Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Dubai, UAE

#96137 Aug 6, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
They don't want the answer they want a science explanation of where time came from. Because they can't answer with science they will dodge it.
I wont.

Time, distance, and mass/energy are the fundamentals of physics and cannot be explained by any reference to other quantities. All other things are meaured as a relationship between these three fundamentals. For example acceleration is distance / time / time. You can only grasp the 3 fundamentals immediately and intuitively, by experience. They are foundational.

But that is not the same thing as claiming they are constant. Einstein showed that the rate at which time flows can vary. At the extremes of lightspeed and infinite gravity time stops according to general relativity. Is that correct? We cannot be sure but we DO know that time behaves consistently with Einstein's predictions over the range we can measure so as far as we know it IS correct.

“River of tears flowing out of ”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

West Plains

#96138 Aug 6, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
You have strange beliefs for an atheist.
So now I am an atheist. I must be an atheist because I am not a fundamentalist and I accept and use science. Once again I am in awe of the fundamentalist arrogance coupled enthusiastically with ignorance and without the hint of a clue.

“Up with which, I will not put”

Since: Jul 08

Sao Paulo

#96139 Aug 6, 2013
Think about it wrote:
And the point of your link is what? That the speed of light slows down as it passes through things then regains it's speed? A man that is running at 17 mph and runs through a wall he as well will slow down but as he goes on he will regain his speed. Nothing in that link said anything about anything making time stand still.
Aura's point, which was very well explained in understandable terms for your bnefit, is that light can slow in RELATION to time, thus stopping time. Your reference to time cannot be compared to light's reference. You should do some research, it's a facsinating topic.

Level 1

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#96140 Aug 6, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>You should really think before you post.

He gave you two examples of how time can be stopped, you idiot.
You are dead wrong time cannot be stopped. There are black holes all over the universe but yet here I am experiencing Time. That's either weird or the two of you are wrong.

I'm guessing that later.

Level 1

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#96141 Aug 6, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>in fact, it is absolutely correct.
Wrong. In fact it's Gibberish.

Level 1

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#96142 Aug 6, 2013
Dr_Dirty wrote:
<quoted text>Time is the only constant that keeps everything from happening at once.
Yes with out time if one was not held to the laws of the universe, one could always exist and have always existed.
You know like the Alpha and the Omega.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#96143 Aug 6, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>So now I am an atheist. I must be an atheist because I am not a fundamentalist and I accept and use science. Once again I am in awe of the fundamentalist arrogance coupled enthusiastically with ignorance and without the hint of a clue.
You may enjoy this:
http://www.salon.com/2013/08/06/when_fundamen...
RedHorseRevelati on

AOL

#96148 Aug 6, 2013
.

Bible PROOF 1.5 BIL MUSLIMS to die --

http://youtu.be/n7ok0g8iwJI

.

Level 1

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#96149 Aug 6, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>I wont.

Time, distance, and mass/energy are the fundamentals of physics and cannot be explained by any reference to other quantities. All other things are meaured as a relationship between these three fundamentals. For example acceleration is distance / time / time. You can only grasp the 3 fundamentals immediately and intuitively, by experience. They are foundational.

But that is not the same thing as claiming they are constant. Einstein showed that the rate at which time flows can vary. At the extremes of lightspeed and infinite gravity time stops according to general relativity. Is that correct? We cannot be sure but we DO know that time behaves consistently with Einstein's predictions over the range we can measure so as far as we know it IS correct.
I am quite aware that time does have different speed depending on gravity.
That's not the question.

The question is.

In the Big Bang theory where did time come from.

We know for a fact that nothing can exist with out time. The BB claims time started 13.7 billion years ago.
So where did time come from?

Level 1

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#96150 Aug 6, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>So now I am an atheist. I must be an atheist because I am not a fundamentalist and I accept and use science. Once again I am in awe of the fundamentalist arrogance coupled enthusiastically with ignorance and without the hint of a clue.
dan do you believe there is a God or gods?

Level 1

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#96151 Aug 6, 2013
JM_Brazil wrote:
<quoted text>Aura's point, which was very well explained in understandable terms for your bnefit, is that light can slow in RELATION to time, thus stopping time. Your reference to time cannot be compared to light's reference. You should do some research, it's a facsinating topic.
WRONG. Time cannot be stopped.
If time stopped all matter, space, and energy would stop existing.

“River of tears flowing out of ”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

West Plains

#96152 Aug 6, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
You may enjoy this:
http://www.salon.com/2013/08/06/when_fundamen...
Thanks Mike. I did indeed enjoy the article. It hits the nail right on the head and codifies the views I have been formulating for some years.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Dubai, UAE

#96153 Aug 6, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
I am quite aware that time does have different speed depending on gravity.
That's not the question.
The question is.
In the Big Bang theory where did time come from.
We know for a fact that nothing can exist with out time. The BB claims time started 13.7 billion years ago.
So where did time come from?
We have no idea of if there was time "before" the big bang or not. The question of where time came from is a genuine mystery. But papering over a genuine mystery with "therefore Goddidit" is senseless. You cannot know that. Nor can non-believers know its not true.

