Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#96223 Aug 7, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
There is certainly some undertone in his speeches that modern Israel is not the Israel of the bible and should not be accorded any legitimacy.
I have only listened to his comments about the Flood. He is so laughably wrong there it is ridiculous. And he does openly lie in those lectures.

I would not doubt that he could have some antisemitic leaning too.
imagine2011

Southaven, MS

#96224 Aug 7, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
I went to check out one of imagine's videos and found that typical of chickenshit creatards that the ability to comment had been turned off.
Creationists hate it when others point out how their nonsense is debunked by the real world.
You haven't had time to watch any of the videos. I see how much you want to be open minded to the other side of these issues.

What did you do? Just go there and try to make negative statements and then you left when you couldn't degrade someone?
imagine2011

Southaven, MS

#96225 Aug 7, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
He lost his job because he's a friggin loony.
http://janalanmckenzie.wordpress.com/2008/12/...
Oh please, give me a break. These people are the loonies.

I can show you hundreds, if not thousands of comments from people who love his work.
imagine2011

Southaven, MS

#96226 Aug 7, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
I have only listened to his comments about the Flood. He is so laughably wrong there it is ridiculous. And he does openly lie in those lectures.
I would not doubt that he could have some antisemitic leaning too.
Like I said, you haven't had time to listen to the video.

You just have the mindset that you're not going to be open to any other ideas than your 'scientist' have brainwashed you to.
imagine2011

Southaven, MS

#96227 Aug 7, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
He lost his job because he's a friggin loony.
http://janalanmckenzie.wordpress.com/2008/12/...
Oh, I forgot to add, the same university, after a few months of firing him, re-hired him saying he didn't have to teach evolution anymore.

Check it out.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#96228 Aug 7, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh please, give me a break. These people are the loonies.
I can show you hundreds, if not thousands of comments from people who love his work.
There's a lot of loonies. So what?

Interesting that his own church disavows him.

You seem to think this is the first time his name has come it. It isn't.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#96229 Aug 7, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
He lost his job because he's a friggin loony.
http://janalanmckenzie.wordpress.com/2008/12/...
Oh my!!

He is a Troofer! Of course many creatards are conspiracy theory nuts too.

Pure Gold>

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#96230 Aug 7, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, I forgot to add, the same university, after a few months of firing him, re-hired him saying he didn't have to teach evolution anymore.
Check it out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =LETvVezBXioXX
Walter Vieth talking about his own history is not a valid source. You should be able to find an independent source that backs up this claim.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#96231 Aug 7, 2013
I almost forgot, Imagine, you should be able to find an independent source backing up Veith's claims. Provided that they are true.
imagine2011

Southaven, MS

#96232 Aug 7, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
There's a lot of loonies. So what?
Interesting that his own church disavows him.
You seem to think this is the first time his name has come it. It isn't.
There are hundreds of comments of people from his own church that love his teachings, you just picked the ones who don't.

I know this isn't the first time his name has come up, but its the first time I had the energy to type this much and defend him.

You know nothing about him, yet you degrade him on less than 15 loony comments.

Which lectures have you watched in full?

Any at all.

I didn't think so.

“River of tears flowing out of ”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

West Plains

#96233 Aug 7, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh please, give me a break. These people are the loonies.
I can show you hundreds, if not thousands of comments from people who love his work.
People who didn't have much understanding of science to begin with.

Why don't you open your mind to the possibility that Veith is not making claims based on science and those familiar with science might recognize that. What do you think? Is that possible?

“River of tears flowing out of ”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

West Plains

#96234 Aug 7, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
Like I said, you haven't had time to listen to the video.
You just have the mindset that you're not going to be open to any other ideas than your 'scientist' have brainwashed you to.
You are not going to open your mind to the possibility that you have sought out only information that supports what you believe and have never taken an honest look at this or other contradictory information.

And you guys push for teaching the alternative. Such hypocrisy.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#96235 Aug 7, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
There are hundreds of comments of people from his own church that love his teachings, you just picked the ones who don't.
Easy to say.
imagine2011 wrote:
I know this isn't the first time his name has come up, but its the first time I had the energy to type this much and defend him.
Bully for you. I didn't realize typing was so exhausting.
imagine2011 wrote:
You know nothing about him, yet you degrade him on less than 15 loony comments.
Which lectures have you watched in full?
Any at all.
I didn't think so.
You don't know what I know and I don't really care what you think.

Interesting that the University of Western Cape seems to have no reference to him.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#96236 Aug 7, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
Like I said, you haven't had time to listen to the video.
You just have the mindset that you're not going to be open to any other ideas than your 'scientist' have brainwashed you to.
I have watched his videos in the past.

I don't need to watch them again.

Once someone lies in a position like his he loses all credibility. Walter Veith lies all of the time.
imagine2011

Southaven, MS

#96238 Aug 7, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Walter Vieth talking about his own history is not a valid source. You should be able to find an independent source that backs up this claim.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/5...

