are stupid.

#96287 Aug 7, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
"I am a Christian"
Hitler said the same thing. I didn't believe him either.
"and believe in God."
This I have no doubt.
I am not surprised at all that you would say this. In fact, it is exactly what I expected. To be fair, I don't care what you believe. Your belief hasn't shown itself to be backed by much in the way of intelligence anyway and has no impact on my belief.

Now are you ever going to elaborate on the cut and paste you did about evolution? I am waiting. I mean I would like to think that a person that is as high and mighty as you seem to think you are, understands what he posts and isn't just a doorknob.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#96288 Aug 7, 2013
SBT wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, and the more you show them their error, the madder they get, accusing, stereotyping and attacking you personally, offering nothing to refute the evidence but taking sidestreets and offering paper arguments. But they did the same to Christ.
Dr. Maynard Miller, Americas most experienced glaciologist in his day, told me that there is not a single ice cap in the world with more than 5000 yrs of cyclic ice accumulation, as after those depths the ice homogenizes and then they estimate age by compression and length; as far as varves, they have found fossilized fish in multiple varves, covered and killed catastrophically. Hence ice core dating and varves prove nothing for evolution but support a creation model.
I have spent over 30 years working underground world-wide and in every case, I have never once seen strata that shows nothing less than the picture the Bible paints - That this world was made out of water with water and was subsequently destroyed by water.(See Great Unconformity link) I approach this with fear. Uniformity in general has been operating with the exception of local catastrophic events like St. Helens, which only more prove a flood model.
The comment venue of blogs and bantering sounds nice if your education is evolutionary and field experience is google and talk-origins. Evolution is a belief system based on faith easily refuted. You just have to ask the right questions -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =zaKryi3605gXX
http://youngearth.com/grand-canyon-nautiloids
http://www.icr.org/article/2032/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Unconformi...
Please stop with the stories. I doubt if you knew Miller, but I am sure he would not appreciate you calling him a fool.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#96289 Aug 7, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
Time still running! and according to science it's been running non stop for 13.7 billion years.
Now, where did time come from?
Yes, where we are. The examples given are were different.

You just admitted earlier that time you know time runs at different rates at different places. The claim was never for stopping time everywhere, only that it can be stopped locally.

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