There is only one honest answer, and that is that we don't know why there is time or why there is anything at all. That would include "why is there God" if indeed there is one.

As for your claim that black holes cannot stop time, you seem to imagine that they would stop time everywhere, but that is not what relativity claims. Time will stop only at the event horizon - the "boundary surface" of the black hole itself. Time will continue to move forward above that horizon, the faster the further away until it reaches its "ground rate" when gravity approaches zero.

Therefore there can be many black holes in the universe without time as a whole stopping. And don't fret just because its hard to make sense of it. Physicists spend years getting their heads around it but A/ it makes sense when you understand how it works and B/ every experimental measure to date confirms it whether you like it or not.

“River of tears flowing out of ”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

West Plains

#96154 Aug 6, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
dan do you believe there is a God or gods?
I am a Christian and believe in God. I am a Methodist if that helps. Now was that so hard to actually ask a meaningful question?

Of course now you will perhaps feel justified in calling me a false Christian or a liar. Feel free if that is what you choose to do. Keep in mind that I don't consider religious views directly relevant to science and that this is a science forum.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Dubai, UAE

#96155 Aug 6, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
I am quite aware that time does have different speed depending on gravity.
That's not the question.
The question is.
In the Big Bang theory where did time come from.
We know for a fact that nothing can exist with out time. The BB claims time started 13.7 billion years ago.
So where did time come from?
Oh, and now you can stop complaining that the question was dodged. I think I covered that too.

“Up with which, I will not put”

Since: Jul 08

Sao Paulo

#96156 Aug 6, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
WRONG. Time cannot be stopped.
If time stopped all matter, space, and energy would stop existing.
You seem to be considering time as a physical property, which is most certainly not - time is a reference, a dimension. Time can be slowed in reference to C, and may also be absent.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#96157 Aug 6, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
I am quite aware that time does have different speed depending on gravity.
That's not the question.
The question is.
In the Big Bang theory where did time come from.
We know for a fact that nothing can exist with out time. The BB claims time started 13.7 billion years ago.
So where did time come from?
No the questions are....
1. "Does time even exist?"
2. "Does time exist beyond human perception?"

1a. As a inseparable and intertwined property of this universe.

2. I think it does but humans are limited to a single perception of it, where clearly there is a dimensional quality we struggle to comprehend. We are physically bound to a single clock, but we can alter our clock's rate. Once we have changed our clock, it is no longer synchronized with the first clock.

1b. There could be clocks not associated with the clock we were originally bound to.

2b. We cannot tell where the original clock started, possibly in another universe.
But our proper clock (The one we are bound to)
started 13.7 +- a billion years ago.

Understanding these things makes the question where did time come from irrelevant. But for posterity understand time is a dimensional
quality that always existed in any instance requiring a clock.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#96158 Aug 6, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
You are dead wrong time cannot be stopped. There are black holes all over the universe but yet here I am experiencing Time. That's either weird or the two of you are wrong.
I'm guessing that later.
Yes, time is local. It is not the same everywhere.

You were given two examples of how time could be stopped. Did you not understand them or are you just a denying idiot?

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#96159 Aug 6, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
WRONG. Time cannot be stopped.
If time stopped all matter, space, and energy would stop existing.
Clearly that isn't the truth.
The evidence says if time stops the clock simply quits ticking.
If time stopped on a universal scale, we wouldn't even have ever known it. But we can alter the ticks of clocks within the original
clock that started 13.7 bya.

Your question should be is the original clock, within another clock, or are there other clocks ? We simply cannot answer that.
But there most likely is. But more importantly ask the question
of whether we can detect the presence of a previous clock.
It maybe possible, and we maybe able to do this soon, with the Webb telescope after it gets in position and looks back toward the beginning.

Level 1

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#96160 Aug 6, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>No the questions are....
1. "Does time even exist?"
2. "Does time exist beyond human perception?"

1a. As a inseparable and intertwined property of this universe.

2. I think it does but humans are limited to a single perception of it, where clearly there is a dimensional quality we struggle to comprehend. We are physically bound to a single clock, but we can alter our clock's rate. Once we have changed our clock, it is no longer synchronized with the first clock.

1b. There could be clocks not associated with the clock we were originally bound to.

2b. We cannot tell where the original clock started, possibly in another universe.
But our proper clock (The one we are bound to)
started 13.7 +- a billion years ago.

Understanding these things makes the question where did time come from irrelevant. But for posterity understand time is a dimensional
quality that always existed in any instance requiring a clock.
1) yes
2) at this time we can not say for sure
1a) yes
2b) a guess

"Understanding these things makes the question where did time come from irrelevant."

WRONG.

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