Jump to page 3 to find the first part of the summary of his first video.
There seems to be a lot of topics recently asking for good arguements for creation, so since I've recently found this guy who, in my opinion, makes a very good arguement for creation I thought you guys would enjoy it, but first I want you guys to know that I'm nothing more than a layman when it comes to evolution so I can't argue on the lecturer's behalf, or at least not provide any more of an arguement then what you would find in the videos, so I'm going to ask you guys to watch a couple of them which are between an hour and an hour and a half each, so don't get mad at me for asking you to watch a long video, if you don't have the time or just don't want to then leave the thread and ignore it, I'm only making this thread because I want to share them.
First a little bit on the lecturer; his name's Walter Veith, born in Germany in 1949 and studied zoology in his home country, but recieved his PhD at the University of Cape Town in South Africa in 1979. His big achievement was being awarded the Royal Society London Grant for the Reconstruction and Development Program to establish a research climate in post-apartheid South Africa. So he has a good knowledge about evoltion, but he disagrees with it because there's just too many flaws in the theory for him to believe it and finds creation to be a much better explaination, on a scientific level, and he even gives evidence to support creation.
His story is pretty much that he was raised as a Catholic, had a bad experiace with Catholicism and became an athiest and studied evoltion, but gained so much knowledge about evolution that he realized it was nonsense and converted back to Christianity.
I have to say though, he's a bit quirky and has givin lectures on some, um, interesting topics, but he's a good man and I ask that you guys judge him on the evidence he provides and not, for example, what sect of Christianity he belongs to now-a-days.
And one last thing, he dosn't claim to have difinitive proof of creation and he makes that well known in the fist video, he just tell us "the other side of the story", showing us that evoltion easily has it's problems (not a "missing link" problem but major problems) and how creation is just as much a scientifically reasonable explaination for the creation of species and history of the earth (he even gives evidence for the flood of Noah). And he does use a few bible verses, so you'll have to deal with that kind of stuff too I'm afraid.
Now he has 8 lectures on the topic, but I'll only present the 6 that I think you guys will be interested in (less bible more science).
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Spoiler: Click to View
here he talks about the issue with the Big Bang theory and carbon dating and gives some evidence support the flood of Noah, but I particularly want you guys to watch this one to the end because at the end he tells a story about a malachite stone that blew my mind and was quite interesting.
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This one is pretty much a whole hour of evidence supporting the flood of Noah
imagine2011

Southaven, MS

#96239 Aug 7, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>You are not going to open your mind to the possibility that you have sought out only information that supports what you believe and have never taken an honest look at this or other contradictory information.
And you guys push for teaching the alternative. Such hypocrisy.
WRONG

I have watched tons of videos and read a lot of PRO-space, moon, stars, earth, evolution, non-religious materials.

I definitely have an open mind.

I try desperately to see where you guys are coming from and study up to discuss with you.
imagine2011

Southaven, MS

#96240 Aug 7, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Easy to say.
<quoted text>
Bully for you. I didn't realize typing was so exhausting.
<quoted text>
You don't know what I know and I don't really care what you think.
Interesting that the University of Western Cape seems to have no reference to him.
Oh, really? lol!

Who did you speak to at the university? Got a name.

lol!
imagine2011

Southaven, MS

#96241 Aug 7, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>People who didn't have much understanding of science to begin with.
Why don't you open your mind to the possibility that Veith is not making claims based on science and those familiar with science might recognize that. What do you think? Is that possible?
How would you know anything about Veith?

All you've done is latched on to criticisms about him but you have never sat down and watched many of his videos.

If you did, it would upset the apple cart.

In fact, he has upset it.

The Catholic church (and all its power) are attacking him with false allegations because he exposes them.

Anti-semetism???

Riiiiiight, pffff.
imagine2011

Southaven, MS

#96242 Aug 7, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
I have watched his videos in the past.
I don't need to watch them again.
Once someone lies in a position like his he loses all credibility. Walter Veith lies all of the time.
I just read where you had to ask someone about him.

You don't have a clue about him and in fact, you don't want to know the truth, do ya?

It would mess up your entire world.

Sad
imagine2011

Southaven, MS

#96243 Aug 7, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
CONTINUED:

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Here he talks about some fallacies with our current understanding of fossils and he starts talking about the fallacis with evolution. This one's interesting because he counters the idea of "gradualism" by showing that the vast amount of species we have are just a result of their gene pool and them adapting to their environment as opposed to random mutations, which honastly makes more sense. He also makes some statements about carnivors which may not make much sense but he elaborates on it in the 6th lecture.

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Here he talks about some missing links, like whales for example who's closest relative according to evolution, as Darwin said, was a swimming bear.. and there's many missing links like this. Also he talks about the ice age which I found interesting because he brings up some fallacies over our understanding of ice cores, which to me debunks the whole global warming theory since it's pretty much based on ice cores. He also talks about genes a bit, explaining why us having 99% in common with a chimp dosn't prove we are decended from them.

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Now this one I really want you guys to watch cause here he talks about Darwin in depth and just evicerates his whole theory, particularly concerning the chances of life randomly forming in the first place. The way he put it, he made it seem like evolution required just as much faith as anything else. It kind of makes me mad that I was taught evolution in school without any one teaching the downsides he points out in this vid.

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Now this one I think is his weakest arguement, he tries to prove that carnivores didn't exist at the beginning of time, but if you want to see someone try to attempt at proving that, he does a pretty good job and he expands on genes a little bit more.
I didn't totally convert to Christian fundamentalist after watching these, but I certainly do not believe in evolution, at least in it's current form and anyone who says that there's overwhelming proof for evolution obviously hasn't researched the topic as much as this guy has, perhaps athiests are putting their faith in the wrong religion?